Please Explain Double/Triple Turrets & Starship Combat

[dayriff]

I'm not quite sure how double and triple turrets are supposed to work. I see about three ways it can go:

1. A gunner fire all the weapons on the turret in a single combat round. (making a separate check for each one, I assume.)

2. You can fire all the weapons in a turret in a single combat round, but you need a separate gunner for each one.

3. Each combat round you get to choose which of the weapons in a turret to fire.

Basically, let's say that you had a triple turret with two missile launchers and a pulse laser. Does that mean that the ship can fire off two missiles every round from the turret and then use the pulse laser for point defense? Or if you fire off the missiles offensively, are you then stuck using the laser offensively too because each turret can only fire once per round?

Double and triple turrets really seem like a huge advantage for any ship. Are they supposed to be that way?

Also, I want to make sure I'm doing damage right. Say someone has fired a missile with a gunner check of 10. Now the missile needs to succeed by 7+ to hit. So I roll 2d6 for the missile, and get a result of 12, succeeding by 5. I then roll 1d6+5 (the effect) for damage and subtract the ship's armor, and that gives me the damage, which I then take to the table to figure out how many single or double hits it does.

Is all of that right?

 

[Old timer]

In the games i run, the gunner only needs to make one roll to hit with weapons in his turret, if they are firing at the same target. If a turret has different weapons, like the example you give of two missile and a pulse laser, the missiles could fire at the target, and the pulse laser used either offensively or in point defense.
The damage of weapons, as written in the space combat section, make no mention of including the effect of the roll to increase damage, but i personally do add the effect to the damage of weapons in space combat.
Hope this helps.

 

[AndrewW]

1. A gunner fire all the weapons on the turret in a single combat round. (making a separate check for each one, I assume.)

2. You can fire all the weapons in a turret in a single combat round, but you need a separate gunner for each one.

3. Each combat round you get to choose which of the weapons in a turret to fire.

A gunner may fire any or all of the weapons in his turret or bay but each turret or bay may only fire once per round."

Also, I want to make sure I'm doing damage right. Say someone has fired a missile with a gunner check of 10. Now the missile needs to succeed by 7+ to hit. So I roll 2d6 for the missile, and get a result of 12, succeeding by 5. I then roll 1d6+5 (the effect) for damage and subtract the ship's armor, and that gives me the damage, which I then take to the table to figure out how many single or double hits it does.

Is all of that right?

There is no mention of adding the effect of the roll to damage for starship damage.

 

[dayriff]

There is no mention of adding the effect of the roll to damage for starship damage.

No, there isn't. Does that mean we aren't supposed to do so, or does it mean they just forgot to mention it?

From the perspective of folks who have run a lot of starship combat, which works better? It seems like not adding Effect could make ships with good armor nearly invulnerable against ordinary missiles and pulse lasers. Does the game run better if that is the case?

 

[dreamingbadger]

I play it that way as a house rule

 

[Mawdrigen]

Additional question then:

Currently I'm reading the above as:

A Gunner can fire all of the weapons in a turret once per turn making a roll for each weapon.

Does the Once per turn mean if I attack with the Beam Laser I cannot then use it in point defence? I suspect this to be the case.

Also if you do not roll seperately for each weapon do you roll seperately for each TYPE of weapon e.g in a 2 missile 1 beam laser turret I'd roll once for the missiles and once for the beam laser?

 

[AndrewW]

Does the Once per turn mean if I attack with the Beam Laser I cannot then use it in point defence? I suspect this to be the case.

Correct, if being used in point defence you can't also use it offensively in the same turn.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I interpret that a gunner can fire all weapons, but I have him make rolls based on the types of weapons and the targets.

Example: Triple Turret with Missile, Missile, Beam Laser

1) Gunner can fire all three weapons at the same target. He makes 2 rolls, one for the missiles and one for the laser.

2) Gunner fires 1 missile at one target, 1 missile at another target and uses the Laser as Point Defense. Three rolls are made.

3) Gunner fires 1 missile at one target and 1 missile and the laser at a second target. Gunner makes 3 rolls.

BEFORE rolling, the gunner may state that he wants to roll each weapon separately. I let him. This comes up when all the weapons in a turret are the same type. The Gunner can roll 1 time and it is all or nothing to hit with 3 weapons or he can roll some combination to hope that at least one of them hits. It is gunners choice on that one.

 

[Mawdrigen]

Thanks that's very helpful

Another question... anyone used the adding effect to the damage in a game and if so how did it affect combat.. I'm Erring towards it (the players ship has armour 6 and it seems unusual that they can fly through a flight of missiles and not worry about it) but wouldn't mind a opinion from someone using it.

 

[Treebore]

Its been a while since I read through the ship combat rules, but I seem to remember that hits decrease armor even if they do nothing else, so that follow up hits are more and more likely to punch through. Confirmation of in/accuracy?

 

[dayriff]

Its been a while since I read through the ship combat rules, but I seem to remember that hits decrease armor even if they do nothing else, so that follow up hits are more and more likely to punch through. Confirmation of in/accuracy?

Some hits will decrease armor, but it depends on what you roll on the table. However, at least one point of damage has to get through before you roll on the hits table in the first place, so Armor 6 or better will essentailly make you immune to ordinary missiles.

I too am increasingly inclined to let Effect add to damage the more I think about it.

 

[apoc527]

I haven't actually, y'know, played MGT yet, but in a few mock space battles I did alone, I noticed that allowing Effect to add to damage makes space combat WAAAAAAAAAAAY more interesting. The extra threat makes everything work better I think. When I play for real, I will use this rule.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Actually I thought the difference was in the size and damage these turrets were. The thripple turret could be a combo laser, sandcaster, and/or missile turret...thus being a much larger turret as well. Or it could be a tripple laser turret or etc. Also is it can either be a surface mounted turret, or a pop-up turret, that once again has size issues as well too.

There are many different variables, along with tech, armor, weaons types and so on. It all depends on the GM's point of view and desire for what fits in his own campaign. I once I designed out a System Defense Boat, that was twice the standard size of the normal version that had more armor, turrets and jump drive. It packed quite a surprise to the players with all it's fun upgraded system.

be creative and do what you want to do, it is all in fun and create a challenge for your gamers.

Penn

 

[BP]

...Some hits will decrease armor, but it depends on what you roll on the table. However, at least one point of damage has to get through before you roll on the hits table in the first place, so Armor 6 or better will essentailly make you immune to ordinary missiles.

I too am increasingly inclined to let Effect add to damage the more I think about it.

I like the fact that cheap, low tech, ordinary missiles (and pulse lasers) can be effectively neutralized by armour. Modern tanks can do this very thing - basically sit and be pelted by powerful, but otherwise ineffective weapons without blinking... and not all tanks - just the ones built to do so.

If this wasn't the case - smaller ships would just load up on missles and wail away at military and capital ships... taking out billion credit fleets with a lot less investment.

Nuclear missles and heavy anti-ship missles (torpedos in HG) then balance this out. (Just as speciallized 'high-tech' anti-tank weapons exist at higher cost in the RW). And armour costs not just credits - but quite a bit of valuable ship tonnage.

As for the Effect - for missles - the effect (I assume this refers to Gunnery Check) is already used in determining the accuracy of the hit - and it doesn't seem that skill should affect the destructive capability of the weapon.

One exception to this might be regarding multiple simultaneous hits - but the odds are very, very small. The missles would fairly have to be glued and detonated together - more likely they would reduce their effectiveness - one nuetralizing the other when it explodes milli-seconds before the other can. So maybe on an Exceptional Success when that is what was intended - with damage adding together, minus, say the number of missles squared. (I would also subtract the number of missles squared if this was intended, but the Effect was marginal.)

 

[apoc527]

For missiles, here's what I say:

When you roll to hit initially, your Effect determines what the missile needs to actually cause damage. On the second roll to cause damage, you still get Effect based on what you needed to hit (it's sloppier, but you could also convert the lower to-hit numbers to DMs). This represents how close the missile got to the ship when it finally exploded. Or something.

 

[Mawdrigen]

Incidentally I've been running the "adding effect" as being a TASK add so 1-5 adds 1 and 6+ adds 2 (I think not got my books here) it means that against a 6 armour ship a beam laser/missile is still unlikely to get through unless they get very lucky and even if they do it'll be a single hit. If the ship sticks sand in the way they have to be VERY lucky to produce damage.

That's not to say damage doesn't occur. My players are now in a mad (simulated) scramble to grab the other ships and Siphon off their fuel so they can escape

Also what do people think about making Particle beams acessible to trading vessels?

 

[SSWarlock]

Also what do people think about making Particle beams acessible to trading vessels?

For me, particle beam weaponry is a "military-only" weapon system because of the radiation side effects. Or at least the owner had better have a darn good reason to have one and be able to provide at a moment's notice all the current paperwork required by the Imperium.

 

[Mawdrigen]

Ah should point out two things.

My traveller sertting is not otu, and the two major powers are at war and quite happy to raid each others shipping.

 

[SSWarlock]

Ah should point out two things.

My traveller sertting is not otu, and the two major powers are at war and quite happy to raid each others shipping.

Fun!

Well then..I've found that while radiation tends to put a crimp on the sale of "salvaged" ship components, the use of a friend's nuclear damper may help boost resale value.

And a very high yield Particle Beam Weapons System is not only an invaluable tool when entering negotiations but can also do wonders for relieving the stress of a target-rich environment.

 

[BP]

...And a very high yield Particle Beam Weapons System is not only an invaluable tool when entering negotiations but can also do wonders for relieving the stress of a target-rich environment.

Taken from the Korben Dallas School of Negotiation? :lol: