Pre-Paint or not Pre-Paint, that is the Question . . . . .

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Im not going to get into a long protracted debate here, I have plenty of experience - and you doubt me.

That doesn't make me wrong, that simply means you choose not to believe me.

I know what I write to be correct, you don't agree - its as simple as that.

Anyway, PM sent.

 

[katadder]

I have to say I have seen this to be the case anyway, comic shops are where you get your toys (CMGs) and wargaming shops for proper minis. as for the person who said battletech was a CMG - how dare you? how very dare you? its a mini game, the CMG is that crappy wizkids mechwarrior.

 

[Gauntlet-]

I'm trying to be respectful and will conitnue with PMs. And Its not that I dont believe you, youre reacting emotionally because its related to your credentials which are no doubt important to you and I understand.

but honestly

"I know what I write to be correct, you don't agree- its as simple as that"

Is about the most arrogant and intellectually wrong response you can give. Its essentially how a father says to his son "You cant go outside to play because I said so"

It shows your unwilling to compromise, it shows your uninterested in different points of view, and generally speaking its a bad argument.

You really shouldn't feel insulted Im not trying to insult you, Im trying to appeal to you to use more reasoning and less authority in debate. Your essentially yelling down opposing views without due consideration.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Is about the most arrogant and intellectually wrong response you can give.

So, any individual who speaks from experience - is arrogant?

I know thats not what you meant, BUT thats how it comes across.

 

[Billy Bunter]

I don't post often, I tend to 'ghost' these forums and steal the best ideas Lol!

With regards to the Lieutenant, he does have a lot of experience - and (even though he is sometimes wrong - passionate people sometimes are) he DOES have a lot of experience in retail.

The problem with most big companies, is they don't listen to the Staff that actually deals with the public (I know from working in HMV) - and can get their marketing catestrophically wrong as a consequence!

Whilst the Lt. cannot prove to anyone who doesn't particularly want to believe him. You really should give him the benefit of the doubt, as he talks to a LOT of folks (both online and in person) about our Hobby.

 

[Gauntlet-]

no saying that you know your right because you 'are' is dismissive and arrogant.

Speaking from experience helps a real argument, but you are using your experience as an argument unto itself which just isn't proper.

~ Whatever lets stop derailing the thread I admit I began it.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

even though he is sometimes wrong - passionate people sometimes are

No I'm not

 

[Gauntlet-]

I didn't Say he was wrong...

Hell if he was wrong I'd have to like... enjoy pre-painted models or something terrible. But I'll argue about how one argues till we are all blue in the face. We don't have to though. Then you might somehow force me to like pre-paints.



On a different note I had a conversation with my GF recently about the whole pre-paint thing. The way we saw it seems to have become circular... I mean originally war games started with bad toys with the same poses and painted full green or whatever, then they had color you could paint them with... slowly the poses opened up more (1st ed WH40K... my god) and now we have allot of variety and such, now we are heading towards losing the allot of posing options and losing the painting freedom, and back to the 'toy'.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I have to say I have seen this to be the case anyway, comic shops are where you get your toys (CMGs) and wargaming shops for proper minis. as for the person who said battletech was a CMG - how dare you? how very dare you? its a mini game, the CMG is that crappy wizkids mechwarrior.

Mechwarrior wasn't that bad a game - especially Age of Destruction's revisions. Shame it fell foul of power creep and pretty much died shortly thereafter.

Classic BattleTech is much better though

 

[BuShips]

Classic BattleTech is much better though

Common ground? :lol:

 

[Aniyn]

I'm going to have to say that if the prices for SST evo are the same as BFE it's going to crash and burn. I finally saw some of the stuff on my last trip down to Vancouver and all I could think was "That's one TINY little tank for $30." I think the biggest issue mongoose needs to address is the prices. Besides, the whole prepaint thing still seems like a bit of a fad to me.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Classic BattleTech is much better though

Common ground? :lol:

something like that - I've been playing CBT for 18 years or so!

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

The decision to turn S&P to .pdf, IMHO, was ill-advised.

An interesting analysis overall, but I have to pick you up on this one. Turning S&P into a PDF was one of the smartest moves we ever made.

As a print magazine, we topped around 3,000 readers maximum. As a PDF, we clear 65,000 every month, and that number is increasing, month on month.

Our problem with S&P is that we do not currently leverage it enough (hours in the day) but, as a base line, it is extremely well positioned.

Hi Matt:

Thanks for the comment! I'll be sending you a long e-mail: I'll try not to be boring if you promise to try not to fall asleep! :lol:

Regards,

Scipio

 

[lt.harper]

you know, im not to happy about pre paints. i mean wheres the fun in that?

 

[BuShips]

you know, im not to happy about pre paints. i mean wheres the fun in that?

If you are a hobbyist as well as a gamer, obviously "no fun at all."
There are two distinct elements to the tabletop war-gaming hobby, however. Those that are primarily gamers and those that are both modelers as well as gamers.

The theory goes that there are a lot more gamers out there to tap into as customers that would buy a pre-painted set of game pieces that are staying away currently. This would be due to the assembly and painting time that is necessary to field a nice looking set of figures.

Also, if you are having a hard time finding players of the games that you are interesting in, you might see an expansion of the player base if a game system was already finished "in the box" and ready for play. The hobbyist would then focus his efforts more on terrain construction and personalization of his PPMs.

This will either become a paradigm shift in our hobby or a failed (and costly) experiment. Time will tell, but as a hobbyist I'm betting that it is a future trend. Mongoose is on the front lines as it were with this and as we all know the troops at the front lines have a risk of getting wounded (or worse). I'll say one thing here about Mongoose. They are not without bravery. :wink: The thing about success is that it is not attained without risk. The future will tell us if Mongoose becomes a casualty on the battlefield or wins the day.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

This will either become a paradigm shift in our hobby or a failed (and costly) experiment. Time will tell, but as a hobbyist I'm betting that it is a future trend. Mongoose is on the front lines as it were with this and as we all know the troops at the front lines have a risk of getting wounded (or worse). I'll say one thing here about Mongoose. They are not without bravery. :wink: The thing about success is that it is not attained without risk. The future will tell us if Mongoose becomes a casualty on the battlefield or wins the day.

Unfortunatley, the majority of the public just don't but into the idea of playing with 'Toy Soldiers'.

The idea that you can 'temp' loads of comsumers into playing Table Top games by shifting to pre-painted is naive at best!

Wargaming (even with pre-painted Soldiers) requires effort, a playing area, scenery, and opponent. Too much effort for most people.

Much easier to plug in the X-Box and 'Wargame' that way . . . . . . . .

 

[lt.harper]

I know, most teens in my aria play videogames over "toy soldiers".My moms freeked out that im hanging out with adolt players.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

I know, most teens in my aria play videogames over "toy soldiers".My moms freeked out that im hanging out with adolt players.

A common problem tbh.

 

[Galatea]

If you are a hobbyist as well as a gamer, obviously "no fun at all."
There are two distinct elements to the tabletop war-gaming hobby, however. Those that are primarily gamers and those that are both modelers as well as gamers.

Yes there may be two ways of hobbyists - but it's a one-way street.
PPP-users (Clixplayers etc.) may get into wargaming, but almost no wargamer will get into prepainteds.
So you have to create a whole new market - and I don't think that market does exist.

I know, most teens in my aria play videogames over "toy soldiers".My moms freeked out that im hanging out with adolt players.

If I am looking at most teens I don't think you're doing too wrong...

 

[BuShips]

Unfortunatley, the majority of the public just don't but into the idea of playing with 'Toy Soldiers'.

The idea that you can 'temp' loads of comsumers into playing Table Top games by shifting to pre-painted is naive at best!

Wargaming (even with pre-painted Soldiers) requires effort, a playing area, scenery, and opponent. Too much effort for most people.

Much easier to plug in the X-Box and 'Wargame' that way . . . . . . . .

I do not disagree with that assessment. Thinking that this is the way it might go is not the same as wanting it to go that way. :wink: As I had said, I'm from the "hobby" faction.