Playtest rules: Crusade era and 3rd age

[Grunvald]

The comment was surposed to show that if every fleet has uber amounts of e-mine effect weaponry, what would the point be in taking white-stars?

any hope of dodge gone!!!

Agree some fleets have to pur lots of heavy fire into them to kill them but isnt that the point of the white star fleet in the show!

Highly advanced ships capable to dish out and receive high amounts of fire power!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The comment was surposed to show that if every fleet has uber amounts of e-mine effect weaponry, what would the point be in taking white-stars?

any hope of dodge gone!!!

Agree some fleets have to pur lots of heavy fire into them to kill them but isnt that the point of the white star fleet in the show!

Highly advanced ships capable to dish out and receive high amounts of fire power!

Yes and no. They are highly advanced, they are capable of evading a lot of fire but the dodge trait in the game is very frustrating for the other player. Remember how people commented about stealth? Dodge is the same, it's annoying as all hell and White Stars are the worst of the lot. Not just a fighter flight evading death, it's a ship that can actually rip you a new one, dancing past your fire like you didn't even warm your barrels. It's bloody vile, I tell you.

 

[Grunvald]

I wont disagree!

Its a right pain in the ass, and when it comes down to 1 damage and 1 crew every time you get shot at is even more frustrating!!!

I always find it funny when the ship just drifts off the table with no crew left!!

 

[stepan.razin]

Same for the reason for having Dodge on a ship if every fleet has uber amounts of e-mine effect weaponry!

(waves bye bye to the white-stars )

Most races have no effective counter to White Stars but concentrating heavy firepower on them and hoping to see a lot of 1s on the dodge rolls. I can't see a Liati slaughtering White Stars; it might beat a couple but they'll soon kill it, and who else has a ship with accurate weapons to take them on?

Tell then to an ISA player who just fought the Drakh, Narn or mimbari.

If a Liati takes out a couple of WS and still survives wouldn't it indicate that WS are underpowered? By the way, the Drahk have accurate weapons.

 

[Da Boss]

The Liati is a great ship -esp considering its 1st ed incarnation when it was a PL too high.

It is very good against White Stars - both psycologically and in practice - the only problems I have had is with the crippled WS's skindancing my ship and "accidently" raming it........... :roll:

other good ships re WS- Most Gaim, Shadow Scout, certain narn emine ships, Drakh Raiders, Vree..............Ashinta on CBD

 

[Hindsight]

More proof that the game needs a complete balance pass, and not these small nudges up and down. I'd be happy to lose dodge and gain an appropriate amount of crew and damage, just so that then it is at least consistent and saves time in the game, I still get Adaptive Armor and can halve half the damage. Give me hull six or something in exchange so at least they have to roll high to hit me.

Problem solved, frustrations averted. I can see how having all these saves is frustration and if its an issue fine... make us harder to hit, and remove one of the possible saving throws.

My White Stars die left and right when I field them, but this game favors sit and shoot tactics, instead of dogfighting, so apparently I just play them wrong. I know that when I let them get close to anything, they're toast because enough dice still means a smoked star.

 

[Da Boss]

Personally I like Dodge much better than Stealth as its a reactive roll and at least the other player gets to fire his guns and try and hit you and then you ship attempts to dodge the fusilade - quite evocative.

If the Ws's are dying so quickly - what fleet are you facing - certain ones are good agains them - others much less so...... :?:

 

[l33tpenguin]

More proof that the game needs a complete balance pass, and not these small nudges up and down. I'd be happy to lose dodge and gain an appropriate amount of crew and damage, just so that then it is at least consistent and saves time in the game, I still get Adaptive Armor and can halve half the damage. Give me hull six or something in exchange so at least they have to roll high to hit me.

Problem solved, frustrations averted. I can see how having all these saves is frustration and if its an issue fine... make us harder to hit, and remove one of the possible saving throws.

My White Stars die left and right when I field them, but this game favors sit and shoot tactics, instead of dogfighting, so apparently I just play them wrong. I know that when I let them get close to anything, they're toast because enough dice still means a smoked star.

See what we mean by 'We get side tracked a lot' on these boards, HS?

I would personally rather see the White Star be built where it has to get into the thick of things. Shorten its range and make it bore (not necessarily those things) or whatever it takes to force players to push it into the fire, BUT give it the survivability to come through (in accordance with its PL, of course). I would love to see games where white stars were constantly ripping into my ships at point blank range, its what we see in the show, its how the WS is supposed to fight. Its a dog fighting frigate, that's what makes it so super cool.

Next game you play you should try sitting at max range with your (beautifully painted) WSs and beaming things from their blind spots.

 

[Cavalier1645]

Hi bin looking at the Fusion Missile got mixed feelings on it

The anti-ship variant got a very Narn Energy mine feeling too it. Can't see much use for it with Crusade Earth (with all the nasty Fighters and number fighters they can field), unless there fighting the Gaim. Would be great for early or even third age earth. I remember the Earth Force using a lot of nukes during the Earth-Minbari War.

The Anti-Planet verson is little more useful, but reminds of the Centauri Mass Drivers. Both ask for a safrice of anti-ship weaponry (Mass Drivers take away AD from Ion cannons, and the Fusion missile takes away from a missle rack. Still would rather have Mass Drivers because they are not one shot. It gives Crusade Era Earth more options, but a option not really worth the cost.

Love the Bonehead manuver
Putting the kamikaze back in the Earth Fleet (hard to pull off though..hehe)

 

[Methos5000]

Hi bin looking at the Fusion Missile got mixed feelings on it

The anti-ship variant got a very Narn Energy mine feeling too it. Can't see much use for it with Crusade Earth (with all the nasty Fighters and number fighters they can field), unless there fighting the Gaim. Would be great for early or even third age earth. I remember the Earth Force using a lot of nukes during the Earth-Minbari War.

The Anti-Planet verson is little more useful, but reminds of the Centauri Mass Drivers. Both ask for a safrice of anti-ship weaponry (Mass Drivers take away AD from Ion cannons, and the Fusion missile takes away from a missle rack. Still would rather have Mass Drivers because they are not one shot. It gives Crusade Era Earth more options, but a option not really worth the cost.

Love the Bonehead manuver
Putting the kamikaze back in the Earth Fleet (hard to pull off though..hehe)

Given that its an orbital bomb it actually better then mass drivers, you can opt to kill troops or emplacements on the planet.....from 30" away.

Though I'm not sure how a TD Orbital bomb works for killing troops, there has never been anything except single damage Orbital bombs before. Would it just roll against troops as normal or would it kill 3 troops per hit? It almost seems like it would be an exception to the rule as if its a large blast area/carpet bombing effect is seems it would be more useful against multiple troops then a focused beam or cannon. Has this been brought up before? I haven't read much about the Fusion Missiles, I just know there are the 2 variants - Anti-ship (ugh, more emines ) and the Anti-planet version.

 

[JTL109]

Chronos Attack Frigate:
...
Its the easiest ship to use, CBD and float around shooting. But I tend to agree, it doesn't need changing, its pretty good as is. The main weakness of Crusade, like the Vree, it has very few hit points, but there has to be a weakness.

-------
But unlike the Vree it is hull 6 vs hull 4, and has interceptors.
I have personally had the pleasure of having 5 Chronos stomp
4 Demos and 2 Kutai into the ground, I was the Centauri.
People complain that the Demos is broken, it would seem that
they do not really understand 'BROKEN' .

 

[Joe_Dracos]

this is what happens when you take a good raid level ship and knock it down to skirmish because it is designated a "Frigate", perhaps we should knock the Marathon down cause it has the distinction of being a "cruiser". After all the Marathon is supposed to be a replacement for the Hyperion... mind you the Warlock is also a destroyer... shouldn't it be a battle level ship comparable to the Omega?

Personally I believe that the crusade era ships are supposed to be the cream of the crop and higher priorities then those previous designs. A Chronos should be that much better then an Artemis frigate a Marathon better then the Hyperion and the Warlock (which should be Armageddon, not war, Earth is after all a galactic super power and if the Brakiri and the Abbai have one then Earth should have one) should be better then the Omega.

So, here is my first suggestion for the Crusade Era. Take a Marathon cruiser, take away its main gun (the beam), 1 Hull point and give it another 4 fighters, carrier 2, and the fleet carrier trait. You suddenly have a good raid level carrier for the Crusade era.

 

[Cavalier1645]

-------
But unlike the Vree it is hull 6 vs hull 4, and has interceptors.
I have personally had the pleasure of having 5 Chronos stomp
4 Demos and 2 Kutai into the ground, I was the Centauri.
People complain that the Demos is broken, it would seem that
they do not really understand 'BROKEN' .

Yes JTL109 have to agreee with you

people all the time whine all the time that ships are broken (G'Vhrann-Narn , Demos-Centauri, Marathon-Earth), Stealth (Minbari), Too many Fighters (Gaim), and Hangers (Drakh). To those people man give a rest. If can't use tactics to over come some bodies ships or special traits.. I'm sorry. If the dice gods fail you, I'm sorry

Never had problem killing the G'Vhrann
Watch many a time my Demos die horribily
Killed many a Marathon
Sent a few Boneheads to recarnation
Handle the bee swarm
and Drakh mother ship go boom with babies on board

Stop the Nerfing
This Been a pro-G'Vhrann message

I'm Admiral Cavalier and I approve this message

 

[CZuschlag]

God save us from the Bonehead Maneouver. It was raked over the coals here. The first major update of the playtest rules was the removal of Bonehead .... and there was much rejoicing! So, we want it back.

Uncle Stone Cold says "Oh, Hell, No!".

I don't like more E-mines. Others have also said there are likely just too many of 'em. Seriously ... if EA had Fusion Missiles, why was the Minbari Jammer such a problem of Earth during the Earth-Minbari war? It makes little sense.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

for once I agree with CZuschlag, what few problems the EA has can be filled with varients of exsisting ships. Early EA only really needs one. 3rd age needs more Omega accessability, and crusade needs a Raid level warship, a raid level carrier, and an Armmageddon choice (NOT THE EXCALIBUR, thats ISA not EA. Either give the EA full access or remove it outright and replace it with some distinctly earth).

I will never use fussion missiles, even if they give me a distinct (if not momententary) advantage.

 

[Tolwyn]

-------
But unlike the Vree it is hull 6 vs hull 4, and has interceptors.
I have personally had the pleasure of having 5 Chronos stomp
4 Demos and 2 Kutai into the ground, I was the Centauri.
People complain that the Demos is broken, it would seem that
they do not really understand 'BROKEN' .

That's at least because there is no other use for the now is Chronos as the scondaries are not woth mentioning.
I remember the time when it came to B5 Wars, the ship it now is in ACTA no longer depicts what it was designed for, and even if it is the only skirmish choice for EA I use it only randomly.

 

[stepan.razin]

-------
But unlike the Vree it is hull 6 vs hull 4, and has interceptors.
I have personally had the pleasure of having 5 Chronos stomp
4 Demos and 2 Kutai into the ground, I was the Centauri.
People complain that the Demos is broken, it would seem that
they do not really understand 'BROKEN' .

Hehe... Love hearing about my beloved EA wooping ass!

 

[CratZ]

Will 3rd age still be gettin something? I think omegas and hyperion could use a little buff on their side arcs.

 

[Tolwyn]

Will 3rd age still be gettin something? I think omegas and hyperion could use a little buff on their side arcs.

Not only the side arcs IMO. Beams are fine but the secondaries need something

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I agree, the omega's seconday beams out the P/S should lose the slow loading (there is only 4 of them for Crying out loud) but some more pulse cannon range out the P/S... on a battle level omega they should be heavy pulse cannons.

The Hyperions are fine.

The P/S on a warlock could use a bit of a boost... it has the same armament as a Marathon....
Also, if it can should Rail guns forward using turrets, shouldn't they be able to shoot sideways too?