News from JMS

[shalazar_bation]

hmmm, I missed that one

Ummm, but I'm sure if they did a full feature film it couldn't be that bad.... hopefully :wink:


Shalazar
The hopefull

 

[Ross O'Gallagher]

Ramachil wrote:

How about this as title?

B5: The Movement of Shadows

That just sounds rather...biological. And disgusting. I don't think I'd want to see that.

That title was on the list along with The Mark, Minions, and Memory Of Shadows that appeared on Usenet a few months ago. JMS said one of the titles on that list was correct. Most of the rest were jokes. Those four were the only ones that sounded probable to me.

 

[CARTMAG]

personaly the only two that realy sound plausable to me would be The Memory of Shadows or The Mark of Shadows..... the others dont sound like great titles... personaly id put money on The Memory of Shadows myself...

 

[slingbld]

personaly the only two that realy sound plausable to me would be The Memory of Shadows or The Mark of Shadows..... the others dont sound like great titles... personaly id put money on The Memory of Shadows myself...

I could see Mark of Shadows... If it conentrated on the Cetauri....

 

[Silverthorne]

hmmm, I missed that one

The name of the movie was the Legend of the Rangers.. but it was not about a historical group of rangers, but a group of rangers in the current time frame, without a solid reference. I personally liked the movie. But it seemed to be dry in the delivery. Hints were thrown about Gkar spent much time with the Lyta. The Telepath war is over.. lots of references but no actual time frame. The weapons systems on the ship that they are given, is antiquated (with that kind of firing system I understand why.) Narn and Drazzi Rangers, OK I liked the idea.

 

[Mongoose Si]

One of my thoughts is that it could be about the return of Valen His return is hinted at in several episodes.

I think Sinclair WAS the return of Valen.

Sinclair was Valen yes, but there are several mentions of Valen returning at some point. IMO, this seems to be part of the Minbari mythology (and is reminisant of the idea of the second coming) .

Some examples:

1. Confessions and Lamentations - during the meal with Delen, Lennier & Sheridan, there is a place set aside for Valen.

2. Moments of Transition - When Delen rebuilds the Grey Council and 'reserves a spot for when the one returns!'.

I'm sure there are other references to this, but can't think of any more right now.

 

[lastbesthope]

One of my thoughts is that it could be about the return of Valen His return is hinted at in several episodes.

I think Sinclair WAS the return of Valen.

Sinclair was Valen yes, but there are several mentions of Valen returning at some point. IMO, this seems to be part of the Minbari mythology (and is reminisant of the idea of the second coming) .

Some examples:

1. Confessions and Lamentations - during the meal with Delen, Lennier & Sheridan, there is a place set aside for Valen.

2. Moments of Transition - When Delen rebuilds the Grey Council and 'reserves a spot for when the one returns!'.

I'm sure there are other references to this, but can't think of any more right now.

First, I apologise for this being so long but I tend to go off on one when I begin to expound my knowledge of B5.

Ok I have literally just rechecked this on my DVDs

1. Confessions and Lamentations is Season 2 Episode 18. At this point only the Grey council and possibly a few high up Minbari (maybe even Lennier) know that Sinclair carries the soul of Valen. Delenn asks Sheridan to set a piece of Flarn aside "in memory of Valen, in the place that is set aside for him". Even though Delenn knows Valen/Sinclair are one and the same, if Lennier doesn't she must maintain the facade. If Lennier did know, Sheridan certainly didn't. IMHO the chances are the Minbari would continue to revere Valen/Sinclair even if they knew the truth. Their respect for great people is not limited to their own race as shown by the respect Delenn gives Aldous Gajic as a "true seeker" in the Season 1 episode Grail, even though he is human.

2 In moments of Transition, she reserves the spot in memory of Neroon (presumably for his sacrifice in the StarFire wheel) and for the One who is to come. She could just as easily mean the return of Neroon's soul in another body as much as she could mean Valen/Sinclair's soul.

If I remember rightly the prophecies of Valens return, date from (relatively) shortly after the time of Valen's appearance on B4, life and then death. Prophecy being what it is "the return" could refer to not only Valen's soul being reborn in Sinclair's body but also to Sinclair's journey back in time to be Valen.

Also the Minbari believe that souls are continuosly reborn so chance are Valen's and Neroon's soul have been around the block a few times by now.
So you can continually await the return of any one soul, presumably though only the great ones of note are revered in this way. Valen obviously and maybe Dukhat and even Delenn in the future. just a guess that part.

As Vir once said (I can't remember which episode)
"Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor."

 

[Mongoose Si]

Thanks checking up on those quotes. You make some interesting points there. "The return" could indeed mean something entirly different.

As with many things in B5, we are given just enough info to encourage discussion (which has obviously worked in this case) but not enough to know for certain - I guess that's why we like it so much

If I remember rightly the prophecies of Valens return, date from (relatively) shortly after the time of Valen's appearance on B4, life and then death.

I was not aware of that, I think I assumed that the mythos about Valen dated back to when he was around 1000 years ago, but what you say makes sense.

Also the Minbari believe that souls are continuosly reborn so chance are Valen's and Neroon's soul have been around the block a few times by now.

Good point.

But, something else to think on is that nothing is known of Valens death (this point was made in Attonements I think). If Valen came from the future, what is to stop him returning there once his work during the previous Shadow War was complete?

As Vir once said (I can't remember which episode)
"Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor."

 

[Kayne]

Of all the titles I've seen in this thread I think I'd place my money on:

B5: The Movement of Shadows

Not only does it sound plausible, it also relates nicely to Sinclair's warning to Garibaldi in season 2's The Coming of Shadows that he should keep an eye on the shadows because "they move when you're not looking at them".

That and the title was on JMS's list of 4 possibles.

 

[Eryx]

Valen was a great figure in their history and faith, so the setting aside a place for him at table is a ritual of respect.

 

[lastbesthope]

Sorry, another long one.

If I remember rightly the prophecies of Valens return, date from (relatively) shortly after the time of Valen's appearance on B4, life and then death.

I was not aware of that, I think I assumed that the mythos about Valen dated back to when he was around 1000 years ago, but what you say makes sense.

I think you and I are both referring to the same point in time here. B4 reappeared 1000 years ago (Circa 1258 Earth calendar).

Also the Minbari believe that souls are continuosly reborn so chance are Valen's and Neroon's soul have been around the block a few times by now.

Good point.

But, something else to think on is that nothing is known of Valens death (this point was made in Attonements I think). If Valen came from the future, what is to stop him returning there once his work during the previous Shadow War was complete?

We do know a little of his death, and of his life after his return to the past on B4. For a start he had a lot of work to do, fighting the Shadows, pacifying the clans and forming the Grey council and then guiding the Minbari for many years, he was their leader for quite some time after all. Also at the end of B5 Novel #9 "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", after the events of War Without End, Marcus is given a very old letter by Sech Turval. It is written on very old paper and in handwriting seems to be Sinclair's according to Marcus. The message reads "From both of us, our thanks and friendship. Continue to dream that better future . . . where perhaps we'll meet again."

Now you could say "both of us" is a cryptic reference to Sinclair/Valen's duality, or it could mean that Valen was reunited with Catherine Sakai somehow after she fell through the time rift earlier in the episode. We know from Atonement that Sinclair/Valen had children, it could be he had those with a Minbari-ized Catherine, or just fell for a cute acolyte. :wink:

We also hear a little more of his life in the comic "In Valen's name" but I haven't read it in a while so I can't remember much of it. However at the end, Delenn discovers a vid message from Valen, which he hopes Delenn, Michael, Catherine or Susan will find. He says it's been a good life . . lives and in the end he is happy and he has found her. Who "her" is I don't know, you might think Catherine Sakai, but who else would the Catherine be who he hoped would find the message, we know Sakai was lost in time during "Sorrows". I think this might be a continuity error that slipped into the comic, as if B4 had been found before he left, or before Sakai was lost surely Sinclair/Valen would have known.

As for travelling back to the future, only the Great Machine has the technology for that (Unless you could find a Delorean ), whether the then Guardian would let Sinclair/Valen use it for that purpose is debatable. And opening a time rift that far in the past could have serious ramifications as well. I think Sinclair/Valen was happy to remain in the past, with whoever "her" was. Sinclair/Valen himself fears changing the "future" lest it allow the Shadows to win. He is convinced by the Vorlons of the past not to send a message to Delenn to prevent the Earth-Minbari war.

Valen was a great figure in their history and faith, so the setting aside a place for him at table is a ritual of respect.

I agree, IMHO I think they would do it even if they knew all about Sinclair/Valen and knew that all his prophecies had been completed.

 

[lastbesthope]

A quick correction to my last post.

We also hear a little more of his life in the comic "In Valen's name" but I haven't read it in a while so I can't remember much of it. However at the end, Delenn discovers a vid message from Valen, which he hopes Delenn, Michael, Catherine or Susan will find. He says it's been a good life . . lives and in the end he is happy and he has found her. Who "her" is I don't know, you might think Catherine Sakai, but who else would the Catherine be who he hoped would find the message, we know Sakai was lost in time during "Sorrows". I think this might be a continuity error that slipped into the comic, as if B4 had been found before he left, or before Sakai was lost surely Sinclair/Valen would have known.

I just dug out the graphic novel of "In Valen's Name". There is an interview with JMS included at the front and he admits that including Catherine's name in the end vid message was a mistake. This lends credence to my theory that Sinclair/Valen did find Catherine Sakai in the past, she would be the "her" to whom he refers.

I'm beginning to think that my friends who suggest I get out more may be right