New to d20

[rgrove0172]

Im a veteran gamer with 20+ years of mixed boardgame, miniatures and roleplaying experience - but Ive never played d20. The closest Ive ever come is the old AD&D from the early 80s. Ive recently purchased a huge lot of Conan RPG material and am psyched about finally campaigning in my favorite fantasy author's world. Will my inexperience with d20 be a problem? Ive heard so much (bad and good) about d20 but am still unclear as to if its the perfect system or a relic of old game thinking that refuses to die. Comments?

 

[Yogah of Yag]

May I recommend D&D for Dummies?

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Dummies-Bill-Slavicsek/dp/0764584596/sr=8-1/qid=1160497728/ref=sr_1_1/002-9099974-5864854?ie=UTF8&s=books

Conan is somewhat different than 3.0/3.5 D&D, but if you're totally uninitiated this may help.

Otherwise you can consult http://www.d20srd.org for more info.

 

[MGBM]

Well, I have about 19 years of experience in RPGs as a GM and, before Conan, I too didn't have any experience with d20.

Conan was a good introduction to d20, well OGL really, and I liked it. I mean, it's not my favourite system since I like too many systems and all of them have their advantages and disadvantages to have a favourite, but I like playing Conan.

With Conan my opinion of d20 is that it's a nice system, nothing special, but nice for what it does and from what I read Conan is the best d20 variant available at the moment.

 

[rgrove0172]

Help clue me in if you can. Where did d20 originate? Was it an eventual extension of the D&D variants? Is it basically a version of D&D that took on a life of its own to project into other genres? Was it the master brainchild of WoTC to dominate the market? Sorry, but Im curious as to its origins and developement.

 

[mthomason]

Was it the master brainchild of WoTC to dominate the market?

That's pretty much it

The idea was that by releasing the core D&D 3rd edition (and later v3.5) rules in an open form (using a licence called the Open Game Licence, or OGL), other companies would write campaign settings, scenarios, and basically do an immense job of product support. This in turn would bring more players into using d20 as a single system. While not obligatory, the d20 logo license that allows companies to identify their products as being compatible includes a requirement to put on the cover of your product:

"Requires the use of the Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook, by Wizards of the Coast". (at least, something very much like that - I don't have a copy handy to check the exact phrasing)

So it was essentially a marketing exercise by WotC to sell more copies of the D&D PHB. And if they sold more PHBs, they then had more customers hooked to sell the official D&D product line to. Where before gamers were split between numerous systems, after d20 there was a huge influx of new players to the system - just as WotC had hoped.

As an offshoot, some companies started using the OGL-released d20 rules to create full systems (such as Mongoose with the Conan line), with no logo and no reference to D&D. There's an unfortunate tendancy for people to think of this as the "OGL System", when in reality OGL is just the licence it was released under, and the same licence used by other systems (for example RuneQuest). These non-logoed systems are standalone and often deviate in some ways from the base D&D rules that mean they are not 100% compatable (but certainly easy enough to tweak if you want to).

Incidently - Mongoose are now trying the same thing with RuneQuest, releasing the core RuneQuest rules under the very same Open Game Licence, which means third party publishers can publish supplements for the RuneQuest system and put a logo on the cover.

The logo licences used by both d20 and RuneQuest tend to be mutually beneficial - the smaller third-party publisher gets to identify their new product with an established line and gets a ready-made customer base, while the larger publisher sells more copies of their core book (and usually their own supplements as a knock-on effect).

The downside of all this is that *anyone* can publish a d20 supplement. That means that something with a d20 logo on it has absolutely no guarantee of quality. As you can imagine, in the few years it's been out there have been many (some would say too many) third-party publishers jumping on the d20 bandwagon, and it can get a little tricky finding the good ones in the huge mass of d20 material out there now

There. I think thats as concise as I can get it

 

[rgrove0172]

Thanks, I appreciate the explanation!

 

[Spectator]

I can't believe someone (actually a lot, based on the number of reviews) bought the Dummies Guide to Deedle Dee!

If I marketed a bottle of Gary Gygax's flatuence on Ebay I'm sure some enormous amount of knuckleheads would bid it up.

I'm just stupified.

 

[argo]

To be perfectly honest I would not recomend Conan as the best introduction to the d20 system. I consider it to be more of an "advanced toolkit" IMO. Still I encourage you to go for it. The d20 system has a bit of a steep learning curve for those not used to it, however once you get over the initial hurdle it is prety smooth to run and play with.

And if you have any questions don't hesitate to post them here, this is a prety helpfull board all-in-all.


As to your second question. d20 is basically the DnD system with a few key bits of intelectual property taken out. This system was then released for free under the Open Game Liscence or OGL (if you are familiar with open software like linux then you will understand it is a similar concept). It was a "master brainchild" of WotC as a sort of response to the balkanization of the industry durring the 90's. The concept was that if thrid-party publishers could freely produce dnd supplements or at least materials that are compatable with the core dnd engine then it will bring more customers in the door; gamers who might not jump at the chance to play dnd might be attracted by something like Scarred Lands or Iron Kingdoms. And once they are on board the d20 bandwagon there are good odds that they will eventually buy some WotC product, probably at least the core rulebooks if nothing else. Also, by trying to promote the health of the marketplace in general the OGL works to bring more gamers into the hobby, expand the hobby and just generally promote the long-term health of the industry. IOW a rising tide lifts all boats.

Personally I think its been mostly a good thing. But some folks would call me a fanboy. :shrug:

Anyway, Conan is probably my favorite d20 variant, in preference even to DnD so I think you've made a good choice. Happy gamming!

Later.

 

[rgrove0172]

Well it sounds like Im diving into a quality product if nothing else. I suppose I was predisposed by some of the gaming circles I ran in to kind of question anything to do with WoTC or D&D - as old fashioned, quirky and such. There is such a tremendous following though that one has to wonder how the negative hype can be factual. Im looking forward to trying it out for myself.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

I'd like to add to my last post. I haven't bought D&D for Dummies--I had heard about it and thought it might help. (sound of furious backpedaling).
Here's Conan for Dummies:

Weapons are more ouchie.
Massive Damage Threshold is lower. Uh-oh..
Prepare to die, hapless mortal.

 

[Foxworthy]

I can't believe someone (actually a lot, based on the number of reviews) bought the Dummies Guide to Deedle Dee!

If I marketed a bottle of Gary Gygax's flatuence on Ebay I'm sure some enormous amount of knuckleheads would bid it up.

I'm just stupified.

I bought it. It's a helpful little book and while I knew and did most of what it talked about, many people I've RPed with over the years could have used the help.

It's been great for new players to D20. I also found that the peopel who thought it couldn't help them were the ones that needed the help the most.

 

[rgrove0172]

I actually have a copy of the Players Handbook for 3.5 I believe, would it clear up any problems I might run into with Conan, or would the Dummies book still be a good buy? If so, I assume the 3.5 dummies book is what Id be looking for right?

 

[Foxworthy]

Well the dummies book wouldn't be that needed for Conan. It mostly goes into how to make characters and explains some of the concepts of D&D, it does have some useful advice on roleplaying and DMing that people new to RPG games or people that focus more on the stats on the paper to help them created a persona and what not. But 2/3 of the book won't be helpful to Conan.

The PHB 3.5 is great to have though because some of the d20 terms used in Conan aren't defined and the PHB's glossary can be a life saver when it comes to translating game terms into English.

I like D&D for Dummies and it's a great book and a good read if you ever plan to run D&D 3.5 but I wouldn't give it to a new player for Conan. The diffrences between D&D and Conan are enough to confuse a new gamer. I wouldn't even let anew gamer read the PHB if I was runnig Conan.

The Dummies book has a lot of common sense info for a gamer. Some good stuff about workign with the group and what not, and i've learnt that common sense isn't really common either. If you have a mature group that's pretty sharp and don't have have problems working together than D&D for Dummies is basically worthless for Conan.

 

[Sutek]

Dungeon Mastering for Dummies is awesome. Lots of great tips.

The 3.5 PHB and the Atlantean Edition of Conan are perfectly adequate for getting you up to speep on D20. You'll find that aspects of Conan are more intricately complex in an inter-dependant sort of way than straigh 3.5 D&D, but that's because it came after ward and was tailored to feel like Conan. This sort of thing crops up in Race bonuses, really, so there's not a lot of exceptions where base game mechanics are concerned.

I think you'll find it a very tight system, and a lot more flexible and maleable than a lot of people give it credit for. I really love it, in spite of my decades of original D&D gaming history.

Do feel more than welcome to ask questions too if ther are bits that aren't clear to you. It's a dense bunch of rules and there's a lot of overlap that isn't flat-out stated, so it may feel like you're reading something and thinking "Didn't I just read something about that somewhere?" a lot of the time.

8)