Plasma Torpedos vs. Drones

[logical_proof]

Ok just want to make sure I have this correct.

Plasma Torpedos function exactly the same was as drones but with the following exceptions:

1) Drones don't have reload
2) Drones have over twice the range
3) Drones don't lose Attack Dice based on Range

Is this correct? In all honesty if it is correct I don't think I could play as a Plasma Race. Basically a ship with two F-Torps and 2 S-Torps is basically reduced to a phaser boat with a drone rack (only 8 attack dice from outside OL range once every other turn...). Something doesn't add up here.

 

[Nomad]

Plasma ships can generally launch more AD than equivalent drone ships when they attack, making it easier to overwhelm enemy phaser defences.

Drones can also be shot down in large numbers by Anti-drones.

 

[MongooseMatt]

You've got it mostly correct

The big difference (there are some minor ones like different treatment in defensive fire, but they are small) is what happens when a fully charged plasma torpedo smacks into an enemy at short range, and is quickly followed by several of its mates.

That Plasma-R is rolling 7 dice of _damage_ when (if!) it hits at close range. Throw in a couple of Plasma-S tubes, and even a battlecruiser will be sent reeling. As a Romulan (or Gorn!) player, you will _live_) for those moments - and even if things are going badly. you normally get one or two of them in every battle

Drones are good for keeping your opponent 'honest' forcing him to think about leaving a couple of phasers aside 'just in case' or using up his own drones to intercept yours.

A plasma torpedo is a short-ranged smack in the face with a sledgehammer. All you have to do is get close enough...

 

[Da Boss]

Ok just want to make sure I have this correct.

Plasma Torpedos function exactly the same was as drones but with the following exceptions:

1) Drones don't have reload
2) Drones have over twice the range
3) Drones don't lose Attack Dice based on Range

Is this correct? In all honesty if it is correct I don't think I could play as a Plasma Race. Basically a ship with two F-Torps and 2 S-Torps is basically reduced to a phaser boat with a drone rack (only 8 attack dice from outside OL range once every other turn...). Something doesn't add up here.

It is correct

Romulan ships have the cloak - a staight 2+ save versus all weapons except plasma and drones which can't even fire at them.

Gorn appear to have lots of guns.

 

[Asguard101]

I've been meanignto ask this, why does the Plasma-R have the smae range as the Plasma-S? I thought the R had longer range....

 

[deadshane]

You've got it mostly correct

The big difference (there are some minor ones like different treatment in defensive fire, but they are small) is what happens when a fully charged plasma torpedo smacks into an enemy at short range, and is quickly followed by several of its mates.

That Plasma-R is rolling 7 dice of _damage_ when (if!) it hits at close range. Throw in a couple of Plasma-S tubes, and even a battlecruiser will be sent reeling. As a Romulan (or Gorn!) player, you will _live_) for those moments - and even if things are going badly. you normally get one or two of them in every battle

Drones are good for keeping your opponent 'honest' forcing him to think about leaving a couple of phasers aside 'just in case' or using up his own drones to intercept yours.

A plasma torpedo is a short-ranged smack in the face with a sledgehammer. All you have to do is get close enough...

Nice explanation.

Pretty much exactly like in the original game.

 

[Greg Smith]

1) Drones don't have reload
2) Drones have over twice the range
3) Drones don't lose Attack Dice based on Range

4. Drones can be stopped by tractor beams.

 

[Captain Jonah]

The nature of the weapons matches the style of the races.

Drone heavy Kzinti fleets are going to be buzzing round trying to keep the range open while stinging you with drone waves. Think of the heavy Drone fleets as long range Sabre dancers, keep moving to stay out of the enemies heavy weapons while hitting him every turn with drone waves. Pick on one ship and wear it down.

The plasma races on the other hand are very different. 8)

The Romulans are much more the type you find lurking in dark alleys waiting to stick a big knife in your back. The Gorn are much more the in your face eat knuckles type and the ISC when they get here are a mix of short range plasmas to force you to keep away while the PPDs chew your ships up one by one. :shock:

A Kzinti fleet can easily chuck out 12-15 dice of Drones every turn. More if you have packed in some Drone ships and can get them into range of a single target. That is going to be hard to stop but to snipe you need to hang back where your Disruptors are generally useless. Or you can close in to use Drones and Disruptors but the other guy can fire back.

A plasma fleet can throw 30+ dice of plasmas at you, 12+ dice from some of the bigger ships and if you end up nose to nose with a plasma DN you are in a world of hurt. One plasma ship will generally carry more plasma attack dice than several drone ships making it much harder to stop them.

In terms of combat style the Drone ships can combine to fire at a single target across the battlefield where as the plasma ships can only combine fire with other nearby ships but its much harder to stop the Alpha strike from a pair of Plasma cruisers than it is the Drone fire from a pair of Kzinti cruisers.

Heavy drone users need to keep the range open and move around, with fixed maps and lots of hand space objects to break up line of fire you will find that those nasty brutal plasma types get in close. You may be able to hurt them on the way in but 20 or so dice of Drones is not going to be enough when faced with ships using intensified defensive firepower to cover each other and once the plasma types get close they will overwhelm your ships and crush you.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHACough. :twisted:

 

[logical_proof]

Traditionally the Kzintis are strong knife fighters. Personally I will not be playing as Romulan. The fact that drones on a Kzinti frigate are equivellant to the plasma on a Firehawk is totally mismached but I am not Surprised Romulans were nerfed in FedComm as well.

 

[Da Boss]

Try the Romulans - I think you will find that this is not the case at all................in fact they are quite scary especailly since they are completely immune to all those drines whilst cloaked. Indeed on another forum at least one player is bemoaning how broken the Romulans are........... usual thing with new games/fleets etc........it might be that there are issues one way or another but until people have actually got to grips withthe game difficult to tell.

Drones and Plasma - completely different weapons used in different ways......if Plasma had same range as Drones - the Romulans would be unstopable and the Gorn not far behind

 

[MongooseMatt]

I've been meanignto ask this, why does the Plasma-R have the smae range as the Plasma-S? I thought the R had longer range....

Effectively it does.

At maximum range, the Plasma-S will be rolling one dice of damage _if_ it gets through a ship's defences (and, frankly, opening an air lock and blowing it out might well work).

At the same range, a Plasma-R is still rolling 4 dice, a _big_ difference in damage potential and tough enough to block unless you concentrate every available defence on stopping it.

 

[Nomad]

The fact that drones on a Kzinti frigate are equivalent to the plasma on a Firehawk is totally mismached

Kz FF - 4 AD of drones per turn.

Rom FH - 12 AD of plasma every second turn.

Sadly, my keyboard does not have an "equals" sign with a diagonal line through it.

I think those ships a pretty much where they should be.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Try the Romulans - I think you will find that this is not the case at all................in fact they are quite scary especailly since they are completely immune to all those drines whilst cloaked. Indeed on another forum at least one player is bemoaning how broken the Romulans are........... usual thing with new games/fleets etc........it might be that there are issues one way or another but until people have actually got to grips withthe game difficult to tell.

Always fun watching people play Romulans for the first time - they are a tricksey fleet to get to grips with.

The idea behind the Romulans is that you _must_ get your opponent reacting to you. If you can keep him off-balance, you can completely smother him with plasma with little return fire. If you don't get on top of the game early on, you will be facing a grind and that is not always the Romulans best card.

 

[logical_proof]

12 AD at close range yes, but as I said 8 AD at 8", so yes 4 per turn is pretty close to 8 every other turn.

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

And yet because those drones are spread over two turns, the enemy has two turns worth of phasers to shoot down those drone waves (and gets to use his tractors in both turns).

He only gets one turn of phasers to shoot down the plasma.

 

[Totenkopf]

And yet because those drones are spread over two turns, the enemy has two turns worth of phasers to shoot down those drone waves (and gets to use his tractors in both turns).

He only gets one turn of phasers to shoot down the plasma.

and as stated elsewhere already, enemies can use drones and anti-drones to shoot down drones.

 

[logical_proof]

That's not even factoring in disruptive damage. I am not advocating for a boost to Romulans, I am advocating for reload to be dded to drones, otherwise they are just plasmas on steroids. Not all races have anti-drones, the drone using races do though. This will just be another game where plasma races will not be used competitively.

 

[MongooseMatt]

This will just be another game where plasma races will not be used competitively.

And yet it isn't

We have already had one tournament player switch from Klingons to Romulans _because_ of the plasma torpedoes.

Drones have a tendency to cancel one another out.

 

[Da Boss]

So have you found this in the games you have played thus far?

As has been said drones don't worry the Romulans too much as they are aboslutely Immune to drones whilst cloaked and they are one of the main plasma using races?

The Gorn seem to have an awful lot of phaser 3's and tractor beams?

Also don't forget the importance of terrain in ACTA - you might not even have line of sight until you get close.

Which of these two races do you feel is uncompetative and why given the above?

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

That's not even factoring in disruptive damage. I am not advocating for a boost to Romulans, I am advocating for reload to be dded to drones, otherwise they are just plasmas on steroids. Not all races have anti-drones, the drone using races do though. This will just be another game where plasma races will not be used competitively.

I strongly disagree with this idea, for all the reasons previously given by myself and others. Though I did think of another, the longer range of Drones isn't that much a benefit. If you're outside of weapon range chucking drones, the opponent could simply put most of his fleet on "Defensive Fire" and slowly advance, shooting down most of the incoming drones while he works to corner you. I don't think drones will be overpowered. If they were I believe the several playtesting groups would've figured that out.

It is possible though, a few hundred players can find problems more easily than a few dozen. I guess we'll just have to see once the game is in more people's hands and being played extensively. I think it'll be fine however. There are a lot of ways to deal with drones, far less so plasma.