No grav tanks needed at higher TL's

[Reynard]

Truth is stranger than science fiction. We aren't swimming the ocean but we're definitely in the pool today.

http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-united-nations-will-debate-the-ethics-of-killer-rob-1574734276/+gmanaugh

We're still a TL 7 or 8 yet already field robotic weapons which aren't reflected in Traveller as combat drones of any type don't appear until TL 12. It seems the only reason you don't see autonomous combots is their universal illegality. In other words, the Imperium had that conference our UN is having. Exactly why would they be illegal? You would think they would be the perfect soldier but someone knows something we don't.

Oh, should we continue this line of discussion on it's own topic and not tangent from the vehicle line of thought?

 

[sideranautae]

Only partially true. They are not truly autonomous, they still require someone operating them remotely (Remote Operations skill).

Nope. There are 2 that can operate without human intervention after launch. For more info work for one of the manufacturers. Excuse me, 3. The F-22 can fight on its own with the pilot disabled.

 

[Anonymous]

Only partially true. They are not truly autonomous, they still require someone operating them remotely (Remote Operations skill).

Nope. There are 2 that can operate without human intervention after launch. For more info work for one of the manufacturers. Excuse me, 3. The F-22 can fight on its own with the pilot disabled.

Sid, educate me, which are the two that are autonomous and are they on pre planned flights or off to roam completely unaided?

Re the F22, is that cos they can't fix the oxygen supply issues and have found it easier to just have the plane fly itself?

 

[sideranautae]

Sid, educate me, which are the two that are autonomous and are they on pre planned flights or off to roam completely unaided?

I can only name the F-22 because that was taken off the list of statutorily classified items. The other 2 remain thus categorized.

Re the F22, is that cos they can't fix the oxygen supply issues and have found it easier to just have the plane fly itself?

:lol: That's a good one! Actually, it was for future, undefined advancements. In the immediate here and now it is in case of G-LOC during a dog fight.

 

[Wil Mireu]

Autonomous drones do exist in some form.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/26/283090909/robot-swarm-a-flock-of-drones-that-fly-autonomously

 

[sideranautae]

Autonomous drones do exist in some form.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/26/283090909/robot-swarm-a-flock-of-drones-that-fly-autonomously

That is a really interesting project. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Anonymous]

WRT the autonomous anonymous drones (hereafter AAD) are we talking combat capable and if so how are ROE determined? Does it have criteria under which it can shoot without human interaction? Is the vehicle air to air or air to ground capable or both?

 

[sideranautae]

WRT the autonomous anonymous drones (hereafter AAD) are we talking combat capable and if so how are ROE determined?

As is the norm, ROE are determined by National Command Authority (NCA).

Does it have criteria under which it can shoot without human interaction?

Covered under programmed ROE.

Is the vehicle air to air or air to ground capable or both?

Air to air, air to ground, air to sea, air to space.

 

[Anonymous]

As is the norm, ROE are determined by National Command Authority (NCA

<snip>

Air to air, air to ground, air to sea, air to space.

You're being unhelpfully vague... :roll:

 

[GypsyComet]

As is the norm, ROE are determined by National Command Authority (NCA

<snip>

Air to air, air to ground, air to sea, air to space.

You're being unhelpfully vague... :roll:

Using things only he knows about to support his statements, no less.

There is a gap between autonomy as a reaction to command lapse and autonomy as SOP. The size of that gap changes depending on who you ask, and has both technological and ethical components.

 

[Condottiere]

A TL13 drone is going to cost you ten million schmuckers, not counting ten thousand per annum routine maintenance.

So the exercise is to train, maintain and retain pilots (level 3) whose lifetime costs are less than that.

 

[sideranautae]

A TL13 drone is going to cost you ten million schmuckers, not counting ten thousand per annum routine maintenance.

Which is of course an insane rule system. a 100 ton star ship cost ~25 mil. Shows how badly the rules are written for that area.

 

[Reynard]

A laptop cost more than a comparable desktop machine and a tablet costs more than the laptop. The joys of miniaturization and putting a brain in it. And. yes, the system has some needed work.

 

[sideranautae]

A laptop cost more than a comparable desktop machine and a tablet costs more than the laptop. The joys of miniaturization and putting a brain in it.

It is just computers. At TL 7 we do it MUCH smaller than Trav rules show for TL 15. The rules need to be rewritten by someone who is at LEAST familiar with tech from the 20th century. Trav uses Babbage computer systems still.

 

[Reynard]

If someone wants to spend BIG money to hire real experts in every conceivable science and practical application the game could have a body of design minutia both realistic and still speculatively represented. Instead we have thirty years of often nonprofessional gamers developing and using a set of evolving rules to create worlds and objects that border more on the cinematic space opera than Hard Science and enjoying it all the while with lively discussions. It works as a game.

Best way to end the agony of it ain't real science is go the route of just about every other sci fi RPG, throw out the building aspect of Traveller and have worlds, weapons and vehicles built very basically. A vessel goes this fast and fires these weapons and also does this function. This world in this location has these sensible features for you to land on. Makes for a much thinner set of books.

Half the fun with Traveller is designing stuff. A design process shouldn't be an engineering thesis yet show effort to make the end product plausible for what the game calls for without glaring or lazy flaws. Keep it simple and consistent. Let me have grav tanks that defend the planet and spaceships that fight in space and give me a sensible robot for the situation!

 

[phavoc]

Traveller was created using 1970's technology. Hell, even before then we were all supposed to be flying around in aircars, nuclear power was to have replaced everything, and we were to have had space colonies. None of which has come to pass.

But tech has changed a lot. We just haven't been using it in the ways the books and magazines said we were going to.

The other issue is that every version of Traveller has more or less remained true to the original one. A few things were added, then taken away, or changed, or morphed into something different. But the core concepts have more or less remained. It is never easy to strike a balance between realism and gaming-friendly concepts.

I think it would be nice to have an overhaul of the rules at some point, but I don't ever see that happening so long as Miller controls Traveller. T5 was an abortive attempt to bring a few new things into the fold and it just failed miserably (in my opinion). It also didn't stray too far from the original concepts.

We (as a gaming community) are probably better off developing your own tweaks to the system and then sharing them with like-minded individuals.

 

[Infojunky]

I think it would be nice to have an overhaul of the rules at some point, but I don't ever see that happening so long as Miller controls Traveller. T5 was an abortive attempt to bring a few new things into the fold and it just failed miserably (in my opinion). It also didn't stray too far from the original concepts.

We (as a gaming community) are probably better off developing your own tweaks to the system and then sharing them with like-minded individuals.

Which rules need yet another overhaul?

Actually this needs it own topic.....

 

[GypsyComet]

A laptop cost more than a comparable desktop machine and a tablet costs more than the laptop. The joys of miniaturization and putting a brain in it.

It is just computers. At TL 7 we do it MUCH smaller than Trav rules show for TL 15. The rules need to be rewritten by someone who is at LEAST familiar with tech from the 20th century. Trav uses Babbage computer systems still.

Don't we already have a topic for that?

 

[sideranautae]

Does it?

Based on how far down the RPG food chain Traveller has fallen, yes. Based on the total disaster that was T5, yes.

 

[sideranautae]

One of the main reasons I hear for NOT playing Traveller (or GURPS) is actually - it is TOO complex from rules/detail level/complexity. That and chargen are the two main reasons around here

Most RPGers I know (and ones I don't know) play games that are far more complex than Mgt - (3.x & PF). So, that isn't a hindrance to the largest block of RPGers. Chargen yes. Which is why I eradicated the "game before you play the game" char gen process.