Phased Initiative

[Apachex]

One of the issues I've noticed with the game deals with an overabundance of 'init sinks' One of the ways I have seen that handled in other games is to balance the movement to ensure that the side that wins initiative always moves last, but not with all the excess ships. Here is an example:

Side A: 8 ships
Side B: 6 ships

Side A wins Init:

B,A,B,A,B,A,B,A,B,AA,B,AA

Side B wins init:

A,B,A,B,A,B,A,B,AA,B,AA,B

ideas?

 

[animus]

Looks complicated

 

[Ripple]

I voted no, but with a caveat.

Right now boresight ships must move last to use their primary weapon. Thus you MUST init sink to have a shot at all, at least once. Unless we add a SA that allows bore ships to delay a turn until their target ship has moved there is no other way to make say an omega pay for itself.

If we put in some for of delayed move for boresights, expand boresighs at some penalty in AD make them declare targets but expand arc before move in some way extra, removing init sinking is just a nerf to several fleets.

If some way to make bore work was instituted, I would vote yes as it would help reduce the need to init sink.

- I understand that the phased movement COULD also help boresighted ships as it would reduce the number of times an opponent could sink, but it likely reduces you as much or more as the bore fleets are the great offenders right now in having lots and lots of sinks in games that go beyond the 5 pt raid locally.

Ripple

 

[Wulf Corbett]

I vote no. Outnumbering your opponent SHOULD bring a benefit, and the current system is the easiest way to show it.

Wulf

 

[Target]

Another idea for having the boresight ship being able to "tap" and move later is having it a command roll using a command ship command trait .
The Ships with command could
Give one ship the ability to "Tap" CQ 9
Give one ship +1 to CQ that round CQ9
It would be like Scout so command ship couldn't use these ablities if they used a SA.
Maybe if a ship like the Poisedon Command +3 it could use this abilty 3 times in a round but never the same ship twice. They could use this abiliy on themselves or the +1 CQ would hardly be useful since they can't use SA.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Outnumbering the enemy already does carry a benefit; usually, a large group of small ships has more ability to give and take firepower, between them, than a small group of large ships- being able to outmanoeuvre the enemy as well often seems like adding insult to injury.
The trend is clearly against, but I voted yes, because the number of times I've been able to use initiative sinks to sidestep an enemy boresight for no in universe reason that I can understand is starting to get to me.

 

[E Nicely]

Terrible idea. Save it for Star Fleet Battles.

 

[Commador Q]

1. outmanuvering your oponent is suposed to hapen if you have more ships than they do.

2. boresight ships aren't usless without initiative sinks, you can always boresight on whatever mov ed just before you did.

3. the perposed system looks needlesly complicated.

 

[Chernobyl]

no but you may not be able to maneuver to target the ships that "just moved." Something I'd like to see in ACTA 2 might be a "reaction" order that allows a boresight ship to declare a target and track it...if you don't make a turn on your movement, you can make one turn up to your normal turn distance to target this vessel after it has moved. This eliminates the need for boresight fleets to "sink" up their fleets.

Chern

 

[Commador Q]

but you may not be able to maneuver to target the ships that "just moved."

Chern

and that's called being out manuvered, which hapens to large hips when they are outnumbered.

 

[Ripple]

hey Uhlan...this is nothing like a Star Fleet Battles movement system. Its nearest neighbor is the Battletech system. You move two ships to your opponents one until you the remaining ships is one each with the winner moving last. Not as bad as it sounds, do it once and you will never have trouble with it.

Ripple

 

[Chernobyl]

what I mean is, the ships he's moving likely won't be in the arc of the boresight ship if he can help it. Its not being out maneuvered, its being out "sink-ed". so you can't ...

2. boresight ships aren't usless without initiative sinks, you can always boresight on whatever mov ed just before you did.

..."always" do this. Sometime you can, in the early stages you usually will be able to find a target, but once the "scrum" begins, it get a lot tougher.

Chern

 

[Skipper]

Another proposal, Nominate an oponents ship to move.

When you win initiative, select a ship on the enemies side and they have to move it. The enemy then selects one of yours and you move it. Alternate till all ships have moved.

This still gives fleets with excess ships the last moves, but reduces the amount of "freeplay". It should work reasonabley well without overbalancing in the opposite direction.

 

[animus]

Another proposal, Nominate an oponents ship to move.

When you win initiative, select a ship on the enemies side and they have to move it. The enemy then selects one of yours and you move it. Alternate till all ships have moved.

This still gives fleets with excess ships the last moves, but reduces the amount of "freeplay". It should work reasonabley well without overbalancing in the opposite direction.

very interesting....

 

[LaranosTZ]

Other then it penalizes boresite ships excessively.

 

[Reaverman]

I vote No, and unless the world goes 'Topsey Turvey', I think the No's have it

 

[Chernobyl]

Skipper's idea sounds exceptionally interesting, but I agree that the first ship to be chosen will undoubtably be the biggest boresight ship out there, rendering it next to pointless, unless there can be some kind of reaction adjustment.

Chern

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Boresight mounts are already penalised by having a zero fire arc and so being unable to line up on a target that hasn't already moved. Whether that counts as unreasonably penalised is a matter of opinion. Personally, I reckon it's a lousy way to handle a spinal mount.
Allowing the enemy to nominate which ships get moved will slow the game down, and add more potential for cheese. The neatest way to give big guns back some bite probably is a SA; either go with the target tracking idea, or amend CAF, to include tracking the target with the spinal.

 

[Wing Commander]

The Battletech phased initiative is simple;

If side A wins initiative it always moves 1 unit last, regardless.
If 1 side outnumbers the other then once it is down to double the units left to move, it has to move 2.
e.g. Side A wins initiative and has 4 ships, side B loses and has 6 ships.
Turn 1 B moves 1 ship, A moves 1 ship (5 and 3 left)
B moves 1 ship, A moves 1 ship (4 and 2 left)
B moves 2 ships (outnumbers 2:1) and A moves 1 ship (2 and 1 left)
B moves last 2 ships (outnumbers 2:1) and A moves last ship

- Very easy, very fast and very balanced. Boresight ships still have a fighting chance, you just need to plan a little more carefully and move them a little earlier on, this more accurately reflects that High initiative ships should be all over you like a bad rash. At the moment High initiative tends to equal higher end ships which, ironically, mean they go last more often than not....

 

[Silvereye]

But how would ships in a squadron or pentacon be counted within this, and what happens when a formation breaks up part way through a turn.

E.g. At five battle a Centauri player brings 2 Primus, 6 Vorchan (2 squadrons of 3) and 2 Sulust. Do you count this as 10 ships or 6 'ships', what happens when a vorchn pack slits up, would this be then 10 ships or 8 'ships'?