Official Traveller Universe or Original Traveller Universe
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captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
EDG said:
Well, in context it does look like the OTU will be one of many - but with lots of support - primus inter omnia (or somthing).
So, I doubt from that, that simply stripping the engine out and discarding the OTU was or is their goal. Honestly, I have to applaud their goals in this.
Plus, apparently they do see the current version of MGT (as it stands now, a very close CT relative) as a generic engine -with all that that implies for the genericness of CT ; the difference is, now, MGT GM's will be able to pull a book with rules to use their favorite genre in many cases. Of course, some of us will always be having to do it ourselves (a La CT) if we want to do it with Traveller: -Dr Who, Blake 7, Star wars(original) all being examples of campaigns with CT in the day that required tweaking, and still will.
I'm gonna jump in here as it looks like this is getting to the arguing apples and apples....
See, this is my view of Traveller, it's one large toolkit. a gm uses the pieces he needs to run whatever type of game he wants. Looking at Mongoose's effort there is a good base to build any number of games off of. One must note that Mongoose is limited to a very specific version of Traveller, and as such it is reflecting those very early days of game design. The utility is in how each group uses what is presented. Or the basic frame that is presented needs to be built upon for it to be functional.
As for some people claim that the Traveller setting doesn't support Cyberpunk/Post-human issues, really haven't read all that much of what has been produced under the Traveller umbrella. Elements of the 'punk ethos is one of the core tenants of the constellation of games that we know as Traveller. The mechanical bits have been few and far between, but they have been there, the vast majority of the GDW produced adventures are classic examples of the 'punk ethos.
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but all of my games have reflected the aspects of the provided material that I thought was necessary and not what some outsider said I needed to play Traveller. But then again I am a heretic.
EDG said:
See, this is my view of Traveller, it's one large toolkit. a gm uses the pieces he needs to run whatever type of game he wants. Looking at Mongoose's effort there is a good base to build any number of games off of. One must note that Mongoose is limited to a very specific version of Traveller, and as such it is reflecting those very early days of game design. The utility is in how each group uses what is presented. Or the basic frame that is presented needs to be built upon for it to be functional.
As for some people claim that the Traveller setting doesn't support Cyberpunk/Post-human issues, really haven't read all that much of what has been produced under the Traveller umbrella. Elements of the 'punk ethos is one of the core tenants of the constellation of games that we know as Traveller. The mechanical bits have been few and far between, but they have been there, the vast majority of the GDW produced adventures are classic examples of the 'punk ethos.
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but all of my games have reflected the aspects of the provided material that I thought was necessary and not what some outsider said I needed to play Traveller. But then again I am a heretic.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
BenGunn said:
The punk ethos is reflected by the illegal nature of the vast majority of the adventures in CT. Hackers and cybernetics worn openly in a setting that normally frowns upon them date to the Traveller Adventure and the article on Computer Implants.
The trans-humanism is sort of sideways until the true AIs of TNE, since the setting and game deal with uplifts and aliens as "human", and features dozens of human variants placed and (sometimes) modified by the Ancients. The question "what is Human" does not have a simple answer.
The confusion is why the name became 2300AD.
BenGunn said:
The entire construct of undertaking missions based on the information and lucre given by a patron, with no external check on the ethos of said mission.
Heck, the entire Traveller Adventure embeds the PCs in the middle of a corporate war.
BenGunn said:
Flipping through Jtas/Challenge as well as the provided equipment in the adventure periodically gives new options for the characters. The original robots article as well as the computer implant come right to mind. Now these aren't the gleeful cut it off and replace it options that pervades the games that focus on the style of play, but to some extent the option is there for the group/player that wants to follow that style.
BenGunn said:
There are numerous examples of genetic engineering in the Traveller setting. There have even been some outlines of how one would do so within the game as a PC (Traveller's digest). These have been in the sidlines as setting more than direct options for players, but there has never been a directive that it doesn't exist. It is another of using what is provided to shape the game you want to play.
BenGunn said:
Well is that a bad thing? One of the major faults of all of the "cyberpunk" themed games is that they focus on the hardware instead of the reaction to said hardware. Frequently the adventure's the players are presented with are man vs. the impersonal machine in the form of Mega-corps.
I admit that I have my bias towards 'punk styled games as that I am a major fan of the literary movement. While the stories all have fantastic machinery, the stories themselves frequently portray characters that are doing what the must to fulfill their personal goals, goals that tend to morph as they grow within their setting. For me it is how the characters act and not the gear that they have that defines the setting.
Infojunky said:
In something like CP2020 or Shadowrun though, the PCs are usually specifically built for troubleshooting/shadowrunning/espionage. In Traveller though, that's usually not their day job.
The 'punk part in cyberpunk is usually a "fight the power, anti-authoritarian, bring the system down" thing (as well as a description of the general visual/fashion style, perhaps). You don't usually get that in Traveller either.
Infojunky said:
You misunderstand me. I'm saying that the anti-authoritarian stance of "-punk" is an intrinsic, core part of games like CP2020 and Shadowrun, but that it isn't an intrinsic part of Traveller as presented in the any of the books. Doing the odd bit of "crime" while trading, or being caught up in trouble on a backwater planet is very different to inflitrating a corp to extract someone or rebelling against the status quo.
Then again I've see "-punk" bandied around so much by people who have no inkling as to what it actually signifies (see steampunk, cthulhupunk, fantasypunk, mechapunk, or whatever). A lot of people just seem to use it to mean "a mash up of stuff" nowadays.
Obviously people can play the game however they like, though.
BenGunn said:
Apparently some people are having trouble with the thought of an official Babylon 5 supplement designed to run with Traveller. I can picture the lengthy 20 page debates on whether they're running "Babylon 5" or "Traveller"
. As if it makes any difference to anything at all - just play the game already!
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
EDG said:BenGunn said:
Apparently some people are having trouble with the thought of an official Babylon 5 supplement designed to run with Traveller. I can picture the lengthy 20 page debates on whether they're running "Babylon 5" or "Traveller"
Really ? Where ? I've actually been noting the lack of complaint on the subject. In fact, I haven;t seen much flak at all about mongooses plans; which seems to me a remarkably mature approach on the part of the fanbase.
Is it those buggers at SFRPG making trouble again ?
))There's not much flak per se... I just read a comment by someone about it. Given the general "is it a ruleset or is it a setting" arguments that have occurred in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if more people who think it's important comment on it as new non-OTU settings come out.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Given the way these "discussions" have shaken out before, it behooves Mongoose to NOT put the "Traveller" name in big letters on the B5 cover. GDW themselves didn't seem to have problems with other clearly named games using the same mechanics, but as soon as the word "Traveller" hit the cover of a non-Third Imperium setting product, the confusion set in.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
GypsyComet said:
I think the upcoming items part of the website had a picture of it - if I recall, it was pretty clearly labeled as B5 -with traveller and the swoosh line at the bottom. Its pretty clear that it is country and western.
That said, its not so hard to see why the situation you note caused confusion to set in: intentional or not, releasing a product called "Traveller:2300" (or whatever date) when one of your main products is called "Traveller", and not having much if anything to do with it is pretty far over on the confuse-o-meter. I always wonder why it wasn't marketed as "Twilight 2300" , It really was much more in common with their big seller and in-house focus at that time. Ah well.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
rust said:
You are under arrest. Please remain where you are and an officer will come by and take you away.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter,
The GehimCannonTravellerPoleitzi
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
rust said:Poor officer.captainjack23 said:
Since I am hiding in a temporarily no longer empty hex on the surface
of an asteroid at relativistic speed in my own non-OTU not-really-parallel
universe, he / she / it will have a hard time finding me ... 8)
Are you kidding ? That is exactly where they patrol.....
captainjack23 said:rust said:Poor officer.captainjack23 said:
Since I am hiding in a temporarily no longer empty hex on the surface
of an asteroid at relativistic speed in my own non-OTU not-really-parallel
universe, he / she / it will have a hard time finding me ... 8)
Are you kidding ? That is exactly where they patrol.....
That would explain the viability of piracy.
EDG said:
Yes, and no. It really depends what your take of the "Imperium", I see it for the self serving confused monster that the players within use for their own ends. As we all know Imperially licensed corporations have some significant portion of their stock held by the Imperial household. Thus the corporations are potentially tools of the political powers and the reverse.
Now add in the entire military-industrial complex influences you have a dark universe where there multiple powers that are related and competing. Ergo, a setting with strong need for the PCs to "stick it to the man" while exploring the socital reactions to newly introduced technical solutions.
It really is how you view the information provided.
