Near Future Traveller

[Sigtrygg]

No, not Pioneer.

What if we take the rules in HG and look as what we can do at TL7 and early TL8, pre gravitcs, pre fusion.

TL7 reaction drives up to 3g, titanium steel armour, fission power plants (+1 advantage), chemical power plants, computer/5, solar panels, single turrets, missile racks, missile and torpedo barbettes and bays, non-gravity hulls, hamster cages for spin gravity.

TL8 increases the drive to 6g, up to 3g are now fuel efficient, fission plants gain another advantage, chemical plants have one advantage, the double turret is now available, laser drills for turret mounting, mass driver bays, improved solar panels.

The TL8 fusion power plant isn't that great an advance over a two advantage fission reactor... although it does simplify fuel requirements

It reminds me of GURPS Terradyne...

 

[MongooseMatt]

Or 'second era' Dark Conspiracy...

 

[Sigtrygg]

Or 'second era' Dark Conspiracy...

Tease...

 

[MongooseMatt]

Tease...

Not that much, we really have not done much development on Dark Conspiracy beyond the first book

 

[Jame Rowe]

Not that much, we really have not done much development on Dark Conspiracy beyond the first book

Do more. Do Less! Or tell us if you plan to do open playtests at some point.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

No, not Pioneer.

What if we take the rules in HG and look as what we can do at TL7 and early TL8, pre gravitcs, pre fusion.

I'd love to see discussion of that (and designs) as my Universe is a Empire expanding into an area of fallen colony worlds of a prior Federation (some recovering others not) and I could definitely use ideas for prestellar space/military abilities that might be encountered.

 

[Sigtrygg]

TL7
A typical civilian ship will be a 1g reaction drive, so that thrust gravity can be utilizsed while under thrust. Military and paramilitary ships would go all the way to 3g and have to use all the g mitigation tools available, g-suits, acceleration couches...

Fuel required is 2.5% per g per hour, 10 hours of thrust at 1g is thrust 25% of the ship, so for long trips burn and coast will be required, better build the staterooms in hamster cages or the like at a surcharge of 0.1 tons per ton you want in the spin gravity - staterooms, bridge...

Non-gravitic hull mean power required due to the the hull displacement is halved, so 10 power points per 100t, which requires 2 tons of chemical power plant or 1.25 tons of fission plant... fuel wise you want a fission plant

So travel will be slow, burn and coast.

 

[Sigtrygg]

A what if springs to mind...

what if the Terrans discover the jump drive before unlocking the secret of gravitics at TL9...

 

[rinku]

Honestly, I think you'd do better to just leave out Fusion plants altogether, or have them as very large things. Solar and fission will get the job done.

If you're going to get rid of gravitics you will need to ramp up the realism a fair bit. Something to cope with orbital dynamics would be required since you can't just thrust at 1G as long as you like to brute force orbital transfers. You'd need to burn into a transfer orbit then burn at intercept to match with the destination (technically this is happening in regular Traveller too, but the constant thrust effectively hides it.)

Three months to get to Mars.

 

[Ol'Weedy]

I'd love to see discussion of that (and designs) as my Universe is a Empire expanding into an area of fallen colony worlds of a prior Federation (some recovering others not) and I could definitely use ideas for prestellar space/military abilities that might be encountered.

I'm working on a similar setting. The max TL is 11, but just prior to the development (at least commercially) of Jump-2. But same in that a self sufficient revived polity is rediscovering 'the old empire's' colonies.
A ship that can pull off 3 straight J-1's, is the pinnacle of high tech. Most worlds are at a level like in the OP's post.

 

[rinku]

A what if springs to mind...

what if the Terrans discover the jump drive before unlocking the secret of gravitics at TL9...

Could be a good setting. Not an unusual scenario in SF literature - and teased with a bit in TNE, which dropped M-Drives as such for plasma reaction drives. If you're able to jump from planet to planet you don't so much need M-Drives and artificial gravity, and can go with acceleration providing ship gravity in a tailsitter. That largely caps ships at 1G for long use, though strapping in gets you up to 2G for medium periods and going harder in combat is still possible.

You'd have to decide how things work in Jumpspace, though. If you go with the default week, is that a week in Zero-G? Spin gravity? Is there some weird Jumpspace effect that provides gravity? (I'd probably go with the first one. Break out the velcro and magnetic slippers.)

Not that you need to stick with a week in Jump for a custom setting. Go with whatever feels right.

If Jump is zero-G because nothing is accelerating, it may make regular planetfall (or spun stationfall) important for long term character health, too.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

I'm working on a similar setting. The max TL is 11, but just prior to the development (at least commercially) of Jump-2. But same in that a self sufficient revived polity is rediscovering 'the old empire's' colonies.
A ship that can pull off 3 straight J-1's, is the pinnacle of high tech. Most worlds are at a level like in the OP's post.

For mine the "Old Federation" for political reasons capped the ships TL to 11 (planets that were a Nexus in the ad hoc Xpress system didn't want J-3 to move the Nexus and resulting economic and political power elsewhere). The most developed worlds topped out at early TL 13. They did have a slightly funky J-3 and a VERY funky J-4 that needed development to get the bugs out but there weren't enough built to do so. So the worlds with access to the old records tend to max at TL 11 or less as that is as far as the old records went.

Redeveloping TL based on records rather than science has kept them from getting into the habit of actual research limiting them further. Worlds that went too far down to read the computer records (and not having made physical books in anticipation of that) do better scientifically but have a harder time doing so. Trading encyclopedias could be very lucrative for such worlds. What would Earth now pay for TL 8 encyclopedias?

The Empire not only didn't lose their TL but increased it. The innermost core worlds are TL16 but they restrict TL so that the frontier is TL 11. Any enemy will likely under estimate them based on that frontier. They develop (through chartered companies) trade alliances beyond the frontier and prepare them for assimilation as they reach TL 11. They use slightly higher TL in their Xpress system than they allow the local worlds so the frontier has TL 12 J-3 express boats. Higher TL warships (or Corporate enforcers of 1000 tons) are allowed when some sabre rattling is needed to persuade Raider Worlds not to touch the Trade Alliances (PCs would quickly find turning raider/pirate unhealthy).

The players would start in a Pocket Empire of TL 10 that the Empire provided a faked partial shipyard and two ships that were in the process of overhaul when the Federation pulled out (TL 9 300 ton Free Trader and a TL 11 100 ton Scout) which gave them access to the computer records as well as working models easily "repaired" to copy. Ideally they would find the old charts were wrong about one system and go there making a TL 4 planet their personal trade monopoly as far as their Pocket Empire was concerned till one day an outside ship shows up and not long after they find their monopoly doesn't apply to trade OUTSIDE their empire and they have competition with deep pockets, TL 11 and experience assimilating Pocket Empires.

So low TL ways for space development would be good for my setting.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Honestly, I think you'd do better to just leave out Fusion plants altogether, or have them as very large things. Solar and fission will get the job done.

With non-gravitic hulls the fission plant is more than capable, especially one you have a couple of TL advances. I will get to an analysis of those, along with advances to the fuel efficiency of the reaction drive.

If you're going to get rid of gravitics you will need to ramp up the realism a fair bit. Something to cope with orbital dynamics would be required since you can't just thrust at 1G as long as you like to brute force orbital transfers.

25% of the ship gives you 10ghours of burn, 5 hours of continuous 1g thrust is not to be sniffed at.

But yes, burn and coast and orbital motion become a thing.

You'd need to burn into a transfer orbit then burn at intercept to match with the destination (technically this is happening in regular Traveller too, but the constant thrust effectively hides it.)

Again 5 hours of constant thrust at 1g, more of you commit more of your ship to fuel - 50% gives 10 ghours on the way there and 10 ghours to slow down

Three months to get to Mars.

Depends on your payload vs fuel choices. For a five and five burn at closest approach it take ~2 weeks, average separation takes ~7.5 weeks, furthest separation ~14 weeks. These a rough calculations, good enough for a look up table.

5 hours acceleration reaches a coasting velocity of 176.6 km/s with a displacement of 1,600,000km, the deceleration phase is just as long, so in 10 hours you cover 3,200,000 km. The coasting distance will depend on the relative Earth-Mars orbital positions.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Could be a good setting. Not an unusual scenario in SF literature - and teased with a bit in TNE, which dropped M-Drives as such for plasma reaction drives. If you're able to jump from planet to planet you don't so much need M-Drives and artificial gravity, and can go with acceleration providing ship gravity in a tailsitter. That largely caps ships at 1G for long use, though strapping in gets you up to 2G for medium periods and going harder in combat is still possible.

G-suits, acceleration couches would allow military to operate at 3g during combat, wouldn't want to sustain 3g for days at a time though...

You'd have to decide how things work in Jumpspace, though. If you go with the default week, is that a week in Zero-G? Spin gravity? Is there some weird Jumpspace effect that provides gravity? (I'd probably go with the first one. Break out the velcro and magnetic slippers.)

Hamster cages and the like for spin gravity is how I would do it

Not that you need to stick with a week in Jump for a custom setting. Go with whatever feels right.

If Jump is zero-G because nothing is accelerating, it may make regular planetfall (or spun stationfall) important for long term character health, too.

Really important point.

 

[Vormaerin]

Honestly, I think you'd do better to just leave out Fusion plants altogether, or have them as very large things. Solar and fission will get the job done.

If you're going to get rid of gravitics you will need to ramp up the realism a fair bit. Something to cope with orbital dynamics would be required since you can't just thrust at 1G as long as you like to brute force orbital transfers. You'd need to burn into a transfer orbit then burn at intercept to match with the destination (technically this is happening in regular Traveller too, but the constant thrust effectively hides it.)

Three months to get to Mars.

2300 has a fair bit of effort put into spin gravity systems and orbital transfer stuff already, since their version of space magic drives doesn't work close to planets and they don't have anti grav stuff at all.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Before moving on to TL8 an update to TL7.
TL7
A typical civilian ship will be a 1g reaction drive, so that thrust gravity can be utilizsed while under thrust. Military and paramilitary ships would go all the way to 3g and have to use all the g mitigation tools available, g-suits, acceleration couches...

Fuel required is 2.5% per g per hour, 10 hours of thrust at 1g is thrust 25% of the ship, so for long trips burn and coast will be required, better build the staterooms in hamster cages or the like at a surcharge of 0.1 tons per ton you want in the spin gravity - staterooms, bridge...

Non-gravitic hull mean power required due to the the hull displacement is halved, so 10 power points per 100t, which requires 2 tons of chemical power plant or 1.25 tons of fission plant... fuel wise you want a fission plant

So travel will be slow, burn and coast.

The first TL upgrade is the TL6 fission power plant can be reduced in size at TL7 from 1.25 tons for 10 power points to 1.125 tons (this is per 100t of ship)

There is an issue with sensors. Despite radar and lidar being commonplace in the real world at TL7 for some reason they don't appear in Traveller until TL8, perhaps this needs fixing in High Guard.
(radar is actually a TL5 invention is it not?)

 

[Condottiere]

Plasma drive is a lot larger, ten times I think, but only sips forty percent fuel of an equivalent reactionary rocket.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

TL7
A typical civilian ship will be a 1g reaction drive, so that thrust gravity can be utilizsed while under thrust. Military and paramilitary ships would go all the way to 3g and have to use all the g mitigation tools available, g-suits, acceleration couches...

For take off from most Earth like worlds you need more than 1g, so a higher g booster to achieve orbit?

 

[Sigtrygg]

For take off from most Earth like worlds you need more than 1g, so a higher g booster to achieve orbit?

I was picturing these as space only - the reaction drive performance is that of a fusion rocket... I suppose you could build starports in out of the way places and 2g your way to space .

A reusable booster is the other way to do it so you are not wasting the extra displacement on a 2g rather than a 1g drive, considering you will be accelerating for hours at a time, You would certainly build muscle crewing a 2g ship, even in your g-suit. Can't imagine the long term stress on your heart would do you much good. 3g for five hours at a time for military... doable but there will be casualties.

High g is going to be for robotic craft... with disadvantages TL7 reaction engines could go all the way to 6g (1 disdvantage, 25% increased fuel use) or even higher 9g (2 disadvantages, 50% increased fuel use). It shortens trips and is more useful in combat search and rescue...

 

[Sigtrygg]

Plasma drive is a lot larger, ten times I think, but only sips forty percent fuel of an equivalent reactionary rocket.

Where is this plasma drive in High Guard? Or is it hidden away in a different book? Does it require a power plant, the reaction drive doesn't.

The reaction drive in High Guard already has the performance of a fusion rocket. The exhaust velocity for such as small amount of fuel used puts the reaction drive way beyond the capabilities of chemical, ion or even plasma rockets. The current propositions for fusion rockets - if they ever fly, could potentially achieve this sort of performance.