Playtest Rules Space Stations
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
Burger said:The heavy guns do seem a bit too good for smaller stations.
When it is released expect Burger's Space Station Warehouse to follow shortly
Thats the point i was "trying" to raise. I can see campaigns were lots of small space staion are bought. So the effectively become laser platforms. A bit cheesy, i think limits are needed.
Cheers for the corrections with the other questions, I must have missed the bit about like for like merging.
The Shadow Cloud was always mobile in the show.
I definitely wouldn't want them moving any faster. 4" puts it in the same speed category as a Bin'Tak. I was thinking of having speeds based on the size of the Station, but that didn't feel right, so I went with the idea of the drives taking up a varying amount of Hardpoints.
As to slowing down with damage, how about: The first threshold Halves the Speed, the second threshold will immobilise it.
CZuschlag said:
The Shadow Cloud was always mobile in the show.
I definitely wouldn't want them moving any faster. 4" puts it in the same speed category as a Bin'Tak. I was thinking of having speeds based on the size of the Station, but that didn't feel right, so I went with the idea of the drives taking up a varying amount of Hardpoints.
As to slowing down with damage, how about: The first threshold Halves the Speed, the second threshold will immobilise it.
Burger said:When it is released expect Burger's Space Station Warehouse to follow shortly
Well, that answers that question. Excellent
No. 1 Bear said:
You can still only have one Space Station per Strategic target though, which limits it a bit.
In a campaign when a Strategic Target with a Station near it is captured the Station changes ownership too. Are there going to be rules on how you can replace modules with ones you prefer? Or is it forever stuck with the original owner's choice of modules? What about Race Specific modules under someone elses control, for example will the Abbai use Drazi Barracks effectively?
There are no rules to cover how much it costs to enlarge a Space Station while a campaign is in progress. If you capture a Patrol level station how much does it cost to upgrade it to Skirmish or above, and how long does this take?
Finally I would like to see rules for aiming at and destroying/disabling individual station modules in a battle, but I'm guessing that is too in depth for ACtA?
N
noobdelux
Guest
test (not played)
Centauri Patrol Space station:
Hull 4
Damage 90/45/10
Troops 4
anti fighter 2, immobile, ints 2, space station
armour module 2 hard points
double the damage
((rules exploiter notice, should read base starting damage ))
or else somone would add this module last giving it an exeptional damage score out of this world
matter cannon module 1 hard point
matter cannon 21 3 ap,dd
test 2
EA battle station
hull 4
Damage 270/185/80
troops 30
antifighter 5, ints 8
armour module 5 hard points
double armour
habitation module 1 hard point
30/15/10
military academy module
10/5/0
3*heavy laser modules
30/15/0
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
Centauri Patrol Space station:
Hull 4
Damage 90/45/10
Troops 4
anti fighter 2, immobile, ints 2, space station
armour module 2 hard points
double the damage
((rules exploiter notice, should read base starting damage ))
or else somone would add this module last giving it an exeptional damage score out of this world
matter cannon module 1 hard point
matter cannon 21 3 ap,dd
test 2
EA battle station
hull 4
Damage 270/185/80
troops 30
antifighter 5, ints 8
armour module 5 hard points
double armour
habitation module 1 hard point
30/15/10
military academy module
10/5/0
3*heavy laser modules
30/15/0
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
heavy laser cannon 45 6 beam dd
Have i missed a bit or are the Mimbari the only race that can upgrade it's AF to AAF?
Surely the Vorlons and Shadows should have this by default being ancients and all! (Same as the Bio-tech module should be by default!)
The shadows get The Bio-Tech module giving it self repair and the shield module giving it shields (doh!)
ok fine by me makes there stations very much like there ships!
The vorlons get the Bio-tech module.
So the shadows get an advantage over the vorlons, wheres the module to give them the Adaptive Armour to make them balance out against the shadows shields???
Surely the Vorlons and Shadows should have this by default being ancients and all! (Same as the Bio-tech module should be by default!)
The shadows get The Bio-Tech module giving it self repair and the shield module giving it shields (doh!)
ok fine by me makes there stations very much like there ships!
The vorlons get the Bio-tech module.
So the shadows get an advantage over the vorlons, wheres the module to give them the Adaptive Armour to make them balance out against the shadows shields???
Comments:
1) Since ships are now bought as if they were members of a specific fleet, do they gain ANY of that fleet's default special rules?
I'm advocating no - example being a centauri station with about a billion interceptors and the escort trait. Guardian Arrays rule would make that rather unpleasant...
2) If EA are "Masters of intercepting incoming enemy fire" then why are they so bad at it?
EA Interceptor Module (interceptors 5) 3 Hardpoints
Point Defence Module (interceptors 2) 1 Hardpoint
meaning that if you just used interceptor systems that fell off the back of a truck somewhere you'll get a 6-to-5 advantage and three times the hit point bonus. Narn Hardened modules have this right.
3) EA advanced hangar module - would be nice to see a Black Omega flight for Psi Corps only. Unsure about shadowfuries but convincable.
4) Gaim Intelligence Royal Module has the Hangar Module flavour text
5) ISA Advanced Hangar Module - presumably 'starfuries' includes thunderbolts. Use same text as Hangar module to clarify - although god alone knows why you'd pick 4 starfuries over 4 white star fighters. Should they be in there at all?
6) Support Vorlons getting advanced point defence module and an adaptive armour module. Shadows probably deserve advanced point defence too.
Oh - and are these stations in addition to the normal types? Because if you're deleting the 'targets' trait, what happens to the Raiders Secret Base released in the same set of documents?
1) Since ships are now bought as if they were members of a specific fleet, do they gain ANY of that fleet's default special rules?
I'm advocating no - example being a centauri station with about a billion interceptors and the escort trait. Guardian Arrays rule would make that rather unpleasant...
2) If EA are "Masters of intercepting incoming enemy fire" then why are they so bad at it?
EA Interceptor Module (interceptors 5) 3 Hardpoints
Point Defence Module (interceptors 2) 1 Hardpoint
meaning that if you just used interceptor systems that fell off the back of a truck somewhere you'll get a 6-to-5 advantage and three times the hit point bonus. Narn Hardened modules have this right.
3) EA advanced hangar module - would be nice to see a Black Omega flight for Psi Corps only. Unsure about shadowfuries but convincable.
4) Gaim Intelligence Royal Module has the Hangar Module flavour text
5) ISA Advanced Hangar Module - presumably 'starfuries' includes thunderbolts. Use same text as Hangar module to clarify - although god alone knows why you'd pick 4 starfuries over 4 white star fighters. Should they be in there at all?
6) Support Vorlons getting advanced point defence module and an adaptive armour module. Shadows probably deserve advanced point defence too.
Oh - and are these stations in addition to the normal types? Because if you're deleting the 'targets' trait, what happens to the Raiders Secret Base released in the same set of documents?
locarno24 said:
I'd just stumbled across this one too. Centauri station with a Traffic Protection Module.
Also:
How does the Shadow and Vorlon repairing criticals supersede the Stations repairing of criticals rules?
Would it be worth adding the Barracks module to those avaialable in the Gaim list.
Gaim Module:
Breeding Chamber - Generates 1D6 RR for replacing Crew.
Would it be wise increasing the number of Breaching Pods available with the barracks.
Instead of removing the RR 'rent' for a space station, how about basing the rent on the PL of the station. They repair pretty much for free and the bonuses of Carrier, Spacedocks etc are pretty good.
Can some of the weapons be reduced/limited by PL (call them Small or Large or something), otherwise you can create absolutly monstrous, small stations, e.g.
Minbari Way Station (patrol)
Hull 4
Damage 40/20/10
Troops 4
Hardpoints 3 [Neutron Laser Module]
Antifighter 2, Immobile, Interceptors 2, Space Station.
Neutron Laser 36" 6AD T Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Yup, thats near the main firepower of a Sharlin for a Patrol slot.
The Orion Station is actually built off 12 Hardpoints, when the Boarder Station comes with 10.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
We toned down the number of hardpoints on the smaller stations - it looks like the example of the Orion hasn't been changed.
N
noobdelux
Guest
maybe loose a point of hardpoint so you have to choose more?
lastbesthope
Mongoose
HEre's what I cam up with after I read the Space Station rules:
Campaign regeneration of Damage: The wording here seems a little unclear.
Do you repair up to the next Damage Threshold, or repair a number of points
equal to the value of the next Damage Threshold?
On the top of the 2nd page, in the bullet point listing of special rules for
attacking stations there is a typo "Space Stationm Critical Hits", the 'm'
shouldn't be there.
Space Station Armour Module: Does the doubling effect of this module take
place after the effects on Damage Scores of all the other modules, or does
it only double the basic core Damage score? Also, does adding 2 Armour
modules quadruple the damage score?
(Advanced) Hangar Modules: Do multiple Carrier scores from multiple Hangar
Modules stack, e.g. 2 Hangar Modules grants Carrier 8?
War Room Module: There is no maximum number of War Room modules listed, so
does adding multiple War Room modules give multiple bonuses to Campaign Turn
initiative, e.g 2 war Rooms grants +2 initiative bonus in Campaign turns?
Brakiri Shifter Module: Typo, it states "Each Graviton Module" this should
be shifter. Maybe you should check the stats for this module and it's core
bonuses are correct as this is likely a copy and paste error.
Example Space Stations: They are all missing the Carrier trait.
Upgraded Babylon 5 Station: It is a little confusing to call this "Babylon 5
Battle Station" when it is based on a Star Fortress core and not a Battle
Station core. Confusing nomenclature.
LBH
Campaign regeneration of Damage: The wording here seems a little unclear.
Do you repair up to the next Damage Threshold, or repair a number of points
equal to the value of the next Damage Threshold?
On the top of the 2nd page, in the bullet point listing of special rules for
attacking stations there is a typo "Space Stationm Critical Hits", the 'm'
shouldn't be there.
Space Station Armour Module: Does the doubling effect of this module take
place after the effects on Damage Scores of all the other modules, or does
it only double the basic core Damage score? Also, does adding 2 Armour
modules quadruple the damage score?
(Advanced) Hangar Modules: Do multiple Carrier scores from multiple Hangar
Modules stack, e.g. 2 Hangar Modules grants Carrier 8?
War Room Module: There is no maximum number of War Room modules listed, so
does adding multiple War Room modules give multiple bonuses to Campaign Turn
initiative, e.g 2 war Rooms grants +2 initiative bonus in Campaign turns?
Brakiri Shifter Module: Typo, it states "Each Graviton Module" this should
be shifter. Maybe you should check the stats for this module and it's core
bonuses are correct as this is likely a copy and paste error.
Example Space Stations: They are all missing the Carrier trait.
Upgraded Babylon 5 Station: It is a little confusing to call this "Babylon 5
Battle Station" when it is based on a Star Fortress core and not a Battle
Station core. Confusing nomenclature.
LBH
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Where are the super lasers?
How can I have a fully armed and operational Battle Station without a super laser?
How can I have a fully armed and operational Battle Station without a super laser?
N
noobdelux
Guest
is this too much?
Drakh Battle station (battle)
Hull 4
Damage 210/105/35
Troops 30
Antifighter 5 ints 8
1 med bay
1 space module
4* Neutron cannon 30 t 5 beam dd precise
Drakh Battle station (battle)
Hull 4
Damage 210/105/35
Troops 30
Antifighter 5 ints 8
1 med bay
1 space module
4* Neutron cannon 30 t 5 beam dd precise
True, but even at hull 4, 40 hit points with interceptors 2 isn't exactly fragile.
Orbital defences should be nasty, but that's verging on filth. Admittedly you can only have one, but in a 5 point patrol priority game, a station like that isn't going to blow apart a ship a turn.
Starting question for playtesters; how 'ard should a station be relative to a ship of the same size?
Range should obviously be good because that is needed on a static emplacement.
Stations take damage normally. Admittedly they don't get destroyed, but the damage to disble them should surely be reflective of the damage capacity of a ship of the same size.
Half again - fair enough, they can't run away.
Double? Maybe.
Four or five times? No.
Active defences, the same.
Firepower....bear in mind that everything's turreted. A station under the old rules had a so-so amount of firepower but would be hitting 3-4 targets a turn, which made them good interceptor-breakers and good at crowd control. These will pick one ship and blow the crud out of it with vastly superior firepower to anything of comparable priority level.
Heavy Weapons:
Just looking at the minbari modules, a patrol station with a fusion module is fine, maybe a fraction undergunned against light targets (a common problem with mini-beam weapons)
The neutron laser module, however, has a sevenfold increase in firepower for only half again the space. Since both sides ignore interceptors and armour, the argument about 'different weapons for different targets' really doesn't apply!
A patrol station with a Nial Hangar Module and a Fusion cannon battery seems fine. Or with stealth and a fusion cannon. But as soon as the Neutron lasers poke their nose in, you get something horrific.
Just limiting the heavy weapons modules by size doesn't seem to do that much either because the ability to pack as many as you like on big ships doesn't make them any more balanced.
E.G.:
Shaidakka Orbital Gun Platform
Battle station
Armour Module
Habitation Module
3 x Neutron Laser Modules
Hull 5
Damage 360/180/80
Anti-Fighter 5, Interceptors 8
Neutron Laser - 36" - 6 AD - Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Neutron Laser - 36" - 6 AD - Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Neutron Laser - 36" - 6 AD - Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Yes, it's a battle point, but eighteen neutron lasers? three hundred and sixty bloody hit points? If stations don't take D6 damage per hit anymore and you can't permanently disable weapons....hell, you've got to do a hundred and eighty damage - almost enough to waste a victory class destroyer - to put it past its first threshold.
Other observation on minbari modules - Stealth modules should be size-dependant, like armour modules. It's infinitely easier (and more logical) to hide a small listening post than the primary orbital docking hub of the federation, and a 4+ stealth is worth more on a bigger core.
Ditto for GEG systems for drakh stations.
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
The amount of AD stations can throw out is crazy. But remember you can fit one of those netron lasers to a patrol ship!
Rereading through the Space Station rules i've come accross an oddity, under Space station Critical Hits table number 3 "station-keeping thrusters damaged" effect is "station moves 1 " towards nearest planet or table edge"
OK nice idea we see it happen to the B5 station in an episode!
But in game terms??
point 1: a space station is immobile has the trait to prove it. SO how can it move 1" when it cant move???
point 2: is it did move i can see in some very rare game especially on high level stations where they could potentionaly move off of the table or into the planet. If it moves into the plaent there are no rules for it going BOOM! and same for what would happen if it moved off of the table!
To limit the amount of weaponry that could be placed upon a station, most of the smaller stations have no real design in having lots of weaponry upon them where as the 2 top level station cores do have the potential to be a combat base of operations!
So i surgest this:
on Patrol lvl have 1 weapon module
on Skirmish lvl have 2 weapon modules
on Raid lvl have 3 weapon modules
on Battle lvl have 5 weapon modules
on War lvl have 7 weapon modules
This will at least limit some of the firepower from some races and not be an overwhellming wall of firepower which they are not intended to be!!
OK nice idea we see it happen to the B5 station in an episode!
But in game terms??
point 1: a space station is immobile has the trait to prove it. SO how can it move 1" when it cant move???
point 2: is it did move i can see in some very rare game especially on high level stations where they could potentionaly move off of the table or into the planet. If it moves into the plaent there are no rules for it going BOOM! and same for what would happen if it moved off of the table!
To limit the amount of weaponry that could be placed upon a station, most of the smaller stations have no real design in having lots of weaponry upon them where as the 2 top level station cores do have the potential to be a combat base of operations!
So i surgest this:
on Patrol lvl have 1 weapon module
on Skirmish lvl have 2 weapon modules
on Raid lvl have 3 weapon modules
on Battle lvl have 5 weapon modules
on War lvl have 7 weapon modules
This will at least limit some of the firepower from some races and not be an overwhellming wall of firepower which they are not intended to be!!
The Earth Alliance interceptor module, to give it a better result over a point defence module how about dropping the HP value to 2 instead of 3?
After having read the Hardened Module for the Narn
to say the least (+140/+70/+35 damage), another point which could be exploited to a max!!
I surgest limiting it to 1 on the Patrol, Skirmish and Raid lvl's 2 for Battle and 3 for War!
For the Vorlon: i am surgesting the following:
An Adaptive Armour Module for 4HP does the same as for ships
As they are the only race with out a small HP value weapon
36" Discharge Gun 5AD Beam, Precise, Double Damage
For the Vorlons and Shadows: A Point Defence System Module, change anti-fighter to Advanced Anti-fighter and give it +3 AAF and +10/+5/+0 amd remove all Interceptors from the core!
The Pak'ma'ra stations, being as they are usuers of other races tech how about allowing the 1 item of other races tech for a 2HP value?
Same for the Raiders allow them to use other race tech modules but allow them 2 items of modules not exceeding 2HP each?
just my thoughts if i get to try them out this week i'll post what happens!
After having read the Hardened Module for the Narn
to say the least (+140/+70/+35 damage), another point which could be exploited to a max!!I surgest limiting it to 1 on the Patrol, Skirmish and Raid lvl's 2 for Battle and 3 for War!
For the Vorlon: i am surgesting the following:
An Adaptive Armour Module for 4HP does the same as for ships
As they are the only race with out a small HP value weapon
36" Discharge Gun 5AD Beam, Precise, Double Damage
For the Vorlons and Shadows: A Point Defence System Module, change anti-fighter to Advanced Anti-fighter and give it +3 AAF and +10/+5/+0 amd remove all Interceptors from the core!
The Pak'ma'ra stations, being as they are usuers of other races tech how about allowing the 1 item of other races tech for a 2HP value?
Same for the Raiders allow them to use other race tech modules but allow them 2 items of modules not exceeding 2HP each?
just my thoughts if i get to try them out this week i'll post what happens!
Grunvald said:
It doesn't move 1", it is drawn towards the nearest gravity well when the thrusters go offline. Just because it can't choose to move doesn't mean it's fixed in place.
Though I agree some rules are needed to cover what happens if it strikes the planet or goes off the table. And the ramifications of both in a campaign; obviously crashing's going to be terminal but can a station that's drifted away be brought back?
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Also, once/if it repaired the thrusters, it would no doubt move to reestablish it's orbit.
LBH
LBH
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