Will future books contain more PC or NPC races, such as the missing Tlazitlans and Aphaki, or perhaps the Yuetshi, Zaporoskans or Kozaki? I don't think the Yuetshi would be good as a PC race, but they would make a fine NPC race similar to the Khauran people. After all, how can we get Yuetshi curved knives without slaughtering "water rats," as Conan so eloquently terms them? And on that subject, will we get to see the stats for Khosatral Khel, as hinted in the Magical Items section?
New races
- Thread starter Johannixx
- Start date
I would like to see a few more subracial templates, such as Khawarisami (with a Slaver focus). I would also like to see Hyrkanians receive the proper religion (Everlasting Sky, not Erlik & Tarim) and Turanians getting Favoured Class: Noble or Soldier, instead of Nomad. I've house ruled these last bits in exasperation at the book's glaring oversights, but want official confirmation. Tzlazitlans should be done up in a future S&P with Xotli, and Zothique (aka Mayapan). I don't see them being in demand more than Acheronians or chariot rules, which were in S&P #6.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Since merchant, slave lord, and caravan master are all professions, the commoner class fits all of these - just take the appropriate profession and appropriate skills/feats. Bingo! You have a merchant or a slave lord or a caravan master.
There is no need to make a class for every profession. Just learn a skill.
There is no need to make a class for every profession. Just learn a skill.
VincentDarlage said:
Here's the problem I have with that, Vincent. The Commoner class really stinks. I can't make up somebody super-cool with it. Some PCs would probably like to be Merchants, or at least dabble in that sort of line. There should be some kind of core class (even if it is only one, and very generic by nature, such as the Expert) to fit these types of characters who are intended to be cool, but don't fit the regular classes. Give them the "choose a class feature" ability like the Noble has, only more often, and that should most, if not all, of the gaps the current rules have.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Iron_Chef said:
I have made up some really fantastic NPC's with the commoner class. Besides, a cool NPC isn't about stats - its the GM bringing him to life. If a PC wants to be a merchant, then all he has to do it get some stuff, and then sell it to someone; rinse and repeat. Make up some merchant-like feats instead of a class ability.
I haven't had any problem making up fantastic characters with the commoner class.
I agree the Commoner is too weak for most NPCs. Here's a Tradesman class I created for D&D - so he needs a Dodge/Parry bonus, maybe 1/3 levels.
TRADESMAN & EXPERT
The Tradesman class replaces the Commoner for most purposes. The Expert is a subset of Tradesman.
TRADESMAN
Hit Die: d4 (sedentary), d6 (active), or d8 (labouring).
Skill Points at 1st Level: x4 standard per-level.
Skill Points at Each Level:
d4 hit die (Sedentary): 8 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any twelve skills to be class skills.
d6 hit die (Active): 6 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any ten skills to be class skills.
d8 hit die (Labouring): 4 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any eight skills to be class skills.
Saving Throws & Base Attack Bonus
Offense option: The Tradesman can choose any one Save to be his good save, based on his profession - eg Fortitude for a miner, Reflex for a thief, Will for a priest. In this case they use the good (3/4) Base Attack Bonus.
Defense Option: The Tradesman may alternatively opt to have two good saves, in which case they use the poor Base Attack Bonus (1/2).
Table: The Tradesman
NPC Level Base Attack
Bonus Good/Poor Poor
Save Poor
Save Good
Save
1st +0/+0 +0 +0 +2
2nd +1/+1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +2/+1 +1 +1 +3
4th +3/+2 +1 +1 +4
5th +3/+2 +1 +1 +4
6th +4/+3 +2 +2 +5
7th +5/+3 +2 +2 +5
8th +6/+4 +2 +2 +6
9th +6/+4 +3 +3 +6
10th +7/+5 +3 +3 +7
11th +8/+5 +3 +3 +7
12th +9/+6 +4 +4 +8
13th +9/+6 +4 +4 +8
14th +10/+7 +4 +4 +9
15th +11/+7 +5 +5 +9
16th +12/+8 +5 +5 +10
17th +12/+8 +5 +5 +10
18th +13/+9 +6 +6 +11
19th +14/+9 +6 +6 +11
20th +15/+10 +6 +6 +12
Class Features
The following is a class feature of the Tradesman NPC class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Tradesman is proficient in the use of all simple weapons and with light armor but not shields.
EXPERT - sample TRADESMAN
Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills
The expert can choose any ten skills to be class skills.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Table: The Expert
NPC Level Base Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save
1st +0 +0 +0 +2
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3
4th +3 +1 +1 +4
5th +3 +1 +1 +4
6th +4 +2 +2 +5
7th +5 +2 +2 +5
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12
Class Features
The following is a class feature of the expert NPC class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The expert is proficient in the use of all simple weapons and with light armor but not shields.
TRADESMAN & EXPERT
The Tradesman class replaces the Commoner for most purposes. The Expert is a subset of Tradesman.
TRADESMAN
Hit Die: d4 (sedentary), d6 (active), or d8 (labouring).
Skill Points at 1st Level: x4 standard per-level.
Skill Points at Each Level:
d4 hit die (Sedentary): 8 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any twelve skills to be class skills.
d6 hit die (Active): 6 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any ten skills to be class skills.
d8 hit die (Labouring): 4 + Int modifier. The Tradesman can choose any eight skills to be class skills.
Saving Throws & Base Attack Bonus
Offense option: The Tradesman can choose any one Save to be his good save, based on his profession - eg Fortitude for a miner, Reflex for a thief, Will for a priest. In this case they use the good (3/4) Base Attack Bonus.
Defense Option: The Tradesman may alternatively opt to have two good saves, in which case they use the poor Base Attack Bonus (1/2).
Table: The Tradesman
NPC Level Base Attack
Bonus Good/Poor Poor
Save Poor
Save Good
Save
1st +0/+0 +0 +0 +2
2nd +1/+1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +2/+1 +1 +1 +3
4th +3/+2 +1 +1 +4
5th +3/+2 +1 +1 +4
6th +4/+3 +2 +2 +5
7th +5/+3 +2 +2 +5
8th +6/+4 +2 +2 +6
9th +6/+4 +3 +3 +6
10th +7/+5 +3 +3 +7
11th +8/+5 +3 +3 +7
12th +9/+6 +4 +4 +8
13th +9/+6 +4 +4 +8
14th +10/+7 +4 +4 +9
15th +11/+7 +5 +5 +9
16th +12/+8 +5 +5 +10
17th +12/+8 +5 +5 +10
18th +13/+9 +6 +6 +11
19th +14/+9 +6 +6 +11
20th +15/+10 +6 +6 +12
Class Features
The following is a class feature of the Tradesman NPC class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Tradesman is proficient in the use of all simple weapons and with light armor but not shields.
EXPERT - sample TRADESMAN
Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills
The expert can choose any ten skills to be class skills.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Table: The Expert
NPC Level Base Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save
1st +0 +0 +0 +2
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3
4th +3 +1 +1 +4
5th +3 +1 +1 +4
6th +4 +2 +2 +5
7th +5 +2 +2 +5
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12
Class Features
The following is a class feature of the expert NPC class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The expert is proficient in the use of all simple weapons and with light armor but not shields.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
I don't know. I am trying to envision Nels Olsen as a person with special class abilities. All he needed was suppliers, a storefront and customers.
Take a commoner with some intelligence and charisma. Give him ranks in Gather Information, Diplomacy, and Profession (merchant/slaver/etc.).
A basic Gather Information and Diplomacy check... BOOM! Suppliers.
Get a place to sell the wares. Make a Profession check... Boom! Customers.
You have a merchant/slaver/etc. at this point. He doesn't need a special class or ten class skills or more than a d4 on Hit Dice. If he is a labourer, give him a high Con when picking his ability scores to show the increased hp.
Take a commoner with some intelligence and charisma. Give him ranks in Gather Information, Diplomacy, and Profession (merchant/slaver/etc.).
A basic Gather Information and Diplomacy check... BOOM! Suppliers.
Get a place to sell the wares. Make a Profession check... Boom! Customers.
You have a merchant/slaver/etc. at this point. He doesn't need a special class or ten class skills or more than a d4 on Hit Dice. If he is a labourer, give him a high Con when picking his ability scores to show the increased hp.
VincentDarlage said:
Nels Olsen (as much as I liked him on Little House on the Prairie) was a weenie and a Commoner. I'm talking about a slippery Hyborian Age "adventuring" merchant (slaver/fence/smuggler) worthy of being a PC or major NPC, not a guy who sells vegetables or wooden bowls at a market stall. :wink:
Commoners are slightly beefed up from D&D in Conan (something I just doublechecked), but not quite enough for me. I'd give them 4 skill points/level because 3 is just totally weird and unheard of as a skill point award. Different class skills (for different types of Commoners, possibly removing illiteracy and replacing it with a bonus feat) would probably resolve the issue for me for everyday folks, but still doesn't address the gap left for an adventuring merchant like I specified above. One could argue that all the core classes are really just professions/lifestyles, after all.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
I am all for allowing different commoners of different backgrounds different types of class skills. A slaver though could just be a nomad or soldier who goes around and captures people, then takes them to market, allowing a commoner to sell them for him. I don't know what "special class abilities" a slaver would need, other than an appropriate feat and skill selection to catch people (ranks in Craft (trapmaking) would be good for a potential slaver). Any PC could do it without taking a special class.
A fence is just someone with a lot of contacts (ie. reputation), ranks in Bluff, Gather Information, Search, etc. Any class would do. A scholar could sit at the centre of a vast fencing web... Any PC could do it without taking a special class.
Smugglers could be nomads, soldiers, borderers, scholars - they just have to be willing to hide things from the law. Again, it is just a matter of skill choices. Any PC could do it without having to take a special class.
It is all a matter of skill selection and appropriate role-playing.
An adventuring merchant?
A fence is just someone with a lot of contacts (ie. reputation), ranks in Bluff, Gather Information, Search, etc. Any class would do. A scholar could sit at the centre of a vast fencing web... Any PC could do it without taking a special class.
Smugglers could be nomads, soldiers, borderers, scholars - they just have to be willing to hide things from the law. Again, it is just a matter of skill choices. Any PC could do it without having to take a special class.
It is all a matter of skill selection and appropriate role-playing.
An adventuring merchant?
VincentDarlage said:
LOL, okay, that sounds silly without me quantifying it further... It may still sound silly after I'm done, so please continue to point/counterpoint me as I value your input, Vincent, even if we disagree on this subject---but you may convince me yet!).
An "adventuring merchant" would be someone who buys/sells/obtains trade goods and often comes into violent conflict in his dealings (hopefully not his customers very often). This would not be your average merchant, but one who lives an active and dangerous lifestyle, with high risks and the corresponding potential for high profit. Yes, this could be modeled with feat and skill selection, but none of the classes really fits my image. I'd like to see something with special abilities, not just multiple taking of the Skill Focus or other +2/+2 skill feats.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Iron_Chef said:
Sounds like a pirate.
Take the pirate class, change Seamanship to something more terrain based, and change Navigation, and you'd have a 'pirate' of the desert, or of the jungle, or whatever. That may be what you are looking for, with a whole lot less work.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Like I said, take the pirate class, change Seamanship to something more flexibile in regards to terrain, and change Navigation to Track, and you'd have a bandit. That may be what you are looking for, with a whole lot less work.
BhilJhoanz
Mongoose
I have to side with Vince. (Thought that is definately NOT a pirate, as there was no mention of a parrot anywhere)
Skills that a person has should be reflected by their ______. Anybody?, Anybody? by their skills. Not by their class. Class is a rather slippery concept -- more than anything, it's a game mechanic used to distinguish the differences in training and background that PCs have. This decision does not limit the profession or crafting ability that they have (though it will limit the amount of effort they can put toward following it). For a soldier to become a sailor (a good one anyway), it doesn't require that he take the Pirate class -- or Mitra forbid, the "Sailor" class. He must simply put ranks into Profession (Seamanship).
For this same reason, for a commoner to become a trader or merchant, he simply must put ranks into it. If you feel like a 5th level merchant doesn't have the kick you want or the ranks you want -- just make him a higher level!
Skills that a person has should be reflected by their ______. Anybody?, Anybody? by their skills. Not by their class. Class is a rather slippery concept -- more than anything, it's a game mechanic used to distinguish the differences in training and background that PCs have. This decision does not limit the profession or crafting ability that they have (though it will limit the amount of effort they can put toward following it). For a soldier to become a sailor (a good one anyway), it doesn't require that he take the Pirate class -- or Mitra forbid, the "Sailor" class. He must simply put ranks into Profession (Seamanship).
For this same reason, for a commoner to become a trader or merchant, he simply must put ranks into it. If you feel like a 5th level merchant doesn't have the kick you want or the ranks you want -- just make him a higher level!
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
BhilJhoanz said:
Excellent points.
