Near Future Traveller
- Thread starter Sigtrygg
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Stainless steel hulls, should be a step beyond whatever primitive ones are made of.
I have to admit, I have no concept what titanium steel is supposed to be.
I have to admit, I have no concept what titanium steel is supposed to be.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The reaction drive can be a fusion rocket without the fusion power plant yet being invented, the power plant is still fifty years away,,,
the reaction drive does not require a power plant, oddly you can't tap it to generate electricity...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
A fusion torch is pretty much the only description that makes any "real world" sense...
which means Earth based starports are likely in the middle of nowhere and number of launches limited - that or stick with chemical rockets to get stuff to Earth orbit.
Fusion torch from the Moon, Mars etc, from space stations a chemical rocket tug getting you to a safe distance from the space stations...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
"Titanium steel alloy refers to alloys that combine titanium with steel or other elements, enhancing their properties.
- Properties: Titanium alloys are known for their high tensile strength, lightweight, and extraordinary corrosion resistance.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=60ec...GVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvVGl0YW5pdW1fYWxsb3lz&ntb=1 - Applications: These alloys are commonly used in aerospace applications, such as jet engines and spacecraft, due to their strength and lightweight nature.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=3f97...udGVjaHN0ZWVsLm5ldC9hbGxveS90aXRhbml1bQ&ntb=1 - Comparison with Steel: While steel generally offers higher tensile strength, titanium's strength-to-weight ratio is superior, making it advantageous in many applications. "
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=67e9...bnRlbGxpZ2VuY2UvdGl0YW5pdW0tdnMtc3RlZWw&ntb=1
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=60ec...GVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvVGl0YW5pdW1fYWxsb3lz&ntb=1
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=60ec...GVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvVGl0YW5pdW1fYWxsb3lz&ntb=1
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
That would be Robinson Crusoe on Mars 1964.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Titanium is used in submarine construction, primarily due to its high strength-to-weight ratio, corrosion resistance, and non-magnetic properties.
These characteristics make it ideal for deep-sea diving and stealth operations.
Why titanium is used in submarines:
High Strength-to-Weight Ratio:
Titanium alloys are stronger than steel but weigh significantly less, allowing for lighter submarine hulls and increased diving depth.
Corrosion Resistance:
Titanium's resistance to corrosion in seawater is crucial for the long-term durability of submarines.
Non-Magnetic Properties:
Titanium is non-magnetic, making submarines less susceptible to detection by magnetic anomaly detectors (MAD) used in anti-submarine warfare.
Deep Diving Capabilities:
Titanium's strength and ability to withstand pressure make it suitable for submarines designed to operate at greater depths.
Examples of titanium in submarine construction:
Soviet/Russian Submarines:
The Soviet Union and Russia have utilized titanium in submarines like the Alfa, Sierra, and Mike classes, including the K-278 Komsomolets.
Hulls and Components:
Titanium is used in submarine hulls, propellers, and various other components.
Considerations:
Cost:
Titanium is significantly more expensive than steel, which has historically limited its widespread use in submarine construction, particularly in Western navies.
Fabrication:
Titanium is more challenging to weld and shape than steel, requiring specialized expertise and careful handling during construction.
US Navy:
While the US Navy has experimented with titanium, it has primarily used steel for submarine hulls due to cost and manufacturing challenges.
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The SR-71 Blackbird used a high percentage of titanium in its construction because it was the only metal that could withstand the extreme temperatures generated by flying at Mach 3 speeds, while also remaining relatively lightweight. Approximately 85% of the aircraft's structure was made of titanium, with the remainder consisting of composite materials and some stainless steel.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
High-Temperature Resistance:
Titanium alloys were chosen for their ability to withstand the intense heat generated by friction with the air at speeds exceeding Mach 3.
Lightweight:
While strong, titanium is also relatively lightweight compared to other metals like steel, which was crucial for achieving the Blackbird's high speed and performance.
Specific Alloy Choice:
Lockheed used a titanium alloy that was more easily worked, though it softened at lower temperatures. This required them to develop new fabrication methods for working with the material, which have since been applied to other aircraft.
Expansion Challenges:
Titanium expands when heated, and the Blackbird was designed with this in mind, with parts fitting loosely when cold and snuggly when heated to operating temperature.
Manufacturing Challenges:
Working with titanium was not without its challenges. Lockheed had to develop new techniques for cleaning and machining the metal, including using distilled water to prevent corrosion from tap water and avoiding cadmium-plated tools.
Soviet Supply Chain:
Due to limited domestic supplies, the US sourced some of the titanium for the Blackbird from the Soviet Union through third-party countries and intermediaries.
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
It would come down to exactly what the proportions are.
And from what I knew of submarine and aerospace construction, rather disproportionate.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
High-Temperature Resistance:
Titanium alloys were chosen for their ability to withstand the intense heat generated by friction with the air at speeds exceeding Mach 3.
Lightweight:
While strong, titanium is also relatively lightweight compared to other metals like steel, which was crucial for achieving the Blackbird's high speed and performance.
Specific Alloy Choice:
Lockheed used a titanium alloy that was more easily worked, though it softened at lower temperatures. This required them to develop new fabrication methods for working with the material, which have since been applied to other aircraft.
Expansion Challenges:
Titanium expands when heated, and the Blackbird was designed with this in mind, with parts fitting loosely when cold and snuggly when heated to operating temperature.
Manufacturing Challenges:
Working with titanium was not without its challenges. Lockheed had to develop new techniques for cleaning and machining the metal, including using distilled water to prevent corrosion from tap water and avoiding cadmium-plated tools.
Soviet Supply Chain:
Due to limited domestic supplies, the US sourced some of the titanium for the Blackbird from the Soviet Union through third-party countries and intermediaries.
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
It would come down to exactly what the proportions are.
And from what I knew of submarine and aerospace construction, rather disproportionate.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The V-2 missile, also known as the Aggregat-4 (A-4), was a long-range ballistic missile developed by Germany during World War II. It was the first practical example of a guided missile and was a key milestone in the development of space technology. Its construction involved a complex structure
of sheet steel, a wooden framework in some sections, and various specialized components.
Key Components and Construction:
Structure:
The main body was constructed from thin sheet steel, welded and riveted, with a wooden framework in certain areas.
Warhead:
The nose cone housed a warhead containing 1,650 lbs of amatol explosive, detonated by an impact fuse.
Guidance and Control:
An instrument section behind the warhead contained the guidance and control systems, including gyroscopes and electrical relays connected to graphite vanes in the thrust chamber.
Propellant Tanks:
The center section contained two large tanks, the upper one holding alcohol and water, and the lower one holding liquid oxygen (LOX).
Engine:
The tail section housed the rocket motor, a turbopump, a steam generator, and associated plumbing.
Cooling System:
The motor employed regenerative and film cooling to manage the extreme temperatures generated during combustion.
Fuel:
The rocket was fueled by alcohol and liquid oxygen.
Construction Process:
Early Development:
The initial development of the V-2 took place at the Peenemünde Army Research Center, with the first trial runs conducted in mid-1943.
Mass Production:
After the bombing of Peenemünde, production was moved to the Mittelwerk underground factory in the Harz mountains, where slave labor was used to construct the missiles.
Complex Launch Procedures:
Launching a V-2 was a complex operation, requiring specialized equipment, a large team of soldiers, and a flat, firm launch site.
Guidance System:
The guidance system relied on gyroscopes and graphite vanes in the thrust chamber to control the rocket's trajectory during the initial launch phase.
Significance:
Spaceflight Legacy:
The V-2's technology, particularly its guidance and rocket engine design, played a significant role in the development of later space rockets, including the Saturn V.
Mass Destruction:
Despite its contribution to space exploration, the V-2 was also a weapon of mass destruction, used by Germany to target civilian populations during the war.
The V-2 missile was a remarkable feat of engineering for its time, demonstrating the potential of rocket technology while also highlighting the destructive power that such technology could unleash.
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
Looks primitive enough.
of sheet steel, a wooden framework in some sections, and various specialized components.
Key Components and Construction:
Structure:
The main body was constructed from thin sheet steel, welded and riveted, with a wooden framework in certain areas.
Warhead:
The nose cone housed a warhead containing 1,650 lbs of amatol explosive, detonated by an impact fuse.
Guidance and Control:
An instrument section behind the warhead contained the guidance and control systems, including gyroscopes and electrical relays connected to graphite vanes in the thrust chamber.
Propellant Tanks:
The center section contained two large tanks, the upper one holding alcohol and water, and the lower one holding liquid oxygen (LOX).
Engine:
The tail section housed the rocket motor, a turbopump, a steam generator, and associated plumbing.
Cooling System:
The motor employed regenerative and film cooling to manage the extreme temperatures generated during combustion.
Fuel:
The rocket was fueled by alcohol and liquid oxygen.
Construction Process:
Early Development:
The initial development of the V-2 took place at the Peenemünde Army Research Center, with the first trial runs conducted in mid-1943.
Mass Production:
After the bombing of Peenemünde, production was moved to the Mittelwerk underground factory in the Harz mountains, where slave labor was used to construct the missiles.
Complex Launch Procedures:
Launching a V-2 was a complex operation, requiring specialized equipment, a large team of soldiers, and a flat, firm launch site.
Guidance System:
The guidance system relied on gyroscopes and graphite vanes in the thrust chamber to control the rocket's trajectory during the initial launch phase.
Significance:
Spaceflight Legacy:
The V-2's technology, particularly its guidance and rocket engine design, played a significant role in the development of later space rockets, including the Saturn V.
Mass Destruction:
Despite its contribution to space exploration, the V-2 was also a weapon of mass destruction, used by Germany to target civilian populations during the war.
The V-2 missile was a remarkable feat of engineering for its time, demonstrating the potential of rocket technology while also highlighting the destructive power that such technology could unleash.
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
Looks primitive enough.
It's just a titanium steel alloy. A real world thing mostly used for aircraft and other applications where strength and low weight are crucial. But it's too expensive for most uses where other alloys will do the job.
i.e. not science fiction
That's a good point, in that a rocket doesn't have to be a self-sustaining reaction. Certainly no existing ones are...
The fusion or plasma version would have to outperform other types though, or those would be used. Ion drives are generally the way to go for most purposes, but have very low thrust values, so where those need to be higher there could be applications.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The thing is, in Traveller, we don't really have to worry about mass in space.
Weight saving wouldn't be a factor.
Weight saving wouldn't be a factor.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The rules say TL7 titanium steel armour, they do not mention what an unarmoured hull and structural bulkheads are made from.
Also a basic hull costs the same regardless of TL, so are they made from the same material from TL7 until TL15 with no reduction in construction costs? The rules say yes.
Also a basic hull costs the same regardless of TL, so are they made from the same material from TL7 until TL15 with no reduction in construction costs? The rules say yes.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In the world of metals, two metals often vie for the title as the strongest metal; titanium and steel. Titanium and steel are popularly thought to be "rivals" in the field of high-grade supplies, which we at Dynamic Metals provide. This blog will explore the properties of both titanium and stainless steel materials.
Firstly, let us define what we mean by “strength.” In metallurgy, strength is defined as a material’s ability to withstand stress without breaking or deforming permanently. Tensile strength (the ability to resist forces that pull apart), compressive strength (the ability to resist crushing) and yield strength (where a material starts to give way permanently) are some examples of different types of strengths.
COMPARISON OF TENSILE STRENGTH
However, when it comes to tensile strength, titanium has an edge over steel. Titanium’s ultimate tensile strength is about 63,000 psi while for steel it is close to 50,000 psi. Therefore, compared with the latter, titanium can take more strain before cracking.
COMPARISON OF COMPRESSIVE STRENGTHS
On the other hand, regarding compressive strength; Steel has an advantage over titanium though. In case of steel compressive strength is approximately 50,000 psi whereas for titanium this figure is around 40,000 psi. This means that only one out these elements will get deformed under pressure exceeding certain limits i.e., steel not titanium.
COMPARISON OF YIELD STRENGTHS
Besides yield strength however, the two metals are almost evenly matched. The yield point or yield stress for titanium is about 40 psi or thereabout on average while in mild carbon steels it varies between roughly from 30 up to even 60 psi. This also shows that even if pulled against choke points these two-exhibit similar behaviour.
SO, WHICH ONE IS STRONGER?
So then does Titanium win over Steel? It is not such an easy answer because it depends on what kind of “strength” you are asking about. Titanium has greater tensile strength while steel has higher compressive strength. But for the yield points, these two metals are equals.
DIFFERENT STEEL AND TITANIUM ALLOYS
Within the field there exists a wide range of different titanium alloys and steels that demonstrate distinct special properties. Select high-strength steels demonstrate tensile strengths equivalent to or higher than those titanium alloys show.
We at Dynamic Metals have been working with both metals as well as other high-grade materials for a long time. We have been dealing with both Titanium and steel among other top-notch products for a long time now. We have experience in working with various metals including titanium and steel among others. Factors such as weight, strength, corrosion resistance and price make us to pick the right material for your application.
Dynamic Metals is your best choice whether you need titanium or any other kind of aircraft grade metal, or just plain steel. There are no minimum order quantities needed when buying from Dynamic Metals plus we pride ourselves on our great customer service support. Call us today to know more.
I'd say that steel is ten times cheaper than titanium.
Firstly, let us define what we mean by “strength.” In metallurgy, strength is defined as a material’s ability to withstand stress without breaking or deforming permanently. Tensile strength (the ability to resist forces that pull apart), compressive strength (the ability to resist crushing) and yield strength (where a material starts to give way permanently) are some examples of different types of strengths.
COMPARISON OF TENSILE STRENGTH
However, when it comes to tensile strength, titanium has an edge over steel. Titanium’s ultimate tensile strength is about 63,000 psi while for steel it is close to 50,000 psi. Therefore, compared with the latter, titanium can take more strain before cracking.
COMPARISON OF COMPRESSIVE STRENGTHS
On the other hand, regarding compressive strength; Steel has an advantage over titanium though. In case of steel compressive strength is approximately 50,000 psi whereas for titanium this figure is around 40,000 psi. This means that only one out these elements will get deformed under pressure exceeding certain limits i.e., steel not titanium.
COMPARISON OF YIELD STRENGTHS
Besides yield strength however, the two metals are almost evenly matched. The yield point or yield stress for titanium is about 40 psi or thereabout on average while in mild carbon steels it varies between roughly from 30 up to even 60 psi. This also shows that even if pulled against choke points these two-exhibit similar behaviour.
SO, WHICH ONE IS STRONGER?
So then does Titanium win over Steel? It is not such an easy answer because it depends on what kind of “strength” you are asking about. Titanium has greater tensile strength while steel has higher compressive strength. But for the yield points, these two metals are equals.
DIFFERENT STEEL AND TITANIUM ALLOYS
Within the field there exists a wide range of different titanium alloys and steels that demonstrate distinct special properties. Select high-strength steels demonstrate tensile strengths equivalent to or higher than those titanium alloys show.
We at Dynamic Metals have been working with both metals as well as other high-grade materials for a long time. We have been dealing with both Titanium and steel among other top-notch products for a long time now. We have experience in working with various metals including titanium and steel among others. Factors such as weight, strength, corrosion resistance and price make us to pick the right material for your application.
Dynamic Metals is your best choice whether you need titanium or any other kind of aircraft grade metal, or just plain steel. There are no minimum order quantities needed when buying from Dynamic Metals plus we pride ourselves on our great customer service support. Call us today to know more.
I'd say that steel is ten times cheaper than titanium.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Well ...
If I drill a hole through a planetoid pole, that's ten times cheaper, materially, with nickel iron.
Primitive hull is forty percent cheaper, and I would guess a major part of savings is the primitive power grid and lack of insulation.
On the other hand, primitive planetoids are half cost, have primitive power grid, and lack gravity tiling but keep their hull points.
I'm inclined to ignore insulation issues for primitive planetoids, unless hull insulation is linked to the power grid.
If I drill a hole through a planetoid pole, that's ten times cheaper, materially, with nickel iron.
Primitive hull is forty percent cheaper, and I would guess a major part of savings is the primitive power grid and lack of insulation.
On the other hand, primitive planetoids are half cost, have primitive power grid, and lack gravity tiling but keep their hull points.
I'm inclined to ignore insulation issues for primitive planetoids, unless hull insulation is linked to the power grid.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Default spacecraft hulls kick off at technological level seven, and don't have an upgrade until:
Starting at TL9, all hulls are self-sealing. A self-sealing hull automatically repairs minor breaches, such as micrometeoroid impacts, and prevents hull hits from causing explosive decompression.
Which is going to need something other than just steel.
At no extra cost.
Starting at TL9, all hulls are self-sealing. A self-sealing hull automatically repairs minor breaches, such as micrometeoroid impacts, and prevents hull hits from causing explosive decompression.
Which is going to need something other than just steel.
At no extra cost.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
This is a thread about NEAR FUTURE Traveller TL 5-8 has been discussed as it is about pre Jump and pre M-Drive. So primitive stuff IS the topic. Are you sure you are in the right thread?
