Potential errata required to CoG1

[Blackyinkin]

Hi All,

Okay, I got my PDF of Cults of Glorantha...

Total comments, Nice Art, Too Many Errors to mention. I will use those bits and pieces that are salvageable, but until a very in depth and much needed errata is put in place I will go to Simon Phipp's site and use the magic from his Heroquest to Runequest conversions and have a load of fun...

Anyone who thinks this product doesn't need an errata should hang their heads in shame, the mistakes are unforgivable.

Simon

 

[Voriof]

Why is Yelmalio listed as part of the Orlanthi pantheon... okay he shows up in a couple of the myths, getting his ass whooped at the Hill of Gold... but so does Zorak Zoran...
Damn foreign God who diverted a bunch of splitters into worshipping him...

Er.... where is he listed as being partof the Orlanthi pantheon? He's sort of half-way between both. But I'm not really interested in the Elmal/Yelmalio debate.

Jeff

 

[Adept]

I don't have the rules, so I can't make up a MRQ spell

Here we go again. :roll:

Jeff

Excuse me?

Exactly what in what I actually wrote was so bad / silly that it gave you the moral high ground do dismiss it like that?

Not very nice...

 

[Voriof]

I don't have the rules, so I can't make up a MRQ spell

Here we go again. :roll:

Jeff

Excuse me?

Exactly what in what I actually wrote was so bad / silly that it gave you the moral high ground do dismiss it like that?

Not very nice...

I suppose not, but I am forced to recall many discussions in the past on other lists where you were quite happy to cause considerable flames and be highly critical of publications without actually having actually read the material you were slamming. And, I suppose, making spells for a game you don't have the rules for struck me as more of the same.

Hence my comment. I am sorry if it offended but... that sort of behavior really bothers me.

Jeff

 

[ninthcouncil]

Here we go again. :roll:

Jeff

Excuse me?

Exactly what in what I actually wrote was so bad / silly that it gave you the moral high ground do dismiss it like that?

Not very nice...

I suppose not, but I am forced to recall many discussions in the past on other lists where you were quite happy to cause considerable flames and be highly critical of publications without actually having actually read the material you were slamming. And, I suppose, making spells for a game you don't have the rules for struck me as more of the same.

Hence my comment. I am sorry if it offended but... that sort of behavior really bothers me.

Jeff

Adept, since you are posting here, I'm led to conclude you have a computer and internet access. So the SRD is available to you, and you won't even have to send any money in the direction of those evil heretics at Mongoose.

What's the worst thing that could happen? :wink:

 

[Exubae]

Anyone who thinks this product doesn't need an errata should hang their heads in shame, the mistakes are unforgivable.

I hand a potter around the Tavern http://tavern.zunder.org.uk/tav/index.php, apparently the dudes are expected to proof and edit 150 pages per days...

I can see why things slip through/get missed if this is the case... Kinda feels sorry for the editor/proofer (and see why they're a little edgy when critised.)...
That rate is really mad.

 

[Coleoptra]

Anyone who thinks this product doesn't need an errata should hang their heads in shame, the mistakes are unforgivable.

I hand a potter around the Tavern http://tavern.zunder.org.uk/tav/index.php, apparently the dudes are expected to proof and edit 150 pages per days...

I can see why things slip through/get missed if this is the case... Kinda feels sorry for the editor/proofer (and see why they're a little edgy when critised.)...
That rate is really mad.

I hope the editor use more time than that for the Gloranthan books, though looking at what happened to Cults 1 I'm not totally sure.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

I hope Cutter & Stitcher use more time than that for the Gloranthan books, though looking at what happened to Cults 1 I'm not totally sure.

RPGnet has a rule. It's okay to attack people's ideas and people's work, but not people themselves. This is not RPGnet. The moderation here is much, much lighter. Anyone with more than a few hundred posts under their belt over there will tell you that.

But it's still a good rule of thumb to follow.

Rag on the editing all you want. But drop the Cutter & Stitcher thing, Trif. It's mean and it's petty. If you've got a grievance and you simply have to repeat it over and over again, try and do it without using insulting nicknames.

 

[Coleoptra]

On and on with the RPGnet thing. I found the analogy quite fitting, but to make you Mongoose guys happy I've edited it away. And yeah, I do have a grievance with the poor editing, because it is clearly the main hinder from making MRQ the great game it has the potential to be.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

On and on with the RPGnet thing. I found the analogy quite fitting, but to make you Mongoose guys happy I've edited it away. And yeah, I do have a grievance with the poor editing, because it is clearly the main hinder from making MRQ the great game it has the potential to be.

You're allowed your grievances, dude. I'd be a right butthead to say you didn't.

 

[soltakss]

Hi All,

Okay, I got my PDF of Cults of Glorantha...

Total comments, Nice Art, Too Many Errors to mention. I will use those bits and pieces that are salvageable, but until a very in depth and much needed errata is put in place I will go to Simon Phipp's site and use the magic from his Heroquest to Runequest conversions and have a load of fun...

To be honest, I'd hope that the Mongoose stuff would make that redundant. I'd much rather see the cults in print with RQM spells.

Anyone who thinks this product doesn't need an errata should hang their heads in shame, the mistakes are unforgivable.

Well, it's not that bad, despite any comments here.

There are several types of errors:
1. Spells/Skills that are listed in cults but not described.
2. Spells/Skills that cults had in previous versions of RQ but they don't seem to have.
3. Spells/Skills which cults are implied to have but don't have in their descriptions.
4. Spells that have been desribed but are woefully imbalanced, either too powerful for their cost or too weak for their cost.
5. Incorrect designations of cults, incorrect runes for cults.

So, for people buying RQ for the first time, 1 and 3 are important, the others aren't.

For people who know a lot about Glorantha, 2 and 5 are important.

For people who like well balanced games, 4 is important.

Actually, 2, 4 and 5 may not be errors. They may be wrong, but wrong for a reason. Although giving Buserian the Air Rune is hard to explain.

It looks as though editing/poor checking may have been the culprit for 1 and 3. Possibly 2 and 5 may have been caused by not knowing the old spells/cults or by editing. 4 looks like it was caused by converting spells from RQ2/3 to RQM, either converting badly or by not understanding the conversion process or how the spells would be balanced with other Divine Magic or Runic Magic.

Unlike HeroQuest, RuneQuest has always had a heirarchy of magic types. Divine Magic is more powerful than Sorcery which is more powerful than Spirit Magic. RQM seems to think that Runic Magic, the equivalent to the old Spirit Magic, is more powerful than the rest. So, Divine Spells have been rejigged to be the equivalent of Runic Spells, which is a mistake in my opinion.

Anyway, I'll try and go through Cults of Glorantha with a fine toothcomb and see what things I can pick out of it that are problems. There probably aren't actually that many.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Im not super worried about skills or a few spells being different. There's a couple hundred years between this and the third age, so things might change.

Spells that dont make sense at all, is a different issue though.

Since I havent read it yet, I guess my question at this point is:


Can I buy this book, open it, sit down and play with it ?

The errors we are talking about, are they the kind that makes it broken (i.e. rules that plain dont work, spell lists with spells that dont exist etc) or are they the "this was different in Cults of Prax (f.x.)" kind of errors ?

Whats the balance between the two ?

 

[soltakss]

Can I buy this book, open it, sit down and play with it ?

Yes, absolutely. No question or argument about it.

The errors we are talking about, are they the kind that makes it broken (i.e. rules that plain dont work, spell lists with spells that dont exist etc) or are they the "this was different in Cults of Prax (f.x.)" kind of errors ?

There are some spell lists with spells that are not desribed, but not many.

There are also spells that cults used to get in RQ2/3 but don't get in RQM.

There are also some spells that you'd think cults would get but they don't.

Whats the balance between the two ?

Not many of any of them to be honest.

Don't get the impression that the book is riddled with errors, because it isn't.

However, there are both hard and soft errors.

It's still worth buying though.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Rag on the editing all you want. But drop the Cutter & Stitcher thing, Trif. It's mean and it's petty. If you've got a grievance and you simply have to repeat it over and over again, try and do it without using insulting nicknames.

This is obviously a perception thing. I don't think "Cutter & Stitcher" is an insulting nicname at all. I thought it was both apt and amusing...

 

[richaje]

Total comments, Nice Art, Too Many Errors to mention. I will use those bits and pieces that are salvageable, but until a very in depth and much needed errata is put in place I will go to Simon Phipp's site and use the magic from his Heroquest to Runequest conversions and have a load of fun...

I largely agree with Simon's comments. As someone who has been very involved with the development of the Orlanth cult over the years, I immediately turned to that cult and its associates to start seeing how the pieces were put together. The plus side - Jeff did a very good job of emphasizing the tripartite nature of the big O. I was also glad to see Barntar in print. All in all I think it is a general better Gloranthan product than the old RQ3 Gods of Glorantha (and certainly better than Gods of Prax).

Some nitpicks just on the Orlanth cult. These are all just my comments and opinions:
Barntar ishould be an associated cult of Orlanth (heck, every few years Greg and I seem to go around and around as to whether Barntar is really just another aspect of Orlanth) and should give his father some spell (probably Command Bull to Adventurous and Command Ram to Thunderous or something like that).
Elmal should be an associated cult to Orlanth the Leader, as should Lankhor Mhy.
Orlanth is an associated cult to Ernalda Allmother and Ernalda the Queen and should provide a divine spell to each (a different one, I think). Ernalda should probably only give Earthweight to Adventurous (and Dragonslayer) and probably should give a different spell to Orlanth the Leader and to Orlanth the Thunderous (my suggestion would be Regal Aura) .
I am a bit confused the disappearance of Esrola (but she is not really an adventurers cult so maybe she was just dropped - but she should give Ernalda something).
Odayla ought to provide Orlanth Adventurous with something.
Lankor Mhy really should have some sort of Cite Law spell (which is provided to Orlanth the Leader).
Issaries should probably provide Orlanth the Leader with Silvertongue.
Chalana Arroy ought to provide something.

I know this is nit-picking but it will help people tremendously in making the Orlanthi cultures of Ralios, Peloria, Dragon Pass and Kethaela work correctly. Again, these are just my quick observations and comments.

Jeff

 

[Adept]

Adept, since you are posting here, I'm led to conclude you have a computer and internet access. So the SRD is available to you, and you won't even have to send any money in the direction of those evil heretics at Mongoose.

What's the worst thing that could happen? :wink:

I have that.

What I meant to convay, is that I'm an expert at MRQ, nor do I intend to become one. The subject that I commented / suggested on (about Elmal's fire magic) didn't really need an expert knowledge of MRQ for it to be valid though.

I put the disclaimer in the beginning since I don't think I know enough of the game balance of MRQ to judge how much damage and what spell magnitude are the best fit.

***

I wonder why these forums are so acidic and hostile? People seem to assume the worst motives for posters, and respond in a surly or angry manner way too often. (not referring to the quouted post above)

 

[Voriof]

I know this is nit-picking but it will help people tremendously in making the Orlanthi cultures of Ralios, Peloria, Dragon Pass and Kethaela work correctly. Again, these are just my quick observations and comments.

Jeff

Most of the problems with the cult associations happened due to changes in the spell lists and changes to the main rules set and the companion while CoG was being written. After reading over MRQ and Companion, I really, really wouldn't have wanted to do the editing required. The rules set I was working with was significantly different than the one published.

That said, many of the lost spells resulted in lost associations. I will try and put those back in the errata.

Oh, and Esrola is just another grain goddess. She's listed there and provides (I think) Ernalda with association. I miss having the Herd Goddesses in the book though.

Jeff

 

[Voriof]

I wonder why these forums are so acidic and hostile? People seem to assume the worst motives for posters, and respond in a surly or angry manner way too often. (not referring to the quouted post above)

Considering past experiences with being on the recieving end of your posting behavior for the several years, I find this statement highly ironic.

Voriof

 

[richaje]

Most of the problems with the cult associations happened due to changes in the spell lists and changes to the main rules set and the companion while CoG was being written. After reading over MRQ and Companion, I really, really wouldn't have wanted to do the editing required. The rules set I was working with was significantly different than the one published.

That said, many of the lost spells resulted in lost associations. I will try and put those back in the errata.

Oh, and Esrola is just another grain goddess. She's listed there and provides (I think) Ernalda with association. I miss having the Herd Goddesses in the book though.

I could certainly imagine the fun of doing this while working with a moving target of rules. Did you have a copy of Enclosure #1 handy when you put this together? David Dunham and I went through that exercise of updating the Orlanthi cults for a RQish rules system back in 1997. Although if we were to do it again, we certainly make a few changes, the basic writeup is still good.

Jeff

 

[Voriof]

Most of the problems with the cult associations happened due to changes in the spell lists and changes to the main rules set and the companion while CoG was being written. After reading over MRQ and Companion, I really, really wouldn't have wanted to do the editing required. The rules set I was working with was significantly different than the one published.

That said, many of the lost spells resulted in lost associations. I will try and put those back in the errata.

Oh, and Esrola is just another grain goddess. She's listed there and provides (I think) Ernalda with association. I miss having the Herd Goddesses in the book though.

I could certainly imagine the fun of doing this while working with a moving target of rules. Did you have a copy of Enclosure #1 handy when you put this together? David Dunham and I went through that exercise of updating the Orlanthi cults for a RQish rules system back in 1997. Although if we were to do it again, we certainly make a few changes, the basic writeup is still good.

Jeff

Yes, though it was more useful for things like Shargash. As I went from South Carolina to Turkey to Maine and then back to South Carolina, I hauled along 40+ lbs of references.

As to the fine-grained level of associations one poster wants - such things must be left for long-desc cults. The level of granularity is somewhat more than that provided by, say, Gods of Glorantha but less than that of the Cult Compendium. Something must be sacrificed to brevity and space concerns. I could happily fill 2-3 more books with cults and the like but that's just not in the cards, I think. There's a lot of room for expansion in the work I have done, particularly in the East and South.

Jeff