No grav tanks needed at higher TL's
- Thread starter sideranautae
- Start date
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
I've been trying to do comparisons between Traveller vehicles and spacecraft. The range scales are definitely different. I can find number to compare weapons and sensors plus I found a chart in the MegaTraveller Referee book for converting G thrust to max velocity. What I need to confirm is the scale of Hull, Structure, Armor and weapon damage is equal. True?
I'm using the iconic 10t fighter in High Guard and checking against the G/fighter, G/tank and G/carrier. So far, 6Gs is about 4200kph with the other vehicles much slower but the space fighter is paper thin with a long ranged but very weak gun compared to short ranges and very powerful guns and anti-air missiles.
To be continued...
I'm using the iconic 10t fighter in High Guard and checking against the G/fighter, G/tank and G/carrier. So far, 6Gs is about 4200kph with the other vehicles much slower but the space fighter is paper thin with a long ranged but very weak gun compared to short ranges and very powerful guns and anti-air missiles.
To be continued...
sideranautae
Mongoose
Reynard said:
In what density of atmosphere & what, weight, drag coefficient, etc?
MT had some "interesting" stats scattered around in the rules.
A
Anonymous
Guest
But I thought this was the Mongoose forum?
I'm half jesting, the other half wants to know the answers from within Mongoose... If indeed there is an answer.
With Mongoose being an RPG rather than a war game and I know I've pursued this avidly prior to this post but it all seems futile, most GMs will fudge the results to suit the plot and in an RPG I'm fine with that. I'd like for their to be consistency in the designs of vehicles cos I'm anal like that but in an RPG, hand wave it to make it fit and get on with the fun of gaming.
(It was Dragoner that made me do it, his post earlier about how this is a repeating Traveller topic stopped me in my tunnel vision tracks, time to accept it for what it is and move on but if someone can point me to a design sequence for vehicles from bikes to starships, please PM it to me, thanks!)
I'm half jesting, the other half wants to know the answers from within Mongoose... If indeed there is an answer.
With Mongoose being an RPG rather than a war game and I know I've pursued this avidly prior to this post but it all seems futile, most GMs will fudge the results to suit the plot and in an RPG I'm fine with that. I'd like for their to be consistency in the designs of vehicles cos I'm anal like that but in an RPG, hand wave it to make it fit and get on with the fun of gaming.
(It was Dragoner that made me do it, his post earlier about how this is a repeating Traveller topic stopped me in my tunnel vision tracks, time to accept it for what it is and move on but if someone can point me to a design sequence for vehicles from bikes to starships, please PM it to me, thanks!)
hiro said:
It is mostly, but this is also Traveller with the fact that the Mongoose edition and the first three editions of Traveller by GDW track so closely as to be effectively interchangeable AND well Traveller fans are Rabid in a way strangely different than other rabid fans. The old stuff gets trotted out on a regular basis.
hiro said:
Actually it can, in that this entire discussion stems from a question I asked Matt about the playtest rules he trotted out. And the answer he gave, which is being conflated way beyound it's implication in this thread.
hiro said:
See my 1st answer, kinda. Unfortunately this answer won't be confined to the Mongoose edition. In that Traveller is a RPG, with several Naval Combat games, and even more ground combat games plus a a couple of political/economic games and a mining game or two as well. Then you add on the massive joint background across several editions.
Oh and did I mention it's traditional for printed gear like ships to be unbuildable under all the above rules without a healthy amount of applied Retcon....
So my advice after 30 years of playing and running the game, find the bits that work for you and your group, and ignore that bits that are problematic.
hiro said:
Yah if you poke around the fanbase you will find some amusing bits that are related to some woefully emotionally stupid flame wars of stupid little points that only matter if you use them in your game.
Back to the topic at hand, this thread is mostly pointless, yes at high tech levels there will be things that look like tanks because they are designed with those operational parameters, but the will be using the same sorts of technology that the subcraft flying oh so fast overhead will be. Y'all are arguing about technology Parameters that have been long settled, so what y'all should be discussing what the operation parameters of the vehicles you need to get you specific task done.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, maybe
I have this theory that Mongoose are trying to capitalise on their investment in the rules and are in the process of separating Traveller, the setting from Traveller, the rule set. I'm actually in favour of this but whether my preferences have skewed what little objectivity I have who can say?
The ground work for the rules was created by the setting that came with CT, as the setting developed with very little oversight, it's become fractured. There are too many holes in the OTU setting and they impinge on the rules.
Be good to have the rules even out the errors of the past and give new settings a firm base to grow from.
I have this theory that Mongoose are trying to capitalise on their investment in the rules and are in the process of separating Traveller, the setting from Traveller, the rule set. I'm actually in favour of this but whether my preferences have skewed what little objectivity I have who can say?
The ground work for the rules was created by the setting that came with CT, as the setting developed with very little oversight, it's become fractured. There are too many holes in the OTU setting and they impinge on the rules.
Be good to have the rules even out the errors of the past and give new settings a firm base to grow from.
hiro said:
There ain't no maybe about it, when the Traveller License is gone the OGL portion of the Traveller rules shall remain. Heck, I even agree. I love my some 8+ rules, I love all the additional funkyness mongoose has released that no way in hell mesh with what the "Official Traveller Universe" is.
Or to dredge up a title from the TML many moons ago I am a Traveller Heretic. Man, I am the Fifth Wheel of the Apocalypse.... With I mean I run the game I want to run with little or no remorse about how badly I grunge up the setting.
All that meaning canon only applies to people trying to write in the setting, playing the game it is nobodies business but you and your groups....
hiro said:
I feel your pain man, but allot of the bits are just custom not really all that easy to hardwire into solid game mechanics. (Believe me people have tried, look at GURPs and the Hero System).
Mostly around here the mantra is Traveller is a Toolbox, you take the bits you need and leave the rest.
hiro said:
There you go, make me feel bad! :lol:
Funny thing, real life (TM) has those design sequences, except people either don't know or don't care; ever ask someone what the range/endurance of their car is? So the one that gets by with the minimum is the best, otherwise you wind up with hull/structure gibberish and monocoque is a dirty dirty French word! It is what it is.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Observing some recent news events. One was about regulating battlefield robots while there is lots of mention about the use of drones around the world in our modern TL 7-8 world. It sounds like governments and their militaries would love to push for a more automated fighting force 'to save lives' though I think it's more about control and remote dispassion.
Traveller, has always had robotic units for higher tech levels and Mongoose is no exception yet the growing desire we see in our real world doesn't seem reflected in the game. Drone battle units exist in Traveller but not in great number that would seem possible. Where are the drone small craft fighters, grav tanks and legions of infantry? Somehow I'm sure there would be justification for such units not only 'to save lives' but reduced cost when small robotic brain replace wasteful life support and living space. They can be autonomous or remotes depending on need and technology.
Now we need some designs for exclusive drone transports as well as an assortment of military drones will fill the bill.
Traveller, has always had robotic units for higher tech levels and Mongoose is no exception yet the growing desire we see in our real world doesn't seem reflected in the game. Drone battle units exist in Traveller but not in great number that would seem possible. Where are the drone small craft fighters, grav tanks and legions of infantry? Somehow I'm sure there would be justification for such units not only 'to save lives' but reduced cost when small robotic brain replace wasteful life support and living space. They can be autonomous or remotes depending on need and technology.
Now we need some designs for exclusive drone transports as well as an assortment of military drones will fill the bill.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Drones may be more subject to EMPing and spoofing.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Reynard said:
No, it is about 3 primary things: 1) No pilot to die. 2) without a pilot the performance envelope can be GREATLY increased. 3) See #2.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Being more cynical, I'm working out how much it costs to train and feed a human pilot, compared to spending several million for a drone brain.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Condottiere said:
Today, drone innards are cheaper than pilots. In the future? Cheaper still.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Today, autonomous combat drones are the subject of science fiction, drones are flown by trained pilots/operators sitting in the safety of a cabin or bunker somewhere. How much to train them?
For Traveller purposes shouldn't we treat them as robots? Sentient or otherwise. (arf arf...)
Build in autonomy from the Book 9 rules or Mann 13 (which I haven't yet read) or whichever flavour you prefer.
Re the EMP thing, one of the numerous Traveller rulesets summed it up nicely, base ECM and ECCM on TL and work it from there: apply a DM based on the difference in TL of the two opposing sides. The Assumption being that for each application there is a counter which is reflected well in the abstract by TL.
For Traveller purposes shouldn't we treat them as robots? Sentient or otherwise. (arf arf...)
Build in autonomy from the Book 9 rules or Mann 13 (which I haven't yet read) or whichever flavour you prefer.
Re the EMP thing, one of the numerous Traveller rulesets summed it up nicely, base ECM and ECCM on TL and work it from there: apply a DM based on the difference in TL of the two opposing sides. The Assumption being that for each application there is a counter which is reflected well in the abstract by TL.
sideranautae
Mongoose
hiro said:
:lol:
Hardly. They exist now.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Only partially true. They are not truly autonomous, they still require someone operating them remotely (Remote Operations skill).
True autonomy would not require any living being to tell them what to do.
True autonomy would not require any living being to tell them what to do.
