NPC Classes?

[Yuan-Ti]

As I was putting together some encounters for my 1st level PCs, I realized that if I make all these Picts Barbarian-classes, my PCs are in real trouble. So, I decided to make fewer of them, but then I found it lost the Conan feel if the PCs run into a "Warband of 3 Picts." :roll:

Solutions to make that warband larger but not deadly? Make them Soldiers? Maybe. Fewer hit points? Possibly. What about a Warrior NPC class? One that has no special abilities at 1st level, only 1 feat, maybe even a d8 hit die. The cannon fodder of the Hyborian age.

Has anyone else thought about something like this?

 

[Infidel-X]

As I was putting together some encounters for my 1st level PCs, I realized that if I make all these Picts Barbarian-classes, my PCs are in real trouble. So, I decided to make fewer of them, but then I found it lost the Conan feel if the PCs run into a "Warband of 3 Picts."

Solutions to make that warband larger but not deadly? Make them Soldiers? Maybe. Fewer hit points? Possibly. What about a Warrior NPC class? One that has no special abilities at 1st level, only 1 feat, maybe even a d8 hit die. The cannon fodder of the Hyborian age.

Has anyone else thought about something like this?

What kind of stats and hit points are you giving your npc's??

 

[Yuan-Ti]

What kind of stats and hit points are you giving your npc's??

Well, the stats are relatively easy -- Str 12, Dex 14, Con 12. But that is a good point. Given that they are Picts, I could give them Dex 12 and leave the rest of their stats at 10.

HPS, I was planning on giving them at least 10, although some of them could be injured. Do you think I should just give them fewer HPS?

Maybe I'm jaded because the d20 Modern campaign I am playing in, our 1st level heroes (inlcuding my Smart hero with 7 hps) recently faced wave after wave of Zombies with 15 hps and 16 strength. :shock:

P.S. I'll have a Royale with Cheese, please.

 

[Infidel-X]

If it were my encounter I would lower the stats a bit and give them half the HP's. Also I would send them in in waves of 3 (more depending on the number of players I had) sorta like hunting parties I would also have my party continualy making listen checks for the picts war cries to keep the PCs on thier toes. Believing more COULD be on the way!

 

[PlayWithBob]

If your looking for a huge pile of corpses, make 3/4 of the Picks "Commoners" and let the other 1/4 of them be the 1st lvl barbarians.

Also Picts probably are not wearing armor so they have no DR to speak of. Taking full damage from every sucessful hit should cut them down pretty quickly.

Thrack

 

[Yuan-Ti]

If your looking for a huge pile of corpses, make 3/4 of the Picks "Commoners" and let the other 1/4 of them be the 1st lvl barbarians.

Also Picts probably are not wearing armor so they have no DR to speak of. Taking full damage from every sucessful hit should cut them down pretty quickly.

Thrack

Another good point. Thanks!

Obviously, I haven't run a session yet. I just don't want to turn anyone off in the first session by either: 1) a TPK, or 2) "orcs, Picts? all the same to me".

 

[BhilJhoanz]

Having played in Vince's Pict Campaign. I know that he gives his Picts average hit points at 1st level -- he said it's instructed that way in the NPC rules (I haven't verified -- he's accurate about these things).

Also they shouldn't have armor -- loincloth and primitive weapons are the order of the day here. Because of this, even a leather jerkin and Steel Cap will be enough to keep your players on their feet through several Picts each.

For really exciting large battles, we've travelled with other NPC soldiers and been ambushed - the only PC that went down was a 1st level Noble who went to hide in some brush that happened to have a Pict hiding in it . . . AoO, Surprise + crit = -4hp noble! We've been burning fate points like nobody's business too.

 

[S'mon]

You should use the sample Picts from the rulebook pg 298 - 1st level barbarians with 6 hp. If they're still too tough, lower the stats, eg lower DEX to 13 or even use all 10s & 11s. 6-8 of those should be a fair match for 4 1st level PCs.

 

[S'mon]

I think the "waves of picts" is a good idea too - 2-4 at a time, say 3-4 waves, will make a pretty epic battle that's still survivable.

Generally, I think in Conan with low-level PCs it's best not to min-max the NPCs too much. Eg most NPCs won't be wearing armour, unless they're professional soldiers. Equipment is the key to making NPCs less or more deadly - a squad of 1st level soldiers with breastplate, helm & chainmail, armed with bardiches, should put the wind up any smart PCs!

 

[Yuan-Ti]

I definitely plan on having the Picts fight naked... or at least with no armor. :wink: I think the Picts definitely need to have higher Dex since that is, after all, their national characteristic. I actually normally do not like the wave approach precisely because it seems too constructed. Also, I would like my players to think through some of these problems rather than rely on brawn and I find the wave approach encourages players to assume they have to fight or that they have to fight in a certain way.

I also have always been a DM who believes that NPCs have morale and know when to run. If the PCs kill half the Picts, including their leader, I expect the others will try to escape.

Thank you for the thoughts and ideas!

 

[Iron_Chef]

I definitely plan on having the Picts fight naked... or at least with no armor. :wink: I think the Picts definitely need to have higher Dex since that is, after all, their national characteristic. I actually normally do not like the wave approach precisely because it seems too constructed. Also, I would like my players to think through some of these problems rather than rely on brawn and I find the wave approach encourages players to assume they have to fight or that they have to fight in a certain way.

I also have always been a DM who believes that NPCs have morale and know when to run. If the PCs kill half the Picts, including their leader, I expect the others will try to escape.

Thank you for the thoughts and ideas!

I pitted my players against two waves of 20+ Darfari Yoggites (1st level barbarians) at 1st level. They had leather jerkins, superior weapons and a terrain advantage, the foes didn't. The PCs annihilated the first wave easily without a single casualty. They tore up the second wave but then started losing people left and right until only three out of twelve in the party (mixed PC/NPC) were on their feet at the end. Close call, but one they'll remember for a long time. :twisted:

Also, the Darfari had 14 STR for extra oomph when they hit.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

I pitted my players against two waves of 20+ Darfari Yoggites (1st level barbarians) at 1st level. They had leather jerkins, superior weapons and a terrain advantage, the foes didn't. The PCs annihilated the first wave easily without a single casualty. They tore up the second wave but then started losing people left and right until only three out of twelve in the party (mixed PC/NPC) were on their feet at the end. Close call, but one they'll remember for a long time. :twisted:

Also, the Darfari had 14 STR for extra oomph when they hit.

Nice.
I only have 3-4 PCs, so waves of 20 might be a bit much. :wink:

 

[Iron_Chef]

I pitted my players against two waves of 20+ Darfari Yoggites (1st level barbarians) at 1st level. They had leather jerkins, superior weapons and a terrain advantage, the foes didn't. The PCs annihilated the first wave easily without a single casualty. They tore up the second wave but then started losing people left and right until only three out of twelve in the party (mixed PC/NPC) were on their feet at the end. Close call, but one they'll remember for a long time. :twisted:

Also, the Darfari had 14 STR for extra oomph when they hit.

Nice.
I only have 3-4 PCs, so waves of 20 might be a bit much. :wink:

Bah! Waves of 10-12 then. :twisted: The picts should go down in 1-2 hits.

 

[tagnetti]

I've got to tell you, don't over analyze as I did. I thought for sure by the time my party got past the an avalanche, ice bridge, fort' saves for cold 4 Hyberian soldiers, a pack of wolves, 6 risen dead that a full man ape would crush them and I was wrong . I watered him down and they were taking him out quick ,.I brought in another full strength and still they smoked him. I think you will be surprised what a Leather Jerkin , steel cap and Buckler helps against.

I am still tring to figure out an even battle, but I think now I'll let them decide to live or die rather than me deciding for them.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Hythian]

Personally I'd say not to give them an even fight.

In the case of the Picts being discussed above, have them come across a huge number. 30+ all at once and have them figure out that it'd be a damned foolish thing to fight them. Give them enough of a head start though so that they can run, and let them get chased by bands ( of five or six ) of picts who are trying to circle them and cut them off with their better knowledge of the terrain ( listen or spot to hear their calls or see them in the woods ).

The bands will eventually start to catch up with them and let the characters figure out that these small bands aren't only trying to kill them, but are also trying to slow them down so the big group can catch up. Force them to go all out and try to kill the groups off quick ( a couple, maybe three rounds, before another hunting group comes around to help slow them down ).

If they break away ( and they should be able to, dropping the picts with just a blow or two ) let them race for better terrain ( say a rocky hill they faced earlier with some big boulders for cover vs ranged weapons or to cut down on the number of melee fighters at once ) to face down the mass horde of Pict'ish hunters coming for them.

This, in my mind, is an entirely fair and Conan'esque thing to do the PCs. In the stories Conan more then once backs off to find better ground to fight on ( in the "Thing in the Crypt" he does so to avoid wolves ).

It may be that the people I play with have just been untrained enough from the normal D&D challenge rating crap to be used to this. I hated CR's in D20, the idea of a fair fight seemed somewhat pointless. If the monster is too big, the characters should be able to realize this and flee and the players should be smart enough to know when it is time to go. But alas, they often need to suffer a few humiliating defeats before they catch on.

 

[Mayhem]

What level are your PCs starting at?

It's all very well to say you want to give them lots of foes in order to give them "the authentic conan experience", but I don't think conan was taking on 20 picts at a time when he was 1st level.

Maybe you need give them the opportunity to to gain a couple of levels before treating them to a good old fashioned conanesque pict massacre.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I gave my 2 PCs 11 allied 1st level NPCs right off the bat so we could run multiple mass battles. I've been slowly whittling these allied NPCs down in battle ever since...

 

[Yokiboy]

If it were my encounter I would lower the stats a bit and give them half the HP's. Also I would send them in in waves of 3 (more depending on the number of players I had) sorta like hunting parties I would also have my party continualy making listen checks for the picts war cries to keep the PCs on thier toes. Believing more COULD be on the way!

I love you Infidel-X! That is such a simple but genious idea of handling a situation such as this, yet I have never done it in 20 years of game mastering. I have been trying to put some fear in my players by knocking off a few characters, but it easily escalates to TPK if not handled correctly. Your suggestion is all I need. :twisted:

TTFN,

Yokiboy