New CT UWPs and Stats (FINAL!)

[EDG]

I have, through my exponentially increasing knowledge of Excel over the past month or so, managed to figure out a few interesting statistics using the CT data:

1) Fully 11.5% of all worlds generated by CT (28815 worlds in the 250k CT run) are not capable of supporting societies on them because their Tech levels are below the minimums required to survive (as indicated by the TL in Book 3 of the survival gear).

2) 26.85% of all worlds (67128 worlds in the 250k run) are not large enough to hold onto the breathable atmospheres that are generated by the default CT worldgen. (i.e. are size 1-4 and atm 2-9)

Never mind any subjective tweaks to the social data that I'm making in my own Worldgen, these two issues are quite real - the first contradicts the game's own rules, and the second contradicts reality. Either way, that is a lot of broken worlds.

 

[EDG]

Just for laughs, I *gasp* modified the default CT worldgen to use the EDG atmgen rules (to make the unrealistic atmospheres disappear) and to use the EDG TL limits based on atmosphere type. I made no other changes at all, I just wanted to see the effect of getting rid of the unrealistic/impossible aspects of the CT worldgen. (the hydro generation wasn't changed though).

These are the results.

Code  Port     Siz     Atm     Hyd     Pop     Gov     Law     TL     Trade     % 
0              2.8    25.2    33.6     2.8    10.9    14.9     0.9     Ag     10.2
1              5.6     9.6     6.1     5.5     5.8     6.1     0.3     As      2.8
2              8.4     2.5     6.4     8.3     7.7     7.3     0.6     Ba      2.8
3             11.1     3.9     6.7    11.1     9.4     8.3     3.5     De      6.8
4             13.8     5.4     7.1    13.9    10.7     9.1     2.8     Fl     11.0
5             16.6     7.0     7.8    16.7    11.2     9.2     5.3     Hi      8.4
6             13.9     7.7     7.5    13.9    10.8     9.0     5.2     Ic      7.9
7             11.2     7.6     7.1    11.2     9.6     8.2     5.6     In      4.7
8              8.4     7.0     6.1     8.3     8.0     7.3    27.1     Lo     24.9
9              5.5     5.7     4.7     5.6     6.2     6.1    13.9     Na     14.6
A     16.8     2.8    13.1     6.8     2.8     4.3     4.8    11.5     Ni     69.3
B     24.9             2.7                     2.8     3.6     8.1     Po      3.4
C     30.6             1.5                     1.5     2.4     6.2     Ri      3.6
D     11.1             0.8                     0.8     1.6     4.3     Va     22.3
E     13.8             0.3                     0.3     1.0     2.6     Wa      6.8
F                      0.1                     0.1     0.6     1.3     Ga     24.6
G                                                      0.3     0.5     Ht     15.1
H                                                      0.1     0.1     Lt     12.1
J                                                      0.04    0.03    Op     14.5
K                                                      0.01    0.005          
L                                                      0.002   (none)          
M                                                  
N                                                  
R                                                  
S                                                  
T                                                  
U                                                  
W                                                  
X     2.8

Compare this to the default, unmodified CT stats from the first page (reproduced below)

Code  Port     Siz     Atm     Hyd     Pop     Gov     Law     TL     Trade     %
0              2.8    10.9    20.6     2.8    10.9    14.9     3.8     Ag     13.2
1              5.5     5.8     5.8     5.5     5.8     6.1     0.8     As      2.8
2              8.3     7.7     7.4     8.4     7.7     7.3     1.9     Ba      2.8
3             11.2     9.4     8.8    11.1     9.4     8.3     3.5     De      7.4
4             13.9    10.6     9.9    13.9    10.8     9.1     5.5     Fl      7.6
5             16.6    11.3    10.3    16.6    11.2     9.2     7.7     Hi      8.3
6             13.9    10.8     9.8    13.9    10.8     9.1     9.7     Ic      3.4
7             11.2     9.6     8.7    11.2     9.6     8.2    11.3     In      4.2
8              8.4     8.0     6.9     8.2     8.0     7.3    11.9     Lo     25.0
9              5.5     6.2     5.1     5.6     6.1     6.1    11.5     Na     10.0
A     16.8     2.8     4.4     6.8     2.8     4.2     4.8    10.2     Ni     69.5
B     24.9             2.7                     2.8     3.6     8.1     Po     15.0
C     30.6             1.5                     1.5     2.4     6.1     Ri      4.6
D     11.1             0.8                     0.8     1.6     4.1     Va      8.0
E     13.9             0.3                     0.3     1.0     2.4     Wa      6.8
F                      0.1                     0.1     0.5     1.1     Ga     24.6
G                                                      0.3     0.4     Ht     14.3
H                                                      0.1     0.1     Lt     20.2
J                                                      0.04    0.03    Op     14.4
K                                                      0.01    0.004         
L                                                      0.002   0.0004         
M                                                 
N                                                 
R                                                 
S                                                 
T                                                 
U                                                 
W                                                 
X     2.8

Quick breakdown of differences:
1/4 of worlds in modCT are now Va
1/3 of worlds in modCT are hyd 0.
TL is more concentrated between 8-A in modCT.
Less TL 0-2 worlds in modCT (this has to be due to 4/7/9 atm TL limit!)
In modCT: Less Ag, More Na worlds, a lot less Po worlds, less Ri, a lot less Lt.

 

[captainjack23]

I have, through my exponentially increasing knowledge of Excel over the past month or so, managed to figure out a few interesting statistics using the CT data:

1) Fully 11.5% of all worlds generated by CT (28815 worlds in the 250k CT run) are not capable of supporting societies on them because their Tech levels are below the minimums required to survive (as indicated by the TL in Book 3 of the survival gear).

It would be most helpful if you could either do such a calculation using the actual TL limits printed in the atm x TL table- do you actually have access to this ?

If you have to use your own norms for what is needed to survive, howsabout posting them ? Otherwise, its hard to know what your figures mean.

2) 26.85% of all worlds (67128 worlds in the 250k run) are not large enough to hold onto the breathable atmospheres that are generated by the default CT worldgen. (i.e. are size 1-4 and atm 2-9)

Those are about the figures I posted when I was trying to generate some actual, and not subjective numbers for how frequent the "complaint worlds" were. That was the one which, accepting that the siz/atm relation are a problem stood out. Did you look at the other numbers ?

Never mind any subjective tweaks to the social data that I'm making in my own Worldgen, these two issues are quite real - the first contradicts the game's own rules, and the second contradicts reality. Either way, that is a lot of broken worlds.

I agree with "never mind the social tweaks" and that the ATM/SIZ issue is real. Unfortunately the empty planets issue you are raising will need analysis using actual CT limits, not compiled and assumed ones before the number can be nailed down. Regardless, it's not as real as a physical limit (unless you have some information on real planetary habitation we are not privy to) - its just the rules, as written, which you may or may not like; a different proposition than declaring them "broken". Traveller does have limits on inhabitation non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.

 

[EDG]

It would be most helpful if you could either do such a calculation using the actual TL limits printed in the atm x TL table- do you actually have access to this ?

Is there a canonical atm x TL table?
I'm using the TLs in book 3 for the items required to survive in such atmospheres:

TL 3: atm 4/7/9 (filter masks)
TL 5: atm 2/3/A (oxygen tanks, compressors)
TL 8: atm 0/1/B/C (vacc suit)

Unfortunately the empty planets issue you are raising will need analysis using actual CT limits, not compiled and assumed ones before the number can be nailed down.

I'm not sure why you're implying that I didn't use actual CT limits, because I did.

Regardless, it's not as real as a physical limit (unless you have some information on real planetary habitation we are not privy to) - its just the rules, as written, which you may or may not like; a different proposition than declaring them "broken". Traveller does have limits on inhabitation non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.

I disagree completely. If you don't have the TL required to survive on a planet, then you can't survive there. There is no doubt about that. Humans can't wander around with no protection in a Type A or B atmosphere at TL 1. They can't even do that in a type 3 atmosphere. It is as real as a physical limit.

 

[AKAramis]

Regardless, it's not as real as a physical limit (unless you have some information on real planetary habitation we are not privy to) - its just the rules, as written, which you may or may not like; a different proposition than declaring them "broken". Traveller does have limits on inhabitation non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.

I disagree completely. If you don't have the TL required to survive on a planet, then you can't survive there. There is no doubt about that. Humans can't wander around with no protection in a Type A or B atmosphere at TL 1. They can't even do that in a type 3 atmosphere. It is as real as a physical limit.

But there is no canonical statement that the population is human. Such populations are not of need humans.

 

[captainjack23]

It would be most helpful if you could either do such a calculation using the actual TL limits printed in the atm x TL table- do you actually have access to this ?

Is there a canonical atm x TL table?
I'm using the TLs in book 3 for the items required to survive in such atmospheres:

TL 3: atm 4/7/9 (filter masks)
TL 5: atm 2/3/A (oxygen tanks, compressors)
TL 8: atm 0/1/B/C (vacc suit)

Yes there is. Several of them. You really didn't know they existed before you raised the issue, and critiqued earlier postings on the matter ?

I've posted one, easy to find reference. check it out.

I'm not surprised....the CT worldgen alone has quite an evolutionary history, largely due to dealing with the kind of issues you raise (not the atm/SIZ issue, though). I remembered them, but not the details, which were surprising.

As I've mentioned, Hans post was similar to my analysis of actual probabilities of problems in dispelling quite a few "common wisdom" complaints with the system that are basically mythical. Age, time, the sheer pleasure of criticism is likely the cause, as with urban legends

Unfortunately the empty planets issue you are raising will need analysis using actual CT limits, not compiled and assumed ones before the number can be nailed down.

I'm not sure why you're implying that I didn't use actual CT limits, because I did.
[/quote]

No, you did not. You used the tech levels required to manufacture commercial efficient gear sold to sophisticated travellers; Not what might be possible at low desperate tech situations.

By your argument beer and soft drink cans only exist since 1970 ish (tech...7 ?)- when blown aluminum techniques became cheaper and more efficient than steel which similalry replaced tin. (tech 4)

Regardless, it's not as real as a physical limit (unless you have some information on real planetary habitation we are not privy to) - its just the rules, as written, which you may or may not like; a different proposition than declaring them "broken". Traveller does have limits on inhabitation non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.

I disagree completely. If you don't have the TL required to survive on a planet, then you can't survive there. There is no doubt about that. Humans can't wander around with no protection in a Type A or B atmosphere at TL 1. They can't even do that in a type 3 atmosphere. It is as real as a physical limit.[/quote][/quote]

Stop arguing for the sake of argument. You are conflating your preference for rules with physical laws. Traveller says you can't live on hostile worlds without the tech needed. You do too. You just differ on how, in game terms, that can be defined.

Read it again: "Traveller does have limits on inhabitation on non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.".
Look up the CT rules that I'm using, they're there; stop approximating. Don't like the results, don't use em. That simple.

 

[EDG]

Yes there is. Several of them. You really didn't know they existed before you raised the issue, and critiqued earlier postings on the matter ?

I've posted one, easy to find reference. check it out.

Where? I'm not interested in playing "guess the location reference", just point me to the source.

Read it again: "Traveller does have limits on inhabitation on non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.".
Look up the CT rules that I'm using, they're there; stop approximating. Don't like the results, don't use em. That simple.

Perhaps if you do something useful and actually post a reference to a canonical source for the damn thing here then I can actually use it. I want a book name and a page number.

And if Traveller does have these limits, the fact remains that they're ignored in the default CT worldgen either way.

 

[EDG]

But there is no canonical statement that the population is human. Such populations are not of need humans.

As far as I'm aware there isn't one that says that they aren't either.

Fact is, if we have to account for non-humans here, then things are going to get real complicated really quickly. I'll gladly accept that populations in type A atmospheres may well be alien, but given a breathable atmosphere it is a lot easier to assume that the natives are human.

Besides, if we kept all those worlds where the TL was too low and said that they were populated by aliens instead, then we're looking at alien populations on about 11.5% of all worlds in Traveller, which is a way too high even given other statements about how many minor races there are per sector. People tend to get cranky when one puts more than 4 or 5 minor races per sector, but given we generally have about 500 worlds per sector we'd now be looking at 50 to 60 minor races!

 

[captainjack23]

Yes there is. Several of them. You really didn't know they existed before you raised the issue, and critiqued earlier postings on the matter ?

I've posted one, easy to find reference. check it out.

Where?

Its on the mongoose forum boards, in the thread, "simpler worldgen", in the post in which I answered a number of your questions -last night. I think, its right after yours. Perhaps you missed it ? Do you need a link ?

Read it again: "Traveller does have limits on inhabitation on non-hospitable worlds - just not yours.".
Look up the CT rules that I'm using, they're there; stop approximating. Don't like the results, don't use em. That simple.

Perhaps if you do something useful and actually post a reference to a canonical source for the damn thing here then I can actually use it. I want a book name and a page number.

I assume you're frustrated, but I'd appreciate it if you stop swearing, denigrating and demanding. It doesn't help the civility. And yes, I've been very guilty of all of those. I'm trying to avoid that, both in response to your requests, and the hosts desires for a more civil board.

To continue, and answer your request, the ref is posted in response to your critique in the appropriate thread. Here it is:

As noted, that's the table as presented in the world gen section of Alien Module 5. I'm looking at it now, it says 7 for ATM 2-. The 6 is a suggested change by me. If canon is important to you, by all means don't use it. Read that bit again, I discuss why some changes appeal to me.. But 7 works fine , too.

BTW, its on page 35, column 2 middle.

As I note, I wrote it out in a response to your earlier question, probably in the next posting, in the same thread. Where would you have prefered that I present it that would be more convenient for you ?

And if Traveller does have these limits, the fact remains that they're ignored in the default CT worldgen either way.

I'm not sure that this matters. If CT is involate , then we both are wasting our time here. If there is a special set of limits to the discussion, and what constitutes traveller rules and/or canon, I apologise; I was unaware. However, again, I'm not sure it matters; I thought that we were working on MGT in general, and worldgen in this thread. Are canon arguments really helpful to you ?

 

[captainjack23]

But there is no canonical statement that the population is human. Such populations are not of need humans.

As far as I'm aware there isn't one that says that they aren't either.

Fact is, if we have to account for non-humans here, then things are going to get real complicated really quickly. I'll gladly accept that populations in type A atmospheres may well be alien, but given a breathable atmosphere it is a lot easier to assume that the natives are human.

Besides, if we kept all those worlds where the TL was too low and said that they were populated by aliens instead, then we're looking at alien populations on about 11.5% of all worlds in Traveller, which is a way too high even given other statements about how many minor races there are per sector. People tend to get cranky when one puts more than 4 or 5 minor races per sector, but given we generally have about 500 worlds per sector we'd now be looking at 50 to 60 minor races!

You seem to be introducing a new argument here, one I haven't brought up. If aramis's point is that they might be aliens, well, I'd say they might but, but on the whole, my assumption, in lieu of anything otherwise said, is that that's not the case-unless very convenient for the story....... :wink:

So, I'm pretty sure that my point, and the point of the CT rules wasn't to claim that people can walk around buck-nekkid in corrosive atmospheres; perhaps aliens can, but the tech lev table (keith, Miller and Harshman Alien module 5: Zhodani, p35) seems to reference humans. (similar tables are in Aslan, also, and possibly Vargr modules; possibly elsewhere, also)

 

[EDG]

As noted, that's the table as presented in the world gen section of Alien Module 5. I'm looking at it now, it says 7 for ATM 2-. The 6 is a suggested change by me. If canon is important to you, by all means don't use it. Read that bit again, I discuss why some changes appeal to me.. But 7 works fine , too.

BTW, its on page 35, column 2 middle.

Thank you. So if anything that table is even more restrictive than what I was assuming from book 3. For those who don't have it, here's what it says (the number in brackets is the TL I was using based on book 3):

Certain atmospheres on worlds dictate
the minimum tech levels shown below.
If a world has the indicated atmosphere
and its tech level does not meet the
minimum, change its population,
government, law level, and tech
level to 000-0 instead.

Atmosphere 2-: TL 7 (5)
Atmosphere 3: TL 6 (5)
Atmosphere 4, 7, or 9: TL 5 (3)
Atmosphere A or B: TL 8 (8)
Atmosphere C: TL 9 (8)

So really, this just exacerbates the problem - a lot more than 11.5% of worlds will have insufficient TL to survive in those environments - now it's gone up to 16.06% (40155 worlds), based on those canonical limits.

(I also note that the Zho module also adds a TL DM+1 for atm F).

 

[captainjack23]

As noted, that's the table as presented in the world gen section of Alien Module 5. I'm looking at it now, it says 7 for ATM 2-. The 6 is a suggested change by me. If canon is important to you, by all means don't use it. Read that bit again, I discuss why some changes appeal to me.. But 7 works fine , too.

BTW, its on page 35, column 2 middle.

Thank you.

You're welcome, there it was. So did we need to be so snarky to me earlier ? I don't think so. Not even an OOPS in response ?
I suggest you're reading and posting a bit to quickly, if you're missing stuff like this.

So if anything that table is even more restrictive than what I was assuming from book 3. For those who don't have it, here's what it says (the number in brackets is the TL I was using based on book 3):

Certain atmospheres on worlds dictate
the minimum tech levels shown below.
If a world has the indicated atmosphere
and its tech level does not meet the
minimum, change its population,
government, law level, and tech
level to 000-0 instead.

Atmosphere 2-: TL 7 (5)
Atmosphere 3: TL 6 (5)
Atmosphere 4, 7, or 9: TL 5 (3)
Atmosphere A or B: TL 8 (8)
Atmosphere C: TL 9 (8)

So really, this just exacerbates the problem - a lot more than 11.5% of worlds will have insufficient TL to survive in those environments.

Which is exactly what I was saying, and had posted. I think reasoned reading has gone by the boards right now, and a time out is in order. I'm not even sure what problem we are discussing at all. I'm taking a 24 hold on this particular issue.

 

[EDG]

You're welcome, there it was. So did we need to be so snarky to me earlier ? I don't think so. Not even an OOPS in response ?I suggest you're reading and posting a bit to quickly, if you're missing stuff like this.

To be fair, you didn't put it in the obvious place (i.e. right next to where you first introduced your TL table). I found it just now a couple of posts down from your initial post on that thread.

So yeah, I missed it, but you could have just posted the reference here straight away rather than go "it's obvious where it is!". The fact that I wasn't aware of it meant that I obviously hadn't seen it, and I generally get annoyed when people expect me to know where something is and don't tell me when I clearly don't know where it is.

Which is exactly what I was saying, and had posted. I think reasoned reading has gone by the boards right now, and a time out is in order. I'm not even sure what problem we are discussing at all. I'm taking a 24 hold on this particular issue.

It seemed that your point was more that I was using "my own values" and not CT's (though that said, you're using your own values too), even though the values I used are (to some people) more canonical because of 'first mention'. I didn't see any mention of you already determining that using the Zho table would result in more worlds like this though.

It probably doesn't help that I'm recovering from a migraine here either, so sorry for the crankiness.

 

[captainjack23]

You're welcome, there it was. So did we need to be so snarky to me earlier ? I don't think so. Not even an OOPS in response ?I suggest you're reading and posting a bit to quickly, if you're missing stuff like this.

To be fair, you didn't put it in the obvious place (i.e. right next to where you first introduced your TL table). I found it just now a couple of posts down from your initial post on that thread.

So yeah, I missed it, but you could have just posted the reference here straight away rather than go "it's obvious where it is!". The fact that I wasn't aware of it meant that I obviously hadn't seen it, and I generally get annoyed when people expect me to know where something is and don't tell me when I clearly don't know where it is.

Which is exactly what I was saying, and had posted. I think reasoned reading has gone by the boards right now, and a time out is in order. I'm not even sure what problem we are discussing at all. I'm taking a 24 hold on this particular issue.

It seemed that your point was more that I was using "my own values" and not CT's (though that said, you're using your own values too), even though the values I used are (to some people) more canonical because of 'first mention'. I didn't see any mention of you already determining that using the Zho table would result in more worlds like this though.

It probably doesn't help that I'm recovering from a migraine here either, so sorry for the crankiness.

Okay. It did have that flavor, so, no worries. and I'm on about 9 hours sleep across 72 hours so sorry if I was confusing (or confused).

And no, I haven't run the numbers yet. May not be able to do so fer a while.

I'm still going to take a 24 hour timeout on this thread.....and probably sleep.

 

[EDG]

Here's the distribution table using the Zho minimum atm TL table (and setting the TL to be that minimum if it is lower, not zeroing the population).

EDIT: Ooops, forgot to mention that this also includes all the non-temperature based DMs for hydrographics too, so it's fully physically realistic now.

Code  Port     Siz     Atm     Hyd     Pop     Gov     Law     TL     Trade     %
0              2.8    25.2    42.2     2.8    10.9    14.9     0.9     Ag     10.2
1              5.6     9.6     4.5     5.5     5.8     6.1     0.3     As      2.8
2              8.4     2.5     4.5     8.3     7.7     7.3     0.6     Ba      2.8
3             11.1     3.9     4.8    11.1     9.4     8.3     1.1     De     10.2
4             13.8     5.4     5.5    13.9    10.7     9.1     1.5     Fl      9.5
5             16.6     7.0     6.6    16.7    11.2     9.2     7.7     Hi      8.4
6             13.9     7.7     6.8    13.9    10.8     9.0     5.8     Ic      2.7
7             11.2     7.6     6.6    11.2     9.6     8.2    17.4     In      4.7
8              8.4     7.0     5.9     8.3     8.0     7.3    17.4     Lo     24.9
9              5.5     5.7     4.8     5.6     6.2     6.1    12.6     Na     16.6
A     16.8     2.8    13.1     7.9     2.8     4.3     4.8    10.4     Ni     69.3
B     24.9             2.7                     2.8     3.6     8.5     Po      6.8
C     30.6             1.5                     1.5     2.4     6.5     Ri      3.6
D     11.1             0.8                     0.8     1.6     4.5     Va     22.3
E     13.8             0.3                     0.3     1.0     2.7     Wa      7.9
F                      0.1                     0.1     0.6     1.4     Ga     24.6
G                                                      0.3     0.5     Ht     15.8
H                                                      0.1     0.1     Lt     10.8
J                                                      0.04    0.04    Op     14.5
K                                                      0.01    0.005          
L                                                      0.002   (none)          
M                                                  
N                                                  
R                                                  
S                                                  
T                                                  
U                                                  
W                                                  
X     2.8

 

[AKAramis]

Despite the indigestion it gives some people (especially GM's), there are references to there bing more than a hundred minor races in the OTU Imperium. (Only about 30-40 named ones, and most have no CGen rules)

The Marches alone have several, including a couple of "real wierdies" (Jagd-il-Jigd, Eiboken), "Wierdies" (dandies/Lewelllolly, Shaggies, Droyne, Chirpers), Human Minors (Daryen/Darrian, Jonkereer, Sword Worlders, Arden), plus Aslan, Vargr, Vilani, Imperials, and Zhodani, plus known travelling species of Newt, Virush, Dolphin, and Ael Yael.

The sword worlders are a Terran STL off-shoot, and they and the Arden are referenced as being distinguishable medically in an adventure... I suspect by genetic analysis.

The Vilani in the marches are all immigrant, for reference, and technically are part of the imperial population. Which, BTW, may include Solomani prior to the 950's... .

That's 20 races KNOWN FROM CANON to be present in the marches (but half of them are not "native" populations...

We do know from Supplelment 3 that, in the marches, yes, the populations are usually humans. We know from TTA that the Dandies are outnumbered by humans.

The whole approach of the canon sources was intentionally vague to allow GM's to add as many as they wanted.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

........ no Hivers though ................

 

[EDG]

Despite the indigestion it gives some people (especially GM's), there are references to there bing more than a hundred minor races in the OTU Imperium. (Only about 30-40 named ones, and most have no CGen rules)

That's still a lot less than you'd expect from 11.5% (or 16% if you use the Zho table) of worlds having lower tech than the environmental TL minimum.

Honestly, by implication the default worldgen rules HAVE to be designed with humans in mind. Most of the various alien modules have supplementary or alternate worldgen rules when creating sectors in their space after all. But as far as I can see there's simply no mention in any of the CT books that says that if a world's TL is lower than the minimum that humans need to survive then it must be populated by aliens instead.

The closest I've seen get is the "Nh" (non-Hiver) trade code in the Hiver module, which itself is somewhat confusing (so there's a a world with atm 1-4/A-C, and if it has a population then there's a 28% chance that it's native or non-hiver, but then do you continue to use the Hiver rules to generate it?).

But then also in the Zho book they rule that if the TL is below the minimum then all population on the world is removed and it becomes Barren (pop 0/gov 0/law 0/tech 0)... so that seems to imply that actually no, there aren't any alien races there instead and that the worldgen system (at least for the Zhos) *is* built with humans in mind.

Even as we discover more in canon, we still find lots of contradictions.

 

[captainjack23]

The closest I've seen get is the "Nh" (non-Hiver) trade code in the Hiver module, which itself is somewhat confusing

Nah. Its advertising toencourage tourism. Works, too !

 

[EDG]

And here's what I call the "dead, dead, they're all dead!" run... where worlds that don't reach the Zho environmental TL minimum are all wiped out and have Pop 0 (which apart from anything else is stupid because it seems to imply that people colonise hostile worlds, then their technology fails and everyone dies, and then nobody ever bothers to colonise the worlds again with the right tech).

The net result is that one in five worlds are Barren.

It's just presented for general amusement, but I don't think this works for Traveller at all despite being technically canon. It makes far more sense to raise the TL that is rolled to the minimum than to just kill everyone (unless we're talking about the Collapse era, of course ).

Code  Port     Siz     Atm     Hyd     Pop     Gov     Law    Tech   Trade     % 
0              2.8    25.2    42.2     20.3   27.6    30.6    20.6     Ag     9.1
1              5.6     9.6     4.5     4.7     4.7     5.1     0.3     As     2.8
2              8.4     2.5     4.5     7.0     6.3     6.1     0.6     Ba    20.3
3             11.1     3.9     4.8     9.4     7.6     6.9     1.1     De    10.2
4             13.8     5.4     5.5    11.7     8.6     7.4     1.5     Fl     9.5
5             16.6     7.0     6.6    14.0     9.8     7.5     3.8     Hi     7.7
6             13.9     7.7     6.8    10.5     8.6     7.4     5.0     Ic     2.7
7             11.2     7.6     6.6     8.4     7.6     6.7     9.0     In     4.3
8              8.4     7.0     5.9     6.2     6.4     5.9    11.6     Lo    21.2
9              5.5     5.7     4.8     5.0     5.0     4.9    11.7     Na    12.6
A     16.8     2.8    13.1     7.9     2.7     3.4     3.9    10.4     Ni    57.4
B     24.9             2.7                     2.3     2.8     8.5     Po     5.4
C     30.6             1.5                     1.3     2.0     6.5     Ri     3.6
D     11.1             0.8                     0.6     1.3     4.5     Va    22.3
E     13.8             0.3                     0.3     0.8     2.7     Wa     7.9
F                      0.1                     0.1     0.5     1.4     Ga    24.6
G                                                      0.2     0.5     Ht    15.8
H                                                      0.1     0.1     Lt     7.6
J                                                      0.04    0.04    Op    11.6
K                                                      0.01    0.005          
L                                                              0.002               
M                                                  
N                                                  
R                                                  
S                                                  
T                                                  
U                                                  
W                                                  
X     2.8