New Star Wars Mod thread

[Ben2]

I've been giving Star Wars conversions a bit of thought. Last thread got hijacked so starting a new one. - Opinions please?

Turbolasers - treat exactly like pulse weaponry - simple straight dice.

Heavy turbolasers - as above but cause double damage

Ion cannon - damage dice are not rolled on a successful hit, but a critical dice is.

On the weapons below, I am happy with the number of dice being rolled, but am wondering whether the ranges are right. Should the standard turbolaser range be higher, say 20? However this puts it on a par with heavy lasers on many ACTA B5 ships but with substantially better arcs. Fighting ACTA ships would put them at a distinct disadvantage, as shields would protect Star Wars ships for a round and ion cannons would cause automatic criticals on their opponents.
The question is what do people think?

Shields are more problematic.

They can be represented in a number of ways:-

A negative modifier to the damage dice.

A number of shield boxes (this is how it was represented in B5W, with a number of boxes able to be regenerated each turn)

A Dodge or stealth type roll.

Scaling - In order to keep star wars battles at a manageable scale each flight in fact represents a squadron.

Example ships

Nebulon B Frigate

Priority Level: Skirmish
Move: 6
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 18/5
Shields: 12
Crew: 20/5
Craft: 1 X-wing and 1 Y-wing, or 1 Tie fighter and 1 Tie bomber.
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Shield recharge D3

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 6
Turbolaser 15 P 2
Turbolaser 15 S 2
Laser Cannon 6 F 4 Weak, Anti-fighter
Laser Cannon 6 P 2 Weak, Anti-fighter
Laser Cannon 6 S 2 Weak, Anti-fighter

Carrack Class Light Cruiser

Priority Level: Skirmish
Move: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 20/5
Shields: 10
Crew: 20/5
Craft: None
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Shield recharge D3

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 1
Turbolaser 15 P 2
Turbolaser 15 S 2
Turbolaser 15 A 1
Laser Cannon 6 F 3 Weak, Anti-fighter
Laser Cannon 6 P 3 Weak, Anti-fighter
Laser Cannon 6 S 3 Weak, Anti-fighter
Laser Cannon 6 A 3 Weak, Anti-fighter

Corellian Corvette

Priority Level: Patrol
Move: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 10/3
Shields: 6
Crew: 10/3
Craft: None.
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Shield recharge 1.

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 2
Turbolaser 15 P 1
Turbolaser 15 S 1
Turbolaser 15 A 1

Rendi Stardrive Dreadnought

Priority Level: Raid
Move: 4
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 28/6
Shields: 12
Crew: 10/3
Craft: 1 Tie Fighter or 1 X-wing
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Shield recharge 1D3.

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 2
Turbolaser 15 P 4
Turbolaser 15 S 4
Turbolaser 15 A 1



Mon Calamari MC80 Class Star Cruiser

Priority Level: Battle
Move: 5
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 70/18
Shields: 30
Crew: 80/20
Craft: 2 X-wing, 2 Y-wing
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Carrier 2, Shield recharge D6

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 6
Turbolaser 15 P 6
Turbolaser 15 S 6
Turbolaser 15 A 6
Ion Cannon 12 F 3 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 P 3 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 S 3 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 A 3 Ion weapon

Victory Class Star Destroyer

Priority Level: Battle
Move: 5
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 80/22
Shields: 25
Crew: 88/22
Craft: 2 Tie Fighters
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Shield recharge D3

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 5 Weak
Turbolaser 15 P 8 Weak
Turbolaser 15 S 8 Weak
Quad Laser 12 F 3
Quad Laser 12 P 3
Concussion 14 B 8 Double Damage
Missiles


Imperial Star Destroyer

Priority Level: War
Move: 4
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 85/22
Shields: 30
Crew: 100/24
Craft: 3 Tie Fighter, 2 Tie Interceptor, 1 Tie Bomber
Special Rules: Hyperspace, Carrier 2, Shield recharge D6

Weapons

Weapon Range Arc AD Special Rules
Turbolaser 15 F 10
Turbolaser 15 P 10
Turbolaser 15 S 10
Ion Cannon 12 F 4 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 P 3 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 S 3 Ion weapon
Ion Cannon 12 A 2 Ion weapon

Tie Fighter

Priority: Skirmish 5 squadrons/point
Speed: 10
Turns: SM
Hull: 3
Dogfight: +1
Special Rules: Dodge 2+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2 Weak

Tie Interceptor

Priority: Skirmish 3 squadrons/point
Speed: 12
Turns: SM
Hull: 3
Dogfight: +2
Special Rules: Dodge 2+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2

Tie Bomber

Priority: Skirmish 4 squadrons/point
Speed: 8
Turns: SM
Hull: 3
Dogfight: -1
Special Rules: Dodge 4+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2 Weak
Torpedoes 4 T 2 AP

Incom-65 X-wing Fighter

Priority: Skirmish 2 squadrons/point
Speed: 10
Turns: SM
Hull: 4
Dogfight: +2
Special Rules: Dodge 2+, Fighter, Hyperspace

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2

Y-wing Fighter-Bomber

Priority: Skirmish 3 squadrons/point
Speed: 8
Turns: SM
Hull: 4
Dogfight: +0
Special Rules: Dodge 3+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2 Weak
Ion Cannon 2 T 1
Torpedoes 4 T 2 AP

 

[Lord David the Denied]

No. Just no.

For a start, worrying about comparing Star Wars ships to B5 ships is madness. Even in the most insane circumstances imaginible the two could never come together. The purpose of this should be to set up a decent rules set for Star Wars space combat on the fleet scale.

Thus, the standard six fighters per flight arrangement should be kept. So a Nebulon-B Frigate would have two X-Wing flights and two Y-Wing flights, or later in the timeline, two X-Wing flights, one Y-Wing flight and one A-Wing flight.

Most larger capital ships should have twin-linked on their turbolasers and heavy turbolasers as these weapons are almost always mounted in double or quadruple turrets on ships above light cruiser scale.

Here's my take on the Carrack-class light cruiser in Imperial Navy configuration (shamelessly robbing some of your stats):

Move: 12
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 25/5
Shields: 10
Crew 20/5
Craft: 1 TIE Fighter flight
Special: Hyperdrive, Shield recharge D3

Weapons:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special

Heavy turbolaser 20 F 6 Double Damage
Heavy Turbolaser 20 P 2 Double Damage
Heavy Turbolaser 20 S 2 Double Damage
Ion Cannon 12 F 5 Ion
Ion Cannon 12 P 2 Ion
Ion Cannon 12 S 2 Ion

I've left PL off as that could easily change as stats are debated, but I'd put it around Raid. Speed is so high because the fluff (Star Wars Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels) I read says it's as fast as an X-Wing. It also says it has ten heavy turbolasers and twenty ion cannons. I've left off the tractor beams but some special rule could be cooked up for those, similar to the gravitic shifters in ACtA.

 

[LordClinto]

Tie Bomber

Priority: Skirmish 4 squadrons/point
Speed: 8
Turns: SM
Hull: 3
Dogfight: -1
Special Rules: Dodge 4+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2 Weak
Torpedoes 4 T 2 AP

Y-wing Fighter-Bomber

Priority: Skirmish 3 squadrons/point
Speed: 8
Turns: SM
Hull: 4
Dogfight: +0
Special Rules: Dodge 3+, Fighter

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Laser Cannon 2 T 2 Weak
Ion Cannon 2 T 1
Torpedoes 4 T 2 AP

Did you put all of the fighter as Skirmish for a reason? I would think that they would all be Patrol.


Remember that all rebel fighters (and the Tie Defender) have the ability to go to hyperspace. And I think all of the fighters were considered to be Atmospheric.


According to all of the Computer Games (take it with a grain of salt), all of the rebel fighters & some Ties (bomber) have a much longer range (I would say 8-10") Concussion Missiles / Ion Torpedoes. The Concussion Missiles I would suggest 1AD AF/W & the Ion Torpedoes I would make 2AD AP/DD/SL.

Seems a little unbalanced giving the ranges so it would be kind of touch to work in

 

[demiurge]

"Even in the most insane circumstances imaginible the two could never come together. "

I'm sorry, that's just daft.

The B5 universe has established time travel, dimensional travel, and extragalactic travel as part of their canon.

The Star Wars has official, but not canon, dimensional travel and extragalactic travel (outbound flight, yuuzhon vong, and otherspace)

It's not that big a stretch when the creators of the respective universes allow for it inherently. You don't even have to invent anything new.

Now I'll grant you extremely unlikely. And if someone states they are a purist and scifi universes shouldn't be mixed, I'd understand that. Not agree, but at least it's just a matter of personal preference.

Hell, the two universes are even stylistically and thematically similar. Both are space opera, not hard scifi. And both of them have high fantasy elements woven in - from the Force to Telepaths and technomages.

We know the Vorlons have travelled to other dimensions - extended background info indicates they were pikers compared to the Walkers (who are said to have transferred entire suns into other dimensions).

If you can buy a Thirdspace Portal that leads to a race of telepathic chthulhu wannabees, it isn't that hard a stretch to replace chthulhu critters with Sith Lords.

As far as the conversion goes, initial thoughts:

1) Heavy TLs should have a good range equal to EA Lasers. Normal TLs are just about right as they are.

2) Rebel starfighters and the TIE Bomber should have proton torp/concussion missiles built into their priority level. And those should be a significant threat to ships.

3) The WEG stats for the ISD are off - the ICS stats are better. So your average ISD should have heavy TLs.

Lots of arguments over what the correct stats are of course due to the number of different sources out there over time.

 

[philogara_mk2]

"Even in the most insane circumstances imaginible the two could never come together. "

I'm sorry, that's just daft.

That made me chuckle, seemed strangely ironic.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Considering the original hijack was largely my fault, oops.

For the record, the author of the ICS for ep 1&2, and technical consultant on 3 and OT, is one Dr. Curtis Saxton...

Seriously, Atmospheric and Jump Point should be common-verging-on-ubiquitous for Rebel fighters, and they should get the full use of JP. Imperials- even TIEs can re-enter.

Ion Cannon needed some abnormal treatment; they are disabling weapons, so I called them Precise Non-Lethal; on a crit- and they generally threw a pretty hefty wedge of dice to provide some- they did the special effect, and the special effect only- no actual damage or crew loss.

The WOtC roleplaying game abstracted space combat too far to draw numbers from; I don't know about the starship minis yet, but WEG did produce stats that gave conclusions.
Assuming a (normal, default) action split of move-move-dodge-shoot, we get fighter laser/blaster ranges about the movement radius of a fast fighter, ion cannon about half that again, missile ranges a third to a quarter of that, old and weak turbolasers and capital ion cannon about twice fighter gun range, capital ship missiles there or less, and new and more powerful turbolasers about three times fighter gun range.

Shields, I pretty much glossed over entirely, working them the way WEG did- they added to the Hull, and effectively Damage and Crew, stats.
Eroding and regenerating is justifiable, but one possibility that comes to mind is threshold based. Intercepts X amount of damage automatically like GEGs do- larger numbers- fails above something like 2X.

 

[Halfbat]

The MC80 may need some optimisation. The Mon Cal gave it a backup shield generator so if the first failed the second immediately came online (a special case, possibly) and the big Mon Cal cruisers also had numerous point defense anti-fighter bubbles (how to treat them!).

 

[Slightly Norse John]

PD bubbles are straightforward- one shot, range zero energy mine. No new rules required- except maybe one shot- does what it says on the tin.

For the record, the Damorian Manufacturing coy. Carrack- class Light Cruiser [Star Corvette] a la me.
Skirmish,
Speed 10, turn 2/45, Jump Point (may need rewritten),
Hull 5, damage 28/4, crew 32/5 (compartmentalisation), troops 1, 1 TIE flight
Heavy (?) Turbolasers- range 20, double damage AP, F, A each 2AD, P, S each 3AD
Laser Cannon- range 5, AF Weak, 4AD each F, A, P, S

Ship lists, ship lists...synthesising SWTC and WEG's efforts is going to take effort and head pain.
This was the first version listings;

War PL, Imperial-I, Imperial-II (NOT Imperator. If I was to do this again, I'd do it properly.), Victory-I, MC-80 Starcruiser, MC-90

Battle; MC- 60(should be 40?) Light Cruiser, Victory-II, Escort Carrier, Neutron Star rebel armed merchant carrier, Sienar 417 Vindicator

Raid; Nebulon-B, Nebulon-B2, Loronar Strike Cruiser, Interdictor 418, Rendili Dreadnaught

Skirmish; Corellian Corvette, Damorian Carrack, Rendili Customs Corvette(superb fighter killer, better than anything in B5), KDY class 1000 light cruiser, Prosperity Customs Frigate, Lancer Frigate, Corellian Gunship, Sienar Bayonet light cruiser, Daupherm Discril, Sienar Marauder corvette

Patrol; Assault Shuttle, Firespray, Sienar Guardian/ 344, Insystem Patrol Vessel, Assault Transport, Rebel armed freighters

Fighters; TIE Defender (1/wing), TIE Advanced (2/wing), Skipray (2/wing), Tydirium shuttle (2/wing, and it is capable of functioning as a heavy turret fighter), X-wing (3/wing), B-wing (3/wing), TIE Interceptor (3/wing), Gauntlet (3/wing, very nifty light bomber), A-wing (4/wing), Y-wing (4/wing), T-wing (4/wing), R-41 Starchaser (4/wing), TIE Bomber (4/wing), Z-95 Headhunter (5/wing), TIE Fighter (6/wing)

To that, it would probably be necessary to add some things. Dr Saxton identifies, from the artwork, several Mon Cal ships which never saw film, including two, one more or less dolphin and one with a big blobby sperm-whale forestructure, explicitly stated as being the same length as an Imperator, and a couple larger; and of course we now also have the Mediator and Viscount superheavies to worry about.

Probably more useful is the MC30C frigate; insertable at Raid level, and what about the A and B versions? Diversity, aha.
From the Imperial Starfleet, art exists for a 500-560m Star Frigate, which is a very fat dagger shape- half way to outright egg. Large, protruding engine mounts mean it's probably quite fast, and it doesn't fit any of the known names from WEG- fast patrol/outrider Raid type?
The Demolisher Star Frigate is another potential raid entry, which looks like a 800-m dagger with the point cut off to an actual length of 500-580m. There's a large fighter bay in the cut off point, and it has two main engines- a strike carrier, decent speed, poor agility, 3-4 squadrons, Raid?
Then we have the Anonymous Frigate-2 and Ecliptic classes, the Ecliptic (Biggs Darklighter's first ship) possibly the light-medium warship that was cut down to form the basis of the Acclamator; fuller hull, wedge shaped on both sides- no flat belly, four small hangar bays on the underside, 0.75km long. Anon.Frigate-2 is the far side of the process, an improved Ecliptic produced by a reconversion of the Acclamator, again flat underside replaced by keeled wedge, more heavily layered and less bitty armour, better secondary armament.

Then there's the Acclamator itself, and Venator and Recusant light star destroyers. Fun.

 

[pixelgeek]

With the recent release of the Starship Battles game and minis, is there any interest in providing stats for the minis in that game to allow players to game with the ACTA rules and the Starship Battles figures?

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Very probably there is;
having seen a basic set and a couple of expansion packs, though, it has the problem that you get the stats with the random mini, and you really are buying a pig in a poke. I'm not impressed with the collectability- just another way of saying you have no way of building the fleet you want short of throwing huge wads of cash at the problem- the system, or the models. I'm fairly sure Venators aren't meant to be slightly curved.
If there is some list of ship stats out there, I'd love to see it, but- well, ACtA is pretty low- res, it eliminates a lot of detail for speed and playability. SWSB seems to eliminate too much detail, and I would defnintely prefer an ACtA mod, but I wouldn't tie it- or TIE it- to the figures. Produce a full fleet list and let players proxy or improvise as they may.

 

[Ben2]

It is very much a pig in a poke. The way to avoid this is to let someone else poke the pig. I bought the basic set and one blister yesterday, and was fortunate enough to pull a Nebulon B, Assault Frigate, 3 X-wings, A-wing, Y wing, 2 Tie Interceptors, Tie Fighter, Lambda class shuttle and some prequel tat (Jedi starfighter, Vulture, Geonosian fighter, Tech guild fighter).
For £15 the boosters are an appalling deal, as you get one large ship, and six fighter sized ships (at least in the one I got).

So do what I will do, and buy singles off ebay from traders who either sell in themed batches, or who do buy it now at realistic prices. I got 3000 points of Republic and 3000+ points of Seperatist to run Star Wars using the SST rules that way.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Some of the ideas you have here are _scarily_ close to what we have come up with! We already have an unofficial 32 page 'supplement' knocking around the office that basically mods CTA to Star Wars. All the ships from the WotC set have been statted (and, indeed, are currently sitting on one of our tables). Four main fleets, an 'other ships' chapter, Jump to Light Speed rules, Ion weapons and so forth. Shields too, but they are hardly new to us, as we have them in CTA 2e anyway for the Abbai

What is interesting is, by taking weapon loadouts from canon Star Wars sources, how different the game plays. Capital ships tend to grind away at one another for many turns, as they lack the Beams and other killer weapons from B5. It is the fighters that tend to deal the knock out blows (Proton Torpedoes, and the like) but they are, of course, extremely fragile! This is producing some dynamics in the game that are very interesting to watch. WotC have even provided us with transport ships, so we can do convoy scenarios!

Anyway, just my tuppence worth

 

[pixelgeek]

Some of the ideas you have here are _scarily_ close to what we have come up with! We already have an unofficial 32 page 'supplement' knocking around the office that basically mods CTA to Star Wars.)

Any chance of it becoming less "unofficial"?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Any chance of it becoming less "unofficial"?

Not unless Mr Lucas comes knocking on our door, saying 'Hey, like what you're doing, man. . .'

 

[Ben2]

The best you may get is an unofficial passing it around.

Matt, I have done yet another draft of the prequel trilogy lists, this time adding aircraft (which was interesting, and led to the addition of what we called the "crash" phase to our games). Some serious playtesting has now been done on the prequel stuff, but Jedi still aren't right. When I at some point this week get access to email I will send them to you.

On SW Starships, yeah, grinding away was exactly what happened in the films and the B5W conversion (some people here may have seen it, it is pretty complete but based heavily on the WEG stats). In the B5W conversion the Empire playing a little like the Orieni, with gigantic ships behind screens of Lancers and Carracks, and firepower concentrating on knocking out Rebel Cap ships one at a time, while the Rebels tried to punch through the escorts to nail the Star Destroyers with massed proton barrages from Y-wing squadrons etc.
Needless to say much fun was had by all.

There is at least one source of Dreadnought class ships on the net, I'll dig out the link when I can get to my email. But needless to say I was very disappointed they were not in the basic set. A five or ten ship run of generic ships used by both (like the Fringers in the 28mm sets) would have nicely rounded out both fleets, as both sides can have dreadnoughts, freighters, correllian corvettes etc. But what there is is alright.

 

[pixelgeek]

The best you may get is an unofficial passing it around.

That would make me and my local group very happy.

Especially as we have been trying to get people to play ACTA and this would be a great way to get them into the game.

 

[Ben2]

It is how I have got my group keen on BF:Evo. They are very impressed with the rules.

 

[firekite]

matt , would it be possible to due a special issue of signs & portents to release this 32 page supplement to all of us droolling gamers to enjoy 8)

 

[Silvereye]

Or onto the B5 Fleet Command site?

 

[pixelgeek]

Passing it along to one of the websites might be a nice idea if Matt and Co. are concerned about being seen as profiting commercially from Lucas trademarks and copyright characters and names