Omega Command Destroyer up

[tneva82]

And yes, new Dilgar and Drakh stuff, which was preached about before the major races got even more ships. Not necessarily an Armageddon ship, but some new ships full stop would wet my appetite.

Well good for you. Dilgar ships are coming.

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice. Even ditching that farcical Armageddon PL breakdown would be good as well.

So you would want to go from this system to even more unbalanced system. Groovy.

 

[TenaciousB]

And yes, new Dilgar and Drakh stuff, which was preached about before the major races got even more ships. Not necessarily an Armageddon ship, but some new ships full stop would wet my appetite.

Well good for you. Dilgar ships are coming.

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice. Even ditching that farcical Armageddon PL breakdown would be good as well.

So you would want to go from this system to even more unbalanced system. Groovy.

Nice of you to have yet another go at me on this forum, when there are a lot more people contributing to the discussion. Good to see just how petty an individual you really are. Keep up the work! Hope it makes you feel like a big man.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice.

I don't see that happening. Points are not an elixir. Besides as Greg has said the Priority Level system is quick and easy.

For Gaelcon I picked my fleet the night before in about 20 minutes of weighing up pros and cons.
Now if you ask me to write a 2000pt army list for Skinnies/Eldar/Dark Elves I will take days or weeks agonising over how to best squeeze every drop out of it

The PL system is elegant in its simplicity

 

[H]

And yes, new Dilgar and Drakh stuff, which was preached about before the major races got even more ships. Not necessarily an Armageddon ship, but some new ships full stop would wet my appetite.

Well good for you. Dilgar ships are coming.

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice. Even ditching that farcical Armageddon PL breakdown would be good as well.

So you would want to go from this system to even more unbalanced system. Groovy.

I myself don't want a points system, but at least try to be constuctive about things.

 

[thePirv]

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice.

I don't see that happening. Points are not an elixir. Besides as Greg has said the Priority Level system is quick and easy.

For Gaelcon I picked my fleet the night before in about 20 minutes of weighing up pros and cons.
Now if you ask me to write a 2000pt army list for Skinnies/Eldar/Dark Elves I will take days or weeks agonising over how to best squeeze every drop out of it

The PL system is elegant in its simplicity

No, points aren't the magical cure all for imbalances, real or imaginary, in the game, but with the vast number of ships available to some fleets, priority levels oversimplify the game and try to bunch ships together into too restrictive a system. More priority levels might help to rectify this problem. It's a hard one to judge, but at leastwith a true points sysem, it can be worked at much more freely to balance the game properly. Yes, it would be a lot of work, and at least fr the first few months, the forums would be full of people arguing over "Ship x is over/under costed", but this is a much easier system to fix.

 

[emperorpenguin]

No, points aren't the magical cure all for imbalances, real or imaginary, in the game, but with the vast number of ships available to some fleets, priority levels oversimplify the game and try to bunch ships together into too restrictive a system. More priority levels might help to rectify this problem. It's a hard one to judge, but at leastwith a true points sysem, it can be worked at much more freely to balance the game properly. Yes, it would be a lot of work, and at least fr the first few months, the forums would be full of people arguing over "Ship x is over/under costed", but this is a much easier system to fix.

I know what you mean but I don't think any such system is ever corrected of imbalances so the points-fudging would go on indefinitely anyway. In that sense I think it'd be futile to change to points.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well I think the problem at the moment is due to the sheer scope of ships available now having basically 6 possible values for them is just too limiting.

Having a points system would NOT solve anything on its own but I do think it would make it easier to solve.

And saying its a more unbalanced system is simply idiotic. The PL system IS a point system, its just costed a little differently. Points in wargames are fine, imbalance arises when people cost ships wrongly.

Oh and one thing I will NEVER get is how people harp on about Space Marines being the text book example of GW brokeness? Frankly theyre one of the few lists in 40k that ISNT hideously broken (or at least they were last time I played said game) (just to derail this thread a bit )

 

[Shadow Queen]

£20 for 5 plastic terminators ... unless that has changed. er £25

 

[Greg Smith]

There's no point in waiting for 2nd Ed to fix the mistakes of the previous editions/expansions - fix them NOW whilst there are still players playing the game.

So what needs fixing (other than more Drakh and Dilgar ships for you and the Pirv)?

No need to get sarky - I'm not the only one pissed off with this company.

I wasn't trying to be sarky (okay a little with the Drakh and Dilgar comment). I was wondering what you felt needed fixing in or before the second edition. I was after constructive criticism.

Personally, I'm still annoyed at the fact that Mongoose tried to rip people off with Armageddon.

Added to the fact that I'm still waiting on my metal stems and bases which were ordered almost 3 months ago.

Nothing that can actually be fixed in the second edition then.

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice.

You were talking about mistakes you thought needed fixing. That is a not exactly a mistake.

Even ditching that farcical Armageddon PL breakdown would be good as well.

Why is it farcical?

Hows about collapsed molds? 5 months on and people are still waiting to recieve Drakh Motherships that they've paid for in good faith?
Obscene prices for some minis? (see the T'Rakk for a perfect example)
Bad sculpts that the majority of players don't like and certainly won't pay exorbitant prices for?

Again not something the second edition can fix.

Severe problems in Fleet Boxes, such as the majority of the minis in the Shadows box set being unusable in a regular game any more, since they are now too high priority wise?

I can agree with that. It would be good to see the a stop-gap measure for the Shadow fleet.

Or problems within fleetlists where ships of the same priority are horribly out of balance with one another?

Other than the Sagi (which was promptly fixed) which other ships are horribly out of balance? There are several that are somewhat out of balance.

Both the Shadow fleet and the balancing of ships is being dealt with in the second edition. Although there is nearly as much debate about it among the playtesters as on this board.

As a playtester I can't do anything about the moulds, Drakh motherships or prices. I can try and learn about rule and ship complaints, though.

 

[H]

Just read through the forum then Greg, more than enough issues have been brought up repeatedly, listing ships people feel overpowered, underpowered, don't fit fluff, and then of course all the things that can't be handled by you, but one would hope you can feed back to matt, poor models, no models, typos!!!!, overpriced little impact books such as armageddon, players leaving the game thinking no one knows what the hell they are doing, eg saggi, T'Rakk being changed after 3 days.... (was it really a typo, or a reaction to reactions...)

in fact... My Fleet.... Narn

Advanced e-mines. Allow loadouts to be swapped otherwise they are less effective than normal mines (ie only half the launchers)

Dag'Kar I have mentioned this to you, it's a bit weak with the current e-mines, up speed, or up hull.

G'Quonth/G'Tal... argh, pointless, pointless ships... I have statted a torpedo G'Quonth as an idea...

G'Quan, more dice, or twin link on the boresight beam (same goes for Omega!)

thats it, I'm mostly happy with the Narn.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Oh and one thing I will NEVER get is how people harp on about Space Marines being the text book example of GW brokeness? Frankly theyre one of the few lists in 40k that ISNT hideously broken (or at least they were last time I played said game) (just to derail this thread a bit )

Two words: assault Cannons!
oh and another two: chapter traits!

ok back on topic!

 

[TenaciousB]

Personally, I'm still annoyed at the fact that Mongoose tried to rip people off with Armageddon.

Added to the fact that I'm still waiting on my metal stems and bases which were ordered almost 3 months ago.

Nothing that can actually be fixed in the second edition then.

Actually it can - cater for those races that got forgotten about with Armageddon, and make those players feel as if the company actually gives a toss about them.

Also, changing to a points based system over the existing PL system would be nice.

You were talking about mistakes you thought needed fixing. That is a not exactly a mistake.

Well, it is a mistake if the PL system is still out of whack. All the PL system is, is a fancy points-based system, with 6 groupings. Some ships are better at the top of their priority than others at the very bottom. this is called an IMBALANCE. A points system, or even more levels to the PL system would be a good start at addressing imbalance - I'm not saying its perfect, but it's something.

Even ditching that farcical Armageddon PL breakdown would be good as well.

Why is it farcical?

It's farcical because I felt it was fine the way it was before - now at certain games (such as a 1 point Armageddon game), you can only take certain things. I think it was introduced to stop people from taking pure cheese fleets, such as the full Saggi list, which wouldn't have happened if the sag wasn't so over-powered in the first place.

Both the Shadow fleet and the balancing of ships is being dealt with in the second edition. Although there is nearly as much debate about it among the playtesters as on this board.

That's good to hear - I hope all the playtesters are being kept extremely busy, so that we players may put faith back into it.

I know it seems that I moan a lot about the game, but it has brought me a lot of enjoyment during my first year of playing, and I would hope that the company could reward us who have remained faithful by delivering on certain promises and keeping the people who pay their money sweet.

You never know, give me a few Dilgar ships and I may STFU :lol:

Doubtful tho.....

 

[emperorpenguin]

T'Rakk being changed after 3 days.... (was it really a typo, or a reaction to reactions...).

It was a typo, as I said we had seen it and been playtesting it at 2/45 for a while

If it was just a reaction then why not change the anti-fighter trait on the drakh cruiser or the lack of particle beams on the Saggi?

 

[H]

beats me. We have heard sooo many things, then they haven't happened, who knows what to believe any more.

 

[emperorpenguin]

It's farcical because I felt it was fine the way it was before - now at certain games (such as a 1 point Armageddon game), you can only take certain things. I think it was introduced to stop people from taking pure cheese fleets, such as the full Saggi list, which wouldn't have happened if the sag wasn't so over-powered in the first place..

As far as I'm aware it was done to simplify the breakdowns, rather than a 3 for one but 4 for another it simply became a 2:1 step at each PL

 

[katadder]

That's good to hear - I hope all the playtesters are being kept extremely busy, so that we players may put faith back into it.

you wouldnt believe how busy. go away from the comp for an hour or 2 and my inbox is filled with emails

 

[emperorpenguin]

That's good to hear - I hope all the playtesters are being kept extremely busy, so that we players may put faith back into it.

you wouldnt believe how busy. go away from the comp for an hour or 2 and my inbox is filled with emails

And I've sent you about 10 this morning alone!

 

[Shadow Queen]

That's good to hear - I hope all the playtesters are being kept extremely busy, so that we players may put faith back into it.

you wouldnt believe how busy. go away from the comp for an hour or 2 and my inbox is filled with emails

get online @ 10 ish 14 emails

 

[animus]

This thread is officially hijacked.

I don't mind the prices. I've owned a business, and if these prices are what they need, I'm good. I don't think anyone's getting rich. Mongoose isn't Exxon.

With the Lost Tales tales coming out, B5 is about to get some attention again. Mongoose should be ready for the new interest. A shiny new rule set and new fleet boxes will go a long way.

I have faith in the 2nd ed because 1st ed isn't that far off. Yes, there are problems and yes the molds are getting worn, but there are plenty of cool models (for every skill level :lol, you get to throw a lot of dice and things explode. It's all good.

Balance will always be an issue because we will all try and break every rule. I see mostly underpowered ships now, not over powered. That, believe it or not, is a sign of progress.

Keep the faith everyone. Keep the faith.

 

[katadder]

That's good to hear - I hope all the playtesters are being kept extremely busy, so that we players may put faith back into it.

you wouldnt believe how busy. go away from the comp for an hour or 2 and my inbox is filled with emails

And I've sent you about 10 this morning alone!

yep sometimes 3 in a row withing seconds of each other think before sending