kitsune106
Mongoose
Hmmm, I like that idea.
Playtest rules - Narn updates
- Thread starter Foxmeister
- Start date
Foxmeister
Mongoose
stepan.razin said:
Sorry, but when you get beyond a certain point those additional HPs make no difference whatsoever. Stopping hit (e.g. Interceptors, Shields, Dodge etc) is infinitely superior to a handful of extra DPs. It's very much like interceptors delivering diminishing returns once you get past about 4 - all those extra HPs mean nothing when you're critted into uselessness.
Generally speaking, a Ka'Bin'Tak is going to be rendered useless long before it gets even close to losing all it's HPs making them completely redundant for the most part.
Personally, I'm in favour of all large ships gaining some additional degree of protection from crits (not just Narn) because buying down already effectively buys you redundancy.
Regards,
Dave
the big narn ships like the KBT can go to all hands to deck quite happily though if its got multiple crits (unless one is the bridge which I am good at hitting) and then be ready to fight on next round at pretty much full strength.
also narn have all those frazis which can be used for interceptors too and is generally what I do with them due to not getting past most other peoples fighters.
also narn have all those frazis which can be used for interceptors too and is generally what I do with them due to not getting past most other peoples fighters.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
Well, it's actually about all they are useful for!
Regards,
Dave
Tzarevitch
Mongoose
An equivalent Narn fleet will out-fighter most opponents. They also hit pretty hard for such a cheap fighter.
Tzarevitch
Tzarevitch
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Actually Katader makes a very good point... The more HP you got, the more likely you can do all hands on deck to repair crits, and still be alive. In fact, doubling HP on all big ships, would probably help them to be more effective.
stepan.razin
Mongoose
skavendan said:
Have you ever played against them? I am against any Narn specific ctit mitigation... PERIOD. It should be given to all fleets.
Besides, take it easy dude, my previous point was meant to be somewhat of a joke, or at least half way. I thought I would suggest something somewhat different and slightly ridiculous.
But it does have a grain of truth since huge amount of HP does mitigate Crits in a game somewhat... does it remove the problem, NO! Are there any other ways of mitigating it better, YES, many.
You may not agree, and that fine, but roll 4 random crits, and apply them to a Varnic vs WS... tell me which one is better of.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I'd much rather see the Narn get upgrades to their secondary weapons, decent pulse batteries with either enough AD or traits like DD, so they can do damage without their dodgy beams, instead of some "toughness" nonsense. Where did this idea come from anyway? When do we see Narn ships sucking up damage and just coming on? They get mullered on-screen every time, they're no tougher than anyone else.
stepan.razin said:
Yes but only roll 2 crits Vs the Whitestar since it has dodge. and then half the damage for AA and if you wanted realism roll for CBDs
I take the fact you didn't answer the question as a no.
David it comes from canon about the referrences to narn warships being no fads only what they need basic quarters no xbox 360 or college classes or gym or pc rooms. Maybe we should put the narn incharge of british prisons!
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
What canon is that? I don't recall anything being said on-screen to that effect, except G'Kar talking about ripping out Centauri frills. Since the Centauri have more frills than anyone else, how does that mean the Narn have none?
The Narn seem to go for a tough mentality, brute survivors that outlast the opponent, but when you're talking about high-energy weapons in deep space just how much can you do with extra armour plates and bulkheads? Even in the real world you can't armour a unit past a certain point and you can usually make a weapon to beat that armour in one hit.
The Narn seem to go for a tough mentality, brute survivors that outlast the opponent, but when you're talking about high-energy weapons in deep space just how much can you do with extra armour plates and bulkheads? Even in the real world you can't armour a unit past a certain point and you can usually make a weapon to beat that armour in one hit.
so we were playing a 10 point raid towering inferno the other day
I ended up taking a GQuan and a GTal, hoping the random edge start would allow them to get close to something when they appeared
We used a single roll for squadrons instead of each ship appearing
well it did work they came in behind a crusader chronos, however between the 2 of them they took 2 turns to kill it, they were within 8 inches, then they never fired another shot all game(should of taken a gvrahn)
the chronos wasnt even CBD as it had AllSpeed to shoot at the back of 4 shokovs. I admit I rolled bad on the beams, but still I had 2 battle points of secondary weapons firing on this skirmish point
In anycase this game brought up 2 things, 1st the GQuan really really sucks
2nd the 2fer rule bites too, I normally squadron them in 4s anyways so enforcing squadroning of them didnt really bother me, but not being able to drop out if I need to is really annoying, fortunately my opponent was a nice guy and let me break and run with the one shokos that had 4 armour and 1 crew left(it managed to get out of range and tactilly withdraw)
then a lucky hit on my shokov squadron managed to adrfit one which it remained for the rest of the game until his Delphi finally managed to kill it 3 or 4 turns later. anyways under current playtest rules my other
ones would of had to circle to maintain squadron until he was destroyed, there by elimanting them as a fighting force for those turns
that rule has to change, im all for limiting ini sinks but dont nerf a ship just cause some people use it as a sink
as for the Gquan, dammit my shokos could of taken them, and no extra damage and crew doesnt help if you cant shoot back at anything firing at you, just takes a couple more turns for 2 shokos to kill it
so in light of this I propse a different change
GQuans and all variants come pre refitted with supeior helm control and long range targeting on all LPC and LIC as noted in campaign refits
with a standard CQ of 4 it would mean they had a 50% chance to do a ComeAbout bringing their main gun to bear, plus they could fire their secondaires out to a range of 12 for 1/2 AD, 10+6 to 8 or 5+3 to 12.
doesnt change the fact that the secondaries most likely wont do anything even if you do shoot them but atleast you get to shoot them once in a while
I ended up taking a GQuan and a GTal, hoping the random edge start would allow them to get close to something when they appeared
We used a single roll for squadrons instead of each ship appearing
well it did work they came in behind a crusader chronos, however between the 2 of them they took 2 turns to kill it, they were within 8 inches, then they never fired another shot all game(should of taken a gvrahn)
the chronos wasnt even CBD as it had AllSpeed to shoot at the back of 4 shokovs. I admit I rolled bad on the beams, but still I had 2 battle points of secondary weapons firing on this skirmish point
In anycase this game brought up 2 things, 1st the GQuan really really sucks
2nd the 2fer rule bites too, I normally squadron them in 4s anyways so enforcing squadroning of them didnt really bother me, but not being able to drop out if I need to is really annoying, fortunately my opponent was a nice guy and let me break and run with the one shokos that had 4 armour and 1 crew left(it managed to get out of range and tactilly withdraw)
then a lucky hit on my shokov squadron managed to adrfit one which it remained for the rest of the game until his Delphi finally managed to kill it 3 or 4 turns later. anyways under current playtest rules my other
ones would of had to circle to maintain squadron until he was destroyed, there by elimanting them as a fighting force for those turns
that rule has to change, im all for limiting ini sinks but dont nerf a ship just cause some people use it as a sink
as for the Gquan, dammit my shokos could of taken them, and no extra damage and crew doesnt help if you cant shoot back at anything firing at you, just takes a couple more turns for 2 shokos to kill it
so in light of this I propse a different change
GQuans and all variants come pre refitted with supeior helm control and long range targeting on all LPC and LIC as noted in campaign refits
with a standard CQ of 4 it would mean they had a 50% chance to do a ComeAbout bringing their main gun to bear, plus they could fire their secondaires out to a range of 12 for 1/2 AD, 10+6 to 8 or 5+3 to 12.
doesnt change the fact that the secondaries most likely wont do anything even if you do shoot them but atleast you get to shoot them once in a while
Foxmeister
Mongoose
stepan.razin said:
That's a bad argument I'm afraid. Of course the Var'Nic would fair better, but the WS is not going to get hit as often as the Var'Nic and if you don't hit, you can't crit! Active defenses (e.g. Stealth, Dodge, Interceptors) is just simply better than extra HPs. A Var'Nic with half the HPs and Dodge 4+ would almost always last longer than the current incarnation.
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Ike said:
It isn't that good 'cos it's boresight!
Regards,
Dave
