Narn thoughts and suggestions
- Thread starter Greg Smith
- Start date
Also sounds like the RPG & the CTA guys, once again?, unfortunately go in entirely different directions the problem than becomes which is correct.
Having said that from a gaming persepctive based on a great deal of discusiion and arguement for some time now on the forum it doesn't look to me that there is room for an upgunned G'Quan without then having problems with G'Quonth's, Bin'taks etc maybe the answer is indeed "heaven forbid" to look downwards for a solution . Either that or lose one of the G'Quan variants.
Having said that from a gaming persepctive based on a great deal of discusiion and arguement for some time now on the forum it doesn't look to me that there is room for an upgunned G'Quan without then having problems with G'Quonth's, Bin'taks etc maybe the answer is indeed "heaven forbid" to look downwards for a solution . Either that or lose one of the G'Quan variants.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Burger said:
I do get your point, but one doesn't necessarily follow the other. This is the B5 ACTA universe, not the B5 TV universe and they are quite different places!
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
To go with my Raid level G'Quan, here are my Battle level G'Quonth and Bin'Tak. Again, I've not really thought about balance here, just nipped and tuck where it felt appropriate.
In essence though, the G'Quonth becomes the "current" G'Quan, but has ion torps instead of an e-mine (as per the fluff), a slightly better beam (the P&P one), and isn't lumbering. It becomes, the "sniper".
The Bin'Tak remains a brawler, which is encouraged by reducing the range of the beams and increasing the range of the secondaries.
Regards,
Dave
Hits & Crew at current G'Quan levels.
+1 AD on Beam
Ion Torpedoes halved in AD
Gain 1 Frazi Flight
Lose Lumbering,
Lose Anti-Fighter
Lose AD on secondaries
Lose e-mine
Hits down 20
Crew down 20
Anti-fighter down 2
Command up 1
Heavy Laser Cannons lose AD and range
Lose AD from e-mine
Lose AD from Ion Torps
Lose AD on all secondaries
Light Ion Cannons upgraded to 10"
In essence though, the G'Quonth becomes the "current" G'Quan, but has ion torps instead of an e-mine (as per the fluff), a slightly better beam (the P&P one), and isn't lumbering. It becomes, the "sniper".
The Bin'Tak remains a brawler, which is encouraged by reducing the range of the beams and increasing the range of the secondaries.
Regards,
Dave
Code:
Battle level G'Quonth
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 55/9
Crew: 65/13
Troops: 4
Craft: 1 Frazi Flight
Special Rules: Jump Engine
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 5 Beam, DD
Ion Torpedo 30 F 4 Precise, SAP
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 6 TL
Light Ion Cannon 8 A 6 TL
Light Ion Cannon 8 P 6 TL
Light Ion Cannon 8 S 6 TL
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 4Hits & Crew at current G'Quan levels.
+1 AD on Beam
Ion Torpedoes halved in AD
Gain 1 Frazi Flight
Lose Lumbering,
Lose Anti-Fighter
Lose AD on secondaries
Lose e-mine
Code:
Battle level Bin'Tak
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 65/13
Crew: 75/20
Troops: 6
Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 1, Jump Engine, Command +2, Jump Engine, Lumbering, Shuttles 2
Mag Gun 18 F 2, TD
Heavy Laser Cannon 20 B 4 Beam, DD
Heavy Laser Cannon 20 A 2 Beam, DD
Energy Mine 30 F 4 AP, Energy Mine, O/S, TD
Ion Torpedo 30 F 2 Precise, SAP
Ion Cannon 10 F 6 TL
Ion Cannon 10 A 4 TL
Ion Cannon 10 P 6 TL
Ion Cannon 10 S 6 TL
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 2
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 4Hits down 20
Crew down 20
Anti-fighter down 2
Command up 1
Heavy Laser Cannons lose AD and range
Lose AD from e-mine
Lose AD from Ion Torps
Lose AD on all secondaries
Light Ion Cannons upgraded to 10"
Cavalier1645
Mongoose
Heres a intresting idea why not give the Narn a crappy verson of the Guardian array
We know why the Centauri big ships (Primus, Octurion, Dargan) don't have interceptors. They (PTB) are making you get maxiumus frigates so you provide point defense. It would stand that possiblily when the Narn force the centauri off their world they would come across a maxiumus frigate (or could got one from all wars and border skrimishes with Centauri). Since the Narn adapt a lesser version of centauri tech (still laugh about Light Ion Cannon), They could adapt a lesser version of the Guardian array (give it leass range like 4" away vs 8" , that forces the Narn to bunch together). There Narn get point defense with out puting on ships like Q'Quan, Bin'tak Or G'Vhann.
Here an example ship for that idea
The H'itmi'Tak
Skrimish
Speed 6
Turns 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 24/5
Crew: 28/6
Troops:
Craft: None
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Escort, Interceptor 1
In Service: 2270+ (ya takes Narn that long to build anything new)
Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 20 B 2 Beam, Double Damage
Let the flames begin..lol
We know why the Centauri big ships (Primus, Octurion, Dargan) don't have interceptors. They (PTB) are making you get maxiumus frigates so you provide point defense. It would stand that possiblily when the Narn force the centauri off their world they would come across a maxiumus frigate (or could got one from all wars and border skrimishes with Centauri). Since the Narn adapt a lesser version of centauri tech (still laugh about Light Ion Cannon), They could adapt a lesser version of the Guardian array (give it leass range like 4" away vs 8" , that forces the Narn to bunch together). There Narn get point defense with out puting on ships like Q'Quan, Bin'tak Or G'Vhann.
Here an example ship for that idea
The H'itmi'Tak
Skrimish
Speed 6
Turns 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 24/5
Crew: 28/6
Troops:
Craft: None
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Escort, Interceptor 1
In Service: 2270+ (ya takes Narn that long to build anything new)
Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 20 B 2 Beam, Double Damage
Let the flames begin..lol
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
Just to give some choice at Battle - no other reason! Well, ok, apart from the fact that it is still difficult to choose the Bin'Tak over the G'Vrahn at War since it seems Matt won't countenance swapping the E-mines.
Regards,
Dave
Cavalier1645
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:
Only reason to take a Bin'tak now is its command rating and ammount damage it takes. In a tactical fight I would always G'Vrahn over Bin'Tak. In strategic (Campaign) sense a Bin'Tak is more appropiate. Don't like the big ships like the Bin'tak, I prefer manueverabitly.
Tzarevitch
Mongoose
The reason the G'Quan is compared to the Hyperion is because when the G'Quan was being planned the Hyperion was the standard earthforce heavy cruiser. The Omega didn't exist yet. I am also not sure that references to the Hyperion made by the builders are a reason to downgrade it to raid.
Secondly, making the G'Quan raid makes the Narn problems worse. The Narn already have several decent choices at raid, most of which are arguably better than the proposed raid G'Quan at what they do (the Var'nic first and foremost). All that needs to be done is to fix the G'Quan so it can compete properly at battle level. Downgrading the G'Quan into an already crowded prioroty level isn't helpful.
Tzarevitch
Secondly, making the G'Quan raid makes the Narn problems worse. The Narn already have several decent choices at raid, most of which are arguably better than the proposed raid G'Quan at what they do (the Var'nic first and foremost). All that needs to be done is to fix the G'Quan so it can compete properly at battle level. Downgrading the G'Quan into an already crowded prioroty level isn't helpful.
Tzarevitch
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Tzarevitch said:
Neither do I - it's just an idea, and one that's far too drastic to be considered outside a complete V3 overhaul! However, according to MGPs own RPG fluff, it is less well armoured than an Omega, and on screen evidence shows that it is quite a bit smaller than an Omega. The V1.1 P&P G'Quan matches none of the fluff in the RPG.
I don't disagree - but that doesn't seem particularly likely to happen now does it? It seems that Matt and the playtesters are "happy" with the proposed changes to the G'Quan in the V1.1 P&P play test document - which still sucks by more than 2:1 (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=37071)!
As I said originally, I'm not seriously advocating a Raid G'Quan, but I'd rather see the model on the table than not at all. At least I can see a use for my suggested Raid G'Quan, whereas with the V1.1 P&P Battle G'Quan I cannot.
Regards,
Dave
hmm, coming in late after ignoring this thread for a few days, RPG fluff, the show, and ACTA often do not agree. If we use RPG fluff, where are the drakh shield ships and temple ships (officially) and if we watch the show, i see nothing to suggest aG'Quan is smaller than an Omega, we only need to see the releative shots of the Starfuries alongside said ships.
That said, even if the G'Quan as a fraction of the size, it is it's abilities that count, not it's size. Also, X races anwser to Y, doesn't mean it will be the same power, or size, just look at the Battle level Liati compared to the ISA Whitestar at raid, or the Drakh light raider at Skirmish.
A raid G'Quan, is an idea, anything to get an iconic ship model used, sadly, it would have to be borderline broken for me to consider it above the Var'Nic, dag'Kar and even G'Karith (which is superb in the right situations)
That said, even if the G'Quan as a fraction of the size, it is it's abilities that count, not it's size. Also, X races anwser to Y, doesn't mean it will be the same power, or size, just look at the Battle level Liati compared to the ISA Whitestar at raid, or the Drakh light raider at Skirmish.
A raid G'Quan, is an idea, anything to get an iconic ship model used, sadly, it would have to be borderline broken for me to consider it above the Var'Nic, dag'Kar and even G'Karith (which is superb in the right situations)
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:
Not this playtester. Hence this thread.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
hiffano said:
Where indeed! My sole exposure to the B5 RPG has been the G'Quan deck plans and Narn regime PDFs I downloaded yesterday. I would've thought that two games produced by the same company and based in the same "universe", could share the same fluff in a meaningful way. From looking at the Narn Regime book though, it does seem that a lot of the text fluff in ACTA came from the RPG - for instance, both books say the following of the Rongoth:
The Kha’Ri do not tend to upset successful combinations and the Rongoth has proven itself in hundreds of engagements
I've yet to see one!
The site linked below has an interesting commentary on the size of the G'Quan, which is backed up by some reasonably convincing evidence.
http://www.babtech-onthe.net/narn/
Indeed - and in my opinion the current G'Quan doesn't even perform at the level of the Raid level Var'Nic!
Regards,
Dave
Greg Smith
Mongoose
There are several other comparison sites that put it at anything between 1200-1500m long. Some have evidence others don't.
http://www.meshweaver.com/Craft_Comparisons/Craft_Comparisons_1.htm
http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/comparison_large.png
http://www.merzo.net/
http://www.b5tech.com/narn/narnships/narncapships/gquan.html
http://www.meshweaver.com/Craft_Comparisons/Craft_Comparisons_1.htm
http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/comparison_large.png
http://www.merzo.net/
http://www.b5tech.com/narn/narnships/narncapships/gquan.html
