Possible new Hyborian age campaign.....What system to use...
- Thread starter Enlightened
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Enlightened
Mongoose
And I have decided that no one single version of a Conan RPG is going to match every single gamer's idea of what it should be.seanbickford said:
The game you described may be perfect for you, but it wouldn't necessarily be perfect for everyone.
seanbickford
Mongoose
Krushnak said:
Huh. I guess I am reading a different forum than you. Because where I'm sitting, this thread seems to be a wonderfully constructive criticism of the limitations of d20 where almost nobody is defending it. I guess I haven't seen this tireless crusade fighting for d20 on the rest of the forum.
seanbickford
Mongoose
Enlightened said:
I tend to agree. How each GM runs the game will reflect the type of game mechanics that they prefer. However, if the fundamental system is too flawed, I believe that it can effect gameplay negatively; and house rules can be like a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.
Etepete
Mongoose
I was brought up as a BRP player originally, and never had the patience to learn all the (superfluous) intricacies of D20, which is one of the reasons why my once great Conan Pirates campaign stalled and died.
I recently stumbled on a forum where they're skimming down d20 to the bare essentials. Immediately inspired, I started to convert their system to Conan d20. I think that the result is a more accessible, playable and malleable version of Conan rules that retain many of the d20 mechanics.
The rules can be found here: http://www.freewebs.com/peterlarsson/MicroConan.pdf
The system is discussed here: http://forum.microlite20.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102
I recently stumbled on a forum where they're skimming down d20 to the bare essentials. Immediately inspired, I started to convert their system to Conan d20. I think that the result is a more accessible, playable and malleable version of Conan rules that retain many of the d20 mechanics.
The rules can be found here: http://www.freewebs.com/peterlarsson/MicroConan.pdf
The system is discussed here: http://forum.microlite20.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
seanbickford said:
I like d20 and OGL. I see no point in defending it as the issue mostly revolves around personal taste. My group probably would not play Conan the Roleplaying Game if it were not OGL material.
No matter what system is chosen, a rather vocal group will always insist another system would have been better - and a rather silent group will shrug their shoulders and game on.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
I am not sure about that. There are plenty of systems which work perfectly well with different building mechanisms for PCs and NPCs, yet they "interface" with each other in a more or less seamless way. The problem is building NPCs with their use in mind. If I need a goon, I do not need to completely stat him out; for example, in the Conan Compendium, the adventure "The God in the Bowl" literally wastes pages and pages on the stats for the guards, which are supposed to only make an appearance, if at all. I converted those stat blocks to AD&D, and I got away with just one line of stats, with the same net end effect. This is one of the things that the 4e designers finally realised actually worked in previous systems, and there was no need to change it in the first place (what the hell is one supposed to do with a 20th level commoner class?!)Hervé said:
Style said:
I absolutely do believe that SW is the BEST system for any kind of pulp game. The minions go down in one or two swings of the sword and the big bad guys are as tough as the heroes.
Conan is PULP fantasy and in my opinion the game system should reflect that. Now, I admit I have not played Conan, but that is because I'm not terribly fond of d20/OGL games because the combat is too ponderous and there are just way to many unnecessary feats, skills, spells, etc.
Mike
I must say that sales figures for the various rpg systems would tend to contradict this bold statement.
I'll merely reiterate that I'm no huge d20 fan myself but I think Conan d20 does a decent enough job for the setting.
I don't actualy find d20 combat very time consuming compared to most other systems (many of which use opposed rolls which often slow things down a bit themselves). It can take a bit of time to resolve but so long as players are interested I don't find length of time to resolve combats a big problem in any system.
mwhite212 said:
Yeah, that happens in d20/OGL Conan as well. There are a couple of multi-classed Barbarian/Soldiers wielding greatswords in my game. Pair that with the Power Attack feat and they're forcing Massive Damage saves on a good percentage of their opponents. Of course the sword swings both ways and the PCs have had to make Massive Damage saves themselves. Combat in d20/OGL Conan can be quick and deadly with players that know their characters abilities. It slows when there are many opponents (had one game with 40 combatants that took an entire game session to complete) or when the players don't know what their characters can do. I try to keep things moving by giving a player a 6 count to make their move or lose their turn. YMMV
And you don't need to be a 2h power attacker either (though that is probably the simplest way of achieving it). A thief with decent Bluff and Improved Feint is easily capable of dropping most foes quickly as is any Zingaran or Aquilonian fencer who puts a Feat or three into Fencer's Finesse and Master Fencer.
If most 'disposable' baddies are 3rd level or less, they tend to have about 20 hps or less (usually less). One or two swings will tend to drop them.
The latter is certainly a problem. It took us a wee while to get to grips with the various manoeuvers and how they could be combined with each other and/or Feats. But now we have all the necessary info on our character sheets in case of senior moments but can generally proceed without much, if any, reference to what options are available.
I'd add that a GM who is uncertain as to what Feat/Manoeuver combos do will slow things down quite a lot more than a single player will, especially if running more than a few foes.
But using the Players Roll All the Dice principle (which was suggested on these boards somewhere) helps quite a bit. As does only having 2 pcs to worry about - a benefit of a small gaming group.
If most 'disposable' baddies are 3rd level or less, they tend to have about 20 hps or less (usually less). One or two swings will tend to drop them.
The latter is certainly a problem. It took us a wee while to get to grips with the various manoeuvers and how they could be combined with each other and/or Feats. But now we have all the necessary info on our character sheets in case of senior moments but can generally proceed without much, if any, reference to what options are available.
I'd add that a GM who is uncertain as to what Feat/Manoeuver combos do will slow things down quite a lot more than a single player will, especially if running more than a few foes.
But using the Players Roll All the Dice principle (which was suggested on these boards somewhere) helps quite a bit. As does only having 2 pcs to worry about - a benefit of a small gaming group.
I guess you are. But you might be surprised how few people find it an interesting topic.
D20 Conan is a system that a number of people really enjoy. And others do not. You do not. This does not mean that Conan d20 is a bad system, it means it doesn't suit your personal tastes. It suits mine just fine.
See this? Calling oneself "Enlightened" is a dangerous choice, but this right here is evidence that this guy is getting away with it!
No. I've never played FATE.
Vincent wrote:
Exactly what I've said before: most of the D20 defenders are D20 players BEFORE being Conan players. Hence the lack of objectivity when reviewing the rules.
I want to play Conan games, not conan flavored D&D games. I hadn't anything against d20 rules when I started to run the game. My experience with them just showed it didn't fit our gaming group's vision of hyborian gaming. These rules were designed for power playing and munchkinisation, never for RP...
Exactly what I've said before: most of the D20 defenders are D20 players BEFORE being Conan players. Hence the lack of objectivity when reviewing the rules.
I want to play Conan games, not conan flavored D&D games. I hadn't anything against d20 rules when I started to run the game. My experience with them just showed it didn't fit our gaming group's vision of hyborian gaming. These rules were designed for power playing and munchkinisation, never for RP...
KemperBoyd
Mongoose
Hervé said:
D20 Conan was actually the first time I ever played D20 games, and for me it's worked out. One big thing is of course that the players have the correct attitude towards the game.
Hi all.
Regardless of what could be done better, D20 does everything we want. Players get the range and depth of characters they like, and I get to ignore everything I don’t (miniatures rules) without the system falling apart.
Could another rule system do this better? I would hope so, but I never would have got the players to the table if it hadn’t been a D20 game to begin with. This is not proof of a good system, but we shouldn’t be too dismissive of the enjoyment it brings either just because the rules are familiar. Right now, it makes sense from a marketing point of view to publish using the Open Game Licence. Fear not, this will inevitably change.
Would Conan be as much fun if it used another system? As mentioned above, it largely depends on the gaming style and the people at the table, but we did try Gurps with Conan years ago and it was not as popular as Conan D20.
In future, I expect Mongoose will move away from the current OGL. I think the safest bet would be to tweak Conan to use the Paizo license used in Pathfinder.
The Star Wars Saga edition rules are fantastic, but would need a complete re-write for Conan and it may not translate well. I was hoping D&D 4th Edition would bring the Star Wars Saga edition rules to fantasy, but it did not suit our gaming style.
Inventing a unique rule system from scratch for Conan would be a big job, and I think it would be risky (for game balance as well as the financial aspect). Good luck to anybody bold enough to try.
Hervé could be right about everything, but we’d still prefer to play Conan using Conan D20. It probably isn’t the best, but it is the most popular system we use and that's what counts.
Cheers,
Brisco.
Regardless of what could be done better, D20 does everything we want. Players get the range and depth of characters they like, and I get to ignore everything I don’t (miniatures rules) without the system falling apart.
Could another rule system do this better? I would hope so, but I never would have got the players to the table if it hadn’t been a D20 game to begin with. This is not proof of a good system, but we shouldn’t be too dismissive of the enjoyment it brings either just because the rules are familiar. Right now, it makes sense from a marketing point of view to publish using the Open Game Licence. Fear not, this will inevitably change.
Would Conan be as much fun if it used another system? As mentioned above, it largely depends on the gaming style and the people at the table, but we did try Gurps with Conan years ago and it was not as popular as Conan D20.
In future, I expect Mongoose will move away from the current OGL. I think the safest bet would be to tweak Conan to use the Paizo license used in Pathfinder.
The Star Wars Saga edition rules are fantastic, but would need a complete re-write for Conan and it may not translate well. I was hoping D&D 4th Edition would bring the Star Wars Saga edition rules to fantasy, but it did not suit our gaming style.
Inventing a unique rule system from scratch for Conan would be a big job, and I think it would be risky (for game balance as well as the financial aspect). Good luck to anybody bold enough to try.
Hervé could be right about everything, but we’d still prefer to play Conan using Conan D20. It probably isn’t the best, but it is the most popular system we use and that's what counts.
Cheers,
Brisco.
Huh... not really. Defense is still passive in Conan when it is active in RQ.
In Conan, dodge and parry simply gives you two options for your AC: one STR based, the other DEX based. Basically it is still D&D with armor soaking damage.
In RQ you got a Parry or Dodge score you must roll under, just like a standard attack.