again chernobyls last efforts put it at armageddon level. guys the SFOS warlock is a good basis, going with more guns than a nemesis or armageddon warlock is putting another EA ship up at that PL. and 2 turns for a warship isnt right, especially EA ones. you want it to be fast then it should be at the same level as the marathon.
Nike Class Battlecruiser
- Thread starter prelude_to_war
- Start date
kritikalfailure
Mongoose
Chernobyl said:
I think the reason we made it advanced was the fact that the missiles are described as being equipped with autoloaders.
kritikalfailure
Mongoose
katadder said:
Eh, 2 turns and speed 10 really doesn't concern me. Speed tends to be more harmful than helpful when you're trying to get weapons boresighted.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that if the Narn can design a ship at War level, then I bet the Earth Alliance can pull it out too.
This is what I'm going to be testing out today:
Nike-Class Battlecruiser
War-PL
Hull 6
Speed 8
Turns: 2 45
Interceptors 4
Flight Computer
Advanced Jump Point
Troops: 2
Craft: 2 Thunderbolts
Damage: 70/15
Crew: 70/20
Weapons:
Boresight: Heavy Particle Cannon. 25" 4AD. SAP, Beam, TD.
Turret: Railgun. 20" 6AD. AP DD
Turret: Adv. Missile Rack. 30" 4AD. SAP, Precise, Slow-loading (ignores until crippled)
Turret: Particle Beam. 5" 6AD. AF, Weak
Fore: Laser/Pulse Arrays. 15" 8AD. Twin-Linked
Port/Stardboard/Aft: Laser/Pulse Arrays. 15" 6AD. Twin-Linked
Ok, in looking at the SFoS Warlock, here's where how it breaks down:
Nike Advantages:
1 extra turn.
2" extra speed.
Ability to dump missiles and railguns in any arc.
Flight Computer.
Gains 2 AD on aft Laser/Pulse array.
Warlock Advantages:
Command +1
4 additional Troops
2 additional flights
10 extra crew
2 extra AD to front Laser/Pulse array.
Ok, looking at these numbers, I think things come out even. Yes by the numbers the Nike will be dumping out 2 more missiles per turn than the Warlock (4 every turn vs 6 every other turn), and it will be able to bring its missiles/railguns to bear easier.
However, I think this is the stat-line we would have developed if the Warlock hadn't been bumped to Armageddon considering the background and the role of the two different ships.
The Warlock is a primarily front firing vessel. The extra AD on the fore weapons along with the missiles being mounted to the fore confirms this.
The Nike is supposed to be a fast vessel that is more nimble than the Warlock. It also seems to cover more arcs effectively.
Though here's an idea. Any reasonable person is going to want to fire the Heavy Particle Cannon as often as possible. Therefore I'd think you'd _want_ to have a lot of crap mounted to your front in order to really maximize your damage on one ship.
A side-by-side comparison with the Marathon:
Nike:
Gains a 75% increase in damage.
Gains a 55% increase in crew.
Gains turret Railguns.
Gains turret Missiles.
Gains 2 AD on front and aft weapons.
Gains 2 AD on turret Particle Beam
Loses aft Boresight weapon.
Loses 2" speed.
Loses 1" range on Particle Beams.
Loses 2 Troops.
So in short, what we've done is take a Battle level ship, add some weapons, make it slower, and take some weapons and troops away from it, and give it an increase in damage/crew.
I for one see no reason how this design could be over the top. In fact I'm not convinced it's strong enough, as looking at it, I see no reason not to take 2 Marathons instead of it.
Goldritter
Mongoose
The turreted Missiles are a big PLUS.
4 AD every round and with Heavy Missiles it will be a real hard hitter.
4 AD every round and with Heavy Missiles it will be a real hard hitter.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Personally I think all missiles and torpedoes on any ship (if theyre guided missiles anyway) should be turreted, afterall, surely as long as you have a sensor lock on the target the missiles can simply turn after they launch).
Hmmm try this...
Nike-class Battlecruiser (Crusade Era EA)
PL: War
Hull: 6
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Troops: 3
Craft: 2 Thunderbolts
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Flight Computer, Interceptors 4, Self-repair (say 2 for now)
Damage: 58 / 18
Crew: 55 / 20
Weapons
Heavy Particle Cannon ----------- B - 25" - 4AD - Beam, SAP, TD
Missile Rack ----------------------- F - 30" - 8AD - Precise, SAP, SL
Q-Lasers ---------------------------- F - 16" - 2AD - MB, AP
Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannons - F - 12" - 8AD - AP, DD
Particle Cannons ------------------ T - 5" --- 8AD - AF, TL
Q-Lasers ---------------------------- T - 16" -- 4AD - MB, AP
Railguns ----------------------------- T - 12" -- 4AD - AP. DD
stats edited as new proposal
Nike-class Battlecruiser (Crusade Era EA)
PL: War
Hull: 6
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Troops: 3
Craft: 2 Thunderbolts
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Flight Computer, Interceptors 4, Self-repair (say 2 for now)
Damage: 58 / 18
Crew: 55 / 20
Weapons
Heavy Particle Cannon ----------- B - 25" - 4AD - Beam, SAP, TD
Missile Rack ----------------------- F - 30" - 8AD - Precise, SAP, SL
Q-Lasers ---------------------------- F - 16" - 2AD - MB, AP
Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannons - F - 12" - 8AD - AP, DD
Particle Cannons ------------------ T - 5" --- 8AD - AF, TL
Q-Lasers ---------------------------- T - 16" -- 4AD - MB, AP
Railguns ----------------------------- T - 12" -- 4AD - AP. DD
stats edited as new proposal
how many forward guns you want? and 8AD on non slow loading missile rack? also the nemesis has mini beams and so does away with the particle beams for anti fighter so would suggest the same, or even if you keep it lower the AD (armageddon warlock has 6AD of antifighter turreted). i swear you are trying to make this another armagddon ship chernobyl.
someonementioned the narn fast warship with 2 turns, one thing you may have noticed on that is that its firepower is seriously down from a bin'tak. think along the same lines if you want this to be fast and manourvable too.
someonementioned the narn fast warship with 2 turns, one thing you may have noticed on that is that its firepower is seriously down from a bin'tak. think along the same lines if you want this to be fast and manourvable too.
To much Chernobyl do like the feel, made some adjustments:
Nike-class Battlecruiser (Crusade Era EA)
PL: War
Hull: 6
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Troops: 3
Craft: 2 Thunderbolts
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Flight Computer, Interceptors 4, Self-repair (say 1 for now)
Damage: 70 / 18
Crew: 65 / 20
Weapons
Heavy Particle Cannon --------- B - 25" - 4AD - Beam, SAP, TD
Advanced Missile Rack --------- T - 30" - 4AD - Precise, SAP, SL*
Q-Lasers ------------------------- F - 16" - 2AD - MB, AP
Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannons - F - 12" - 8AD - AP
Particle Cannons ---------------- P - 5" --- 5AD - AF
Particle Cannons ---------------- S - 5" --- 5AD - AF
Q-Lasers ------------------------- T - 16" -- 4AD - MB, AP
Railguns -------------------------- T - 20" -- 4AD - AP. DD
* This weapon ignores the slow-loading trait unless crippled.
Nike-class Battlecruiser (Crusade Era EA)
PL: War
Hull: 6
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Troops: 3
Craft: 2 Thunderbolts
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Flight Computer, Interceptors 4, Self-repair (say 1 for now)
Damage: 70 / 18
Crew: 65 / 20
Weapons
Heavy Particle Cannon --------- B - 25" - 4AD - Beam, SAP, TD
Advanced Missile Rack --------- T - 30" - 4AD - Precise, SAP, SL*
Q-Lasers ------------------------- F - 16" - 2AD - MB, AP
Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannons - F - 12" - 8AD - AP
Particle Cannons ---------------- P - 5" --- 5AD - AF
Particle Cannons ---------------- S - 5" --- 5AD - AF
Q-Lasers ------------------------- T - 16" -- 4AD - MB, AP
Railguns -------------------------- T - 20" -- 4AD - AP. DD
* This weapon ignores the slow-loading trait unless crippled.
Kat, you misread my intentions. I was simply trying to put it in line with the background of the original creator, and interpolating what I see on the diagram the model is based on. The creator as far as I know, hasn't based his creations on any kind of expectations of a game, and certainly not our expectations either.
ask any minbari player if he'd rather use minibeams in the anti-ship role or anti-fighter role and I'm guessing a lot would say anti ship - otherwise you're not using the full potential of an 18" range weapon.
The EA on the other hand, clearly has a well established weapon system for anti-fighter purposes. Including some of of them doesn't place a burden on its crews, maintenance, or supply lines.
The new fangled Q-lasers are great at anti-shipping as it punches through inteceptors, which is why I think they're included on the ship. The mini-beams side effect of being good at anti-fighter is great, but not the intended role in my mind. In fact, having the particle beams pretty much displays the intent of using them in an anti-shipping role.
Also, something we haven't really considered is that the load of offensive firepower and high speed could be balanced by lowering the damage and crew scores further.
Chern
ask any minbari player if he'd rather use minibeams in the anti-ship role or anti-fighter role and I'm guessing a lot would say anti ship - otherwise you're not using the full potential of an 18" range weapon.
The EA on the other hand, clearly has a well established weapon system for anti-fighter purposes. Including some of of them doesn't place a burden on its crews, maintenance, or supply lines.
The new fangled Q-lasers are great at anti-shipping as it punches through inteceptors, which is why I think they're included on the ship. The mini-beams side effect of being good at anti-fighter is great, but not the intended role in my mind. In fact, having the particle beams pretty much displays the intent of using them in an anti-shipping role.
Also, something we haven't really considered is that the load of offensive firepower and high speed could be balanced by lowering the damage and crew scores further.
Chern
Goldritter
Mongoose
What is, when you increase the turreted Q-Lasers and Railguns to 6AD each ?
The Marathon and the Warlock has a range of 6" for their Particle Beams.
I would suggest to give the Particle Beams on the Nike 6" too.
The Marathon and the Warlock has a range of 6" for their Particle Beams.
I would suggest to give the Particle Beams on the Nike 6" too.
Goldritter
Mongoose
Chernobyl said:
I´ve looked at the G`Vrahn and think, that the Nike is a littlebit underpowerd.
If the Damage and Crew don´t change I would suggest, that the turreted Q-Laser get 8AD and the Railgun 6AD.
I`m the opinion too, that the Q-Laser in the Front should be merged with the Turret Q-Laser. (Like the Heavy Pulse Cannon on the Victory.)
The Particel Beams should get 6".
well this thing just seems to be getting more powerful by the day. definately anyone will take on over an EA armageddon ship, let alone 2. i can say for certain that no one will ever use one against me unless mongoose comes out with something official as you guys seem to just want to make it as powerful as possible.
Goldritter
Mongoose
katadder said:
Can you please specify, why this is too powerfull ?
I think it´s so good for a War-Level ship. And I´ve tried to compare it against G`Vrahn, which is the only War-Level with 2/45° turn and high Speed.
missile racks, 12AD of AP DD weapons, 4 of which in any direction, 6AD of mini beams, 2 of which in any direction, 8AD of anti fighter, self repair and this is comparing it to a g'vrahn the benefits it has. yes the g'vrah has 2 beams, and emines and torpedos but it doesnt have an additional 18AD of AP weapons, 12 of which doing DD.
Goldritter
Mongoose
No it has
10 AD F/P/S
6 AD B SAP,B,DD
3 AD F SAP,B,TD
4 AD F SAP,P
8 AD F E-Mine
The front TD is a ral advantage for the G`Vrahn, and the 4 AD SAP,P does hurt too.
The G`Vrahn has a Command +2 which can realy a help for the Fleet and the chance that it will fire first is realy high.
The G`Vrah has 80 Damage and 90 Crew and the Thresholds for Crippled and Skeleton are lower as on the Nike, so the G`Vrahn can hold out longer in a fight.
The G`Vrahn carries 5 Frazi flights 3 more than the Nike which can be a realy big thorn, and with the e-maines it can hinder enemy flights on 45".
So I think the Nike in this comfiguration is nice in comparison with the G`Vrahn.
10 AD F/P/S
6 AD B SAP,B,DD
3 AD F SAP,B,TD
4 AD F SAP,P
8 AD F E-Mine
The front TD is a ral advantage for the G`Vrahn, and the 4 AD SAP,P does hurt too.
The G`Vrahn has a Command +2 which can realy a help for the Fleet and the chance that it will fire first is realy high.
The G`Vrah has 80 Damage and 90 Crew and the Thresholds for Crippled and Skeleton are lower as on the Nike, so the G`Vrahn can hold out longer in a fight.
The G`Vrahn carries 5 Frazi flights 3 more than the Nike which can be a realy big thorn, and with the e-maines it can hinder enemy flights on 45".
So I think the Nike in this comfiguration is nice in comparison with the G`Vrahn.
