Possible new Hyborian age campaign.....What system to use...

[seanbickford]

Demetrio:

Where can I find out more about Cortex? Rather, what system using Cortex would be the best example of it?

 

[Demetrio]

Well Cortex seems to have undergone 3 incarnations in its short life. It was originally a vehicle for the Firefly RPG and it is probably best in a mildly heroic/gritty game with a modern/future setting.

The newest version of the rules is system-free, slicker and more logical (though with the usual balance issues) but the big problem is that combat just is not very melee friendly, you'd need some house ruling to make it fit Conan I think.

Personally I think the system allows far more character detail and subtelty (in terms of mechanics) than SW does at very little cost or no in terms of time taken to create characters. Perhaps if it were combined with the SW 'no hit points' approach it might work.

 

[seanbickford]

Well, further research into Savage Worlds has revealed that the "official" Conan version is not very official or Conan. It will be called Legends of Steel and seems to be pretty comic-booky. Might be good.

I wish some Mongoosian would do a fleshed out Savage Worlds (or similarly oriented) setting with all the amazing sourcebook material that Mongoose is known for.

SW(ish)+Conan RPG-d20+REH fanboy authenticity+nice art+nice maps = Conan 4.0

At least that's my vote

 

[seanbickford]

Well, further research into Savage Worlds has revealed that the "official" Conan version is not very official or Conan. It will be called Legends of Steel and seems to be pretty comic-booky. Might be good.

I wish some Mongoosian would do a fleshed out Savage Worlds (or similarly oriented) setting with all the amazing sourcebook material that Mongoose is known for.

SW(ish)+Conan RPG-d20+REH fanboy authenticity+nice art+nice maps = Conan 4.0

At least that's my vote

 

[Ichabod]

And then feats are easy unless one is trying to create an npc who whose specific purpose is to neuter a specific PC when feats might need some thought. But that, to my mind, is an abuse of GM knowledge/power. NPCs might well be tough but they should not be solely created to exploit PC weakness.

Funny, I think this is exactly what GMs should do. It makes heroes more heroic and more well-rounded when they can't rely on the same strategies all of the time; it's de rigeuer for comicbook superheroes to have nemeses or enemies who prepared for their powers. And, it's not like having a NPC who interacts randomly with a PC is preferable - do you really want a NPC that a PC can walk over just because the NPC wasn't designed with the PC's abilities in mind?

 

[Da Boss]

maybe, maybe not - depends on if the NPCs know who they are up against - I'll put some people in who make it more if a challenge now and then if it seems right to do so.

Having played a number of Savage Worlds games (we found it uninspiring system, counterintuative, terrible for making characters at basic levels, and basically a cut down version of the far better Deadlands system)

Just don't see the appeal :? - although apparently Kane is better.

 

[Demetrio]

do you really want a NPC that a PC can walk over just because the NPC wasn't designed with the PC's abilities in mind?

Well usually if I'm generating a powerful npc (ie one who will challange the characters, I just come up with a concept (say unarmed fighter) and make a powerful version of that concept. Some pcs will stuggle against him, others will perhaps have a bit of an advantage. I find giving the party a variety of foes encourages a rounded approach by the players. But if a player has super-specialised, I think deliberately exploiting the weaknesses of that specialisation is artificially putting him at a disadvantage.

Suppose a character has a very low will save because of his class choices and lack of Wisdom. If I create an npc who is optimised to exploit that low Will, the poor player is being victimised, in my view. There are plenty of times when his low Will will be a problem for him without deliberately setting out to exacerbate his flaws.

Countering player strengths is a bit different. If a player has a Finesse fighter with high Bluff, beefing a key npc's Sense Motive might be fair enough. But even then there are limits. The chap should have a chance of playing to his strengths in the key fight after all.

 

[warzen]

Does anyone seriously stat out every npc fully?

Every d20 company, MGP included.
Nearly a third of "Trial of Blood" is used by stats.

Why on earth would one need to?

Good question ! And the correct answer is "we don't need it".
WoC realized it as you can see in the Monster Manual, 4th edition.

W.

 

[kintire]

I was not impressed by the Serenity system: too fiddly with all the different dice.

you might want to try FUDGE. Thats a quick simple system, and its easily customiseable to any level of granularity you like.

 

[warzen]

you might want to try FUDGE. Thats a quick simple system, and its easily customiseable to any level of granularity you like.

Fate, which is based on Fudge IIRC, could be also used.

Kintire, do you know the difference between those two systems ?

Thx,
W.

 

[Enlightened]

Fate, which is based on Fudge IIRC, could be also used.

In fact, I've actually used FATE to run Conan.

I was using the Spirit of the Century rules which use FATE 3.0 as the engine.

It works pretty well for Conan and my group liked it. Although, I can see that the system wouldn't appeal to everyone.

 

[Hervé]

Warzen wrote:

Every d20 company, MGP included.
Nearly a third of "Trial of Blood" is used by stats.

I have to agree with that. The same can be said about Thulsa's excellent Spider's God Bride. Roughly 150 pages of the 200 pages book are dedicated to the adventures, with a very clear layout a lots of (real nice) illustrations.
Now look at Thulsa's Conversion booklet for Conan: 66 full pages of stats blocks! If you remove the illustrations from the book, that makes about one page of numbers per two pages of text!

And some will keep on saying D20 is sooo simple...

 

[seanbickford]

Is there a system that falls between FATE 3.0 and Savage Worlds?

 

[Azgulor]

I've been feeling the Conan juices flowing in me lately and I've started thinking about starting up another Hyborian age campaign.

I have run it before two times. One time I used the Spirit of the Century rules (FATE3.0) and the second campaign was in Savage Worlds.

That was all before I started getting the Mongoose Conan books. Now that I have them (and am not yet fully sold on the system), I'm wondering what system to use for the campaign (should it get off the ground).

This time around, the options I've been considering are GURPS, Savage Worlds, Conan D20, and Hackmaster (modified of course).

In your opinion, what system does Conan best (or worst) and why?

I would just run the Conan D20 straight but, to tell the truth, I haven't heard good things about it (but then, I haven't personally tried it yet either).

Uh, Conan OGL. Duh.

It's my group's cat's meow of swords-n-sorcery systems.

 

[thelevitator]

I'm nearly finished with my FUDGE-based S&S game. I had originally started it as ConanD20 FUDGE clone, but then I felt like it would be better if I didn't just copy another system.

It's got a pretty crunchy combat system that still only requires a single opposed roll for each round of actions.

Here are some of the highlights of the combat system:

Simultaneous Round combat
Armor as Damage Resistance
Weapon Speed, Reach and Parry
Special Maneuvers (similar to Conan)
Non-linear Wound system
Gridless movement

The magic system is similar to the Sorcery system in ConanD20, in that one of the sources of magic is Demons. Basically, magic is obtained through either Gods, Demons or Spirits. Magic uses a process called Channeling, and the "stuff" of magic is called Focus, or Foci. Magic takes longer to cast than D&D. The default of most spells is a minute, while rituals take at least an hour (some rituals can take a month). Magic is very draining and unstable, but very powerful. As a point of reference, levitating a set of jail keys off a table and into your hand would be a trivial spell in D&D, but would require a fair amount of effort and is not an automatic spell.

I'm calling the game "Blood, Sweat & Steel". If anyone is interested in taking a peek at it, I have it in PDF format. I've also created an editable character sheet and character creation guide PDF as well. Just PM me here with an email address.

At this point, the PDF is just information; there's been no layout or artwork yet. I do have an artist interested in helping me create art for it.

I'm doing my best not to just convert the Mongoose Conan from D20 to FUDGE, but rather use it as inspiration to create a solid Sword & Sorcery game.

We also get together 1-2 times a week to playtest, primarily running one-shots to kick the tires and fine tune things a bit. I'd love to get some Conan veterans to sit in and take a peek. We use Skype for voice chat and MapTools as our virtual tabletop.

 

[thulsa]

The same can be said about Thulsa's excellent Spider's God Bride. Roughly 150 pages of the 200 pages book are dedicated to the adventures, with a very clear layout a lots of (real nice) illustrations.
Now look at Thulsa's Conversion booklet for Conan: 66 full pages of stats blocks! If you remove the illustrations from the book, that makes about one page of numbers per two pages of text!

And some will keep on saying D20 is sooo simple...

Note that the stat blocks in the main book use a very condensed stat block format compared to the Conversion Booklet, so you can't really use the latter as the basis to count pages in the former.

Compare, for example, this:

Othbanes, master embalmer and corrupt priest, male Susrahnite Sor4: CR 4; SZ M; HD 4d4+8; hp 18; Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 15 (+0 no armor, +1 Dex, +4 mage armor), touch 15 (+1 Dex, +4 mage armor), flat-footed 10 (+0 no armor); BAB/Grapple +2/+3; Atk +5 melee (1d4+1, curved dagger, 18-20/x2); SA +1 racial bonus to attack rolls with all weapons, Spells; SQ +2 racial bonus to Appraise and Knowledge (religion) skills, Sinister Presence; AL N; SV Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +6; Str 12, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10.
Skills: Bluff +7, Concentration +9, Heal +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Profession (embalmer) +9, Spellcraft +9, Use Magic Device +7. Feats: Acolyte, Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative (b), Spell Focus (necromancy).
Arcane Spells Known (Spells per day: 4/3/2; Spell DC 10 + spell level +2 Int): 0 — disrupt undead, prestidigitation, resistance; 1st — chill touch, mage armor, scare; 2nd — command undead, death knell, ghoul touch.
Languages: Susrahnite, Lamuran, Yar-Ammonite.

To this:

Othbanes, Master Embalmer
Male Meadow-Shemite Scholar 4
Hit Dice: 4d6+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +3 (+2 Dex, +1 Ref)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
DV (Dodge): 14 (+1 base, +2 Dex, +1 Dodge)
DV (Parry): 12 (+1 base, +1 Str)
DR: 0 (no armor)
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4 (+3 base, +1 Str)
Attack: Staff +5 (+3 base, +2 Dex) melee (2d4+1, 20/x2, AP 1, finesse, reach 10 ft.)
Full Attack: Staff +5 (+3 base, +2 Dex) melee (2d4+1, 20/x2, AP 1, finesse, reach 10 ft.)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: +1 racial bonus to attack rolls with any bow, +1 circumstance bonus to damage rolls with bows against targets within one range increment, +1 circumstance bonus to damage rolls when performing coup de grace attacks.
Special Qualities: +2 racial bonus to Appraise, Spot and Bluff checks, +1 circumstance bonus to all Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Survival and Spot checks in any plains environment, wield Shemite bows as martial weapons instead of exotic weapons, -1 racial penalty to all saves, +2 racial bonus to all Diplomacy checks, New Sorcery Style, Scholar, Background, Base Power Points, Knowledge Is Power, +1 Power Point, New Sorcery Style, Advanced Spell, Advanced Spell, New Sorcery Style.
Saves: Fort +1 (+1 base, +1 Con, -1 racial), Ref +2 (+1 base, +2 Dex, -1 racial), Will +3 (+4 base, +0 Will, -1 racial)
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Skills: Concentration +8 (7 ranks, +1 Con), Craft (alchemy) +7 (7 ranks, +0 Int), Craft (herbalism) +7 (7 ranks, +0 Int), Heal +7 (7 ranks, +0 Wis), Intimidate +9 (7 ranks, +2 Cha), Knowledge (religion) +7 (7 ranks, +0 Int), Move Silently +9 (7 ranks, +2 Dex), Profession (embalmer) +7 (7 ranks, +0 Wis).
Background Skills: Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Ride.
Feats: Dodge, Ritual Sacrifice.
Magical Attack Bonus: +4 (+2 base, +2 Cha)
Base/Max Power Points: 5/10 (base 4, +0 Wis, +1 class)
Sorcery Styles and Spells: Necromancy (Raise Corpse), Oriental Magic (Calm of the Adept), Prestidigitation (Conjuring).
Corruption: 2
Languages: Shemitish, Stygian, Kothic, Argossean.

Note that the Conversion Booklet includes the math behind the numbers (skill ranks, base saving throws and attack bonuses, etc.). The Conversion Booklet also uses a slightly bigger font size, which of course increases the page count.

So the adventure-to-stats ratio in the main book is probably much higher (in favor of adventure text) than you suggest.

- thulsa

 

[Hervé]

Yes I guess I was maybe a little subjective. But anyways, stat blocks always take an awful amount of space in D20 adventures. For me, your conversion booklet is true Titan's work. It would have taken me a life to do this.

 

[thulsa]

Yes I guess I was maybe a little subjective. But anyways, stat blocks always take an awful amount of space in D20 adventures. For me, your conversion booklet is true Titan's work. It would have taken me a life to do this.

Just to be clear, I do agree with you that the d20 System is a bit heavy on the number-crunching.

In particular, the skill system is a bit of a pain. I've long considered simplifying it by combining several skills and doing away with skill points (just base the skill level on the character's level and class). It seems a lot of people have house-rules similar to this already.

However, if one is writing for publication, one needs to stick more or less to the rules as written. Unless I can come up with a simplified approach that is more or less backwards-compatible with the existing system.

- thulsa

 

[Enlightened]

Well, I've made my decision about which system to use.

And the winner is.........True20.

It was a close race with Savage Worlds, but a re-read of the True20 Warrior's Handbook won me over.

I had been thinking of just running Mongoose Conan D20 straight, but upon reading the classes closer, I felt like I would prefer a more generic character creation system.

 

[seanbickford]

I've been thinking. I have now read all of FATE 3.0, Star Wars Saga, and Savage World rules, and still doing research on True20 and RQ. My ultimate conclusion is that d20 is completely lame and completely unsuited to Conan RPG. I have also decided that the only entirely suitable system for Conan will be one that has been custom tailored to fit the style of REH's world.

Mongoose: pay attention to this thread. Almost nobody likes d20 and very few even attempt to defend its shortcomings. There is so much awesome stuff in the Mongoose Conan books--can't there be a system that is equally as awesome?

A) Simplify the rules. B) Make it Conan. C) Do it right.

A) Consolidate skills (SW Saga), simplify combat (SW, F3), balance feats (SW), eliminate insane HP (F3, SW).

B) Enhance maneuvers (F3, SW), expand foreshadowing (F3), fix magic (CoC), allow heroic battles while balancing realism, add specific REH rules (drinking effects, for one). Throw off the constraints of d20!

C) Bring back color (!), get consistent art (Planescape), make sure it is a quality binding, compile Mongoose's (excellent) sourcebooks, pay for a good map, double check the authenticity, and for Pete's sake check the spelling.

Please?