Narn Ship Variants: Redo's and a few new ones

[angelus2000]

After taking a good look at the "Where the Narn Love?" thread, I sat down and did a bit of thinking. Seeing as that many suggestion where made reagarding some of the less-used ships and variants, I decided to sit down and issue forth my own opinions and some variants of these less used ships. Regarding several other thread about player-made ships being much too powerful, I valiantly attempted to not do so in making these variants. SO without further ado...

Patrol PL Choices

None of these struck me as needing any attempts at correction; cheap little patrol vessel are just that, cheap. So on to...

Skirmish PL Choices

Ka'Toc/Ka'Tan, G'Karith/G'Sten, Sho'Kar, Thentus, Dag'Gal

The overabundance of great skirmish level ships the Narn can use in this PL was pointed by several posters. The one ship in question was the Dag'Kar, as it was in the grey area of PL appropriatness that other ships find themselvs in, namely the Saggi and Tert for regualrs here. SO I set about creating a Skirmish Level variant of the Dag'Kar, the Dag'Gal

Name: Dag'Gal
PL: Skirmish
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 24/6
Crew: 34/10
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy MIne 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow-Loading
Energy MIne 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow-Loading
Twin Particle Array 8 P 6 Twin-Linked,Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 6 Twin-Linked,Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked,Weak

During the War of Retribution, Dag'Kar attrition rates became so prohibitively expensive to replace that serious though was given into
discontinuing production of the vessel. Admirals appreciative of the Dag'Kar offensive potential and ability to carry variants of the
Energy MIne, instead petioned the Kha'Ri to instead a simpler version wih upgraded self-defense weapons, as many of the original
Dag'Kars were lost to Centauri Raiders jumping in from hyperspace. The Dag'Gal was the result. Removal of half of the Dag'Kars
Energy Mine Launchers and simpler contruction techniques resulted in a vesel retaining much of originals punch while replacing the
Ion Torpedoes with Aft and Side Twin-Particles with a method of detering oppurtunistic raiders.

Hope that helps. I removed much fo the Dag'Kars weaponry and toned down its Dam/Crew scores. I'm hoping this will allow for the change in PL and the Twin Arrays added. Now that's done it on to.....

Raid PL Choices

Rongoth/Rothan/Rothec, T'Loth/T'rann, Dag'Kar/Dag'tral, Var'Lann

One poster in a thread described Raid PL as the Achilles heel of the Narn, and I strongly agree. Rongoth/Rothan are the best of the bunch, but are too outgunned trying to act like Battle PL ships. T'loth attempt to be both a raid ship and troop transport, while not having the weapons to do either(although the best of the bunch compartively). The T'Rann is abysmal, but considering the lack of fighters in Narn Fleet in general, is understandable. The Dag'Kar is over- and under-gunned at the same time. SO time for some complete rewrite in some cases. The Var'nic is simply not an the appropriate PL given its design, so a slightly adjusted variant make in appearance as the Var'Lann. The Rothec is an updated version of the Rongoth to the Crusade Era. The Dag'tral is a strenghened version of the Dag'Kar.

Name: Rothec
PL: Raid
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 38/10
Crew: 48/12
Troops: 2
Craft: 1 Frazi Flight
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2267+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannon 15 F 8 AP, DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak

After the near complete destruction of the Narn Fleets at the hands of the Centauri and their Shadow Allies and their withdawal, the Kha'RI began reconstruction of the fleet and several G'Quan class battlecruiser were laid down. However, due to the compexlity and sheer size of the G'quan's, there would be a dangerous gap in the ability of the Regimes forces ability to engage frontline enemy forces.
Several admirals, have previously served aboard the Rongoth-Class Destroyer, requested an interim ship based on the Rongoth capable of filling the gap until the G'Quans were ready. Once initial prototypes sailed from the graving docks, it quickly became apparent that the Rothec would perform magnificaently in that role.
Heavy Plasma Cannons based from the earlier Rothan Destroyer gave the Rothec a solid punch, while the all aspect particle arrays and pulse cannons ensured that the Rothec would be able to deal heavy damge to any foe, no matter it's bearing.
Due to the hasty nature of the Rothecs contruction and the shortage of high quality alloy, the Rothec is not as sturdy as the Rongoth and any potential captian would be well aware of this hidden fraility.

Name: Dag'Tral
PL: Raid
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 30/10
Crew: 36/8
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy MIne, Slow-loading
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy MIne, Slow-loading
Ion Torpedoes 30 F 4 Precise, Super AP
Twin-Particle Array 8 P 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin-Particle Array 8 S 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin-Particle Array 8 A 8 Twin-Linked, Weak

Following on to the succesful deployment of the Dag'Gal, serious consideration of constructing more of the original Dag'Kar
was undertaken once suitable resources became available following the G'Quans contruction runs. However, senoir commanders
and some members were reluctant to do so considering the ships high attrition rate revealed its weaknesses; namely, its abundance
of Energy Mine launchers left little room for much else in the way of weaponry.
The Dag'Kar plans were sent back to deisgn phase, emphasizing increased self-protection capability and more varied offensive weapons, as the energy mine had shown limited use in stopping Shadow Vessels.
At first re-design went well, with half of the launchers being stripped in favor of ubiqtious twin-paticle arrays covering the ship in all directions. Once the new array were in place, some power was re-routed was to the still-existant mine launchers, thereby boosting the explosive pontential of the mines. On the additinal weapons, however, the design team became stuck as other weapons options were simply too large or could not be powered due to the Dag'Kars design.
One enterprising designer, Ner'Tral, commented that since they had removed half the mine launchers, they should simply double the amount of Ion torpedos the ship carried. A few months later, a chagrined Ner'Tral attended the launch of the new Dag'Tral Missle Frigate, as the design team was indebted to him for pointing out the obvious.

Name: Var'Lann
PL: Raid
Speed: 9
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 36/10
Crew: 46/14
Troops: 3
Craft: 1 Frazi Flight
Special Rules : Jump Point
In Service: 2265+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Medium Laser Cannon 20 B 4 Beam, DD, Super AP
Heavy Plasma Cannon 15 F 4 DD, AP
Ion Torpedo 30 F 2 Super Ap, Precise
Twin Particle Array 8 F 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak

During the War of Retribuition, Var'Nic Class Long Range Destroyers were key in hunting down of severalCentuari leaders responsible for atrocties commited during the recent Occupation, as well as the long distant
orignal Occupation. While highly effective in its intended role, on several occasions lone Var'Nics were badly damaged or lost when the opposing forces out-numbered it, as the Var'Nic was simply too time-consuming to construct more the a handful.
Keeping in mind its intended role, a new version of the Var'Nic was ordered, with an eye on reduced building time while still retaining its weapons fit and speed. Although the new Var'Lann was able to keep up with the Var'Nic and be able to be produced in much greater numbers
, the designers were forced to sacrifice durability and some of the original secondarie weapons to be able to do so. The beams were retained,
but Heavy and Light Pulse cannons and Ion Torpedoes were reduced or replaced with plasma cannons and twin-particle arrays in order to reduce
construction time and complexity.
Reception of the Var'Lann has been mixed since its introduction to the fleet. While the plasma cannon on the Var'Lann was aceptable to many admirals, the loss of the Var'Nics durablity has been keenly felt, as the variant has been lost on many occasions where a Var'Nic would have survived.

Battle PL Choices

G'Quan, G'Lan, G'Quonth, G'Tal, Var'Nic, Var'Ton, T'Kath

Battle PL for the Narn was noted as being adequate in previous posts. G'Quans are quite capable with what the do although many bemoaned its lack of beam power, inn comparison to other Battle PL choices. But overall, it was noted the 2 war level variants were simply noted powerful enough to justify being bumped up. So witha bit of re-working, I managed to stick them back into Battle PL. The Var'Ton is a re-worked Var'Nic but emphasizing e-mines and fighters. The T'Kath is a re-worked T'Lann, making it more suitale of a carrier, although still weak in comparison to other races carriers

Name: G’Quoneth Attack Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 55/13
Crew: 70/19
Troops: 4
Craft: None
Special Rules: Jump Point
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 18 B 5 Beam, DD, Super AP
Ion Torpedoes 30 F 2 Precise, Super AP
Pulsar Mines 18 F 6 Energy Mine
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 6 DD, Twin-Linked
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6


All of original G’Qounth attack cruiser variants were lost during the Centauri Occupation and the Great War the followed. In the aftermath of the rebuilding, serious consideration was given to refitting G’Quans back into the G’Qounths as hulls became available during refits. With the success of the Rothec, a redesign was given to G’Qounth, emphasizing short range firepower to match the Rothecs’s over the long range G’Quan.
The Energy Mines were gutted in favor of a single quick-firing pulsar mine launcher and the beams were downrated in range in order to increase raw power. The Ion torpedoes from the first design were kept in order to provideinitial long range salvoes.
At first, the light pulse cannons to the fore were to be kept. The first prototypes did trials using them and deemed adequate. However a growing stockpile of heavy pulse cannon were available to to G’Stens being decommissioned. These were used to replace the light pulse cannons once it was determined there was sufficient power available.

Name: G’Tal Command Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 60/14
Crew: 75/20
Troops: 4
Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Command 2+
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc D Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 4 Beam, DD, Super AP
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy Mine, Slow Loading
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 4 DD, Twin-linked
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 8
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 8

The new design G’Tal command cruiser was an attempt to improve the survivability of the original, as the first G’Tals offensive upgrades highlighted the threat it posed to other enemy ships. While keeping the originals command facilitys, much of the energy mine launchers were removed in favor of increasing the amount of twin-particle arrays and light pulse cannons the ship carried. Heavy Pulse Cannons were fitted to front in place of the light pulse cannons in concession to some captains that felt some short range offensive power was entailed

Name: Var’Ton Long Range Support Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 7
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 44/11
Crew: 58/14
Troops: 4
Craft: 6 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 2
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 2 Beam, DD, Super AP
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow loading
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow Loading

With the addition of the Var’Lann to the Fleet, hunter packs consisting of Var’Nic and Var’Lanns were proving capable of dealing major damage to any single ship, regardless of size or race.
During simulations, however, the fighters carried by the Var’s were proving insufficient to screen and cover them during attack runs from opposing light raiders and fighters. Realizing this defiency, a small number of the Var’Nics were retrofitted with additional hanger bays, control facilites, and E-mine launchers in order to cover the pack on their attack run. Sacrificing all short range protection ability, the new Var’Ton proved admirable is this role. In order to provide even more support, the Medium Laser Cannons were removed in replaced with longer range Heavy Laser Cannons, although some power had to be diverted from the engines in order to accomplish this goal.
Such a singular purpose come at a cost, though. The lack of any short range weapons leave the Var’Ton dangerously exposed if the very fighters and light raiders it was designed to defeat manages to flank it.

Name: T’Kath Heavy Carrier
PL: Battle
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 60/12
Crew: 90/21
Troops: 6
Craft: 10 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 2, Shuttles 2
In Service: 2269+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 5
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 5
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 5
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 5

The T’Rann, while an admirable attempt at providing fighter based support to the narn fleet, was in fact a failure in the eyes of many Narn admirals. Not so much because it was a bad idea, but because the designer attempted to retain to much of its original assault transports functions, including speed and weapons fit. Following the War of retribution, serious effort was given to redisgn of the T’Rann in order to give the Regime its first true carrier. The T’Kath was the result.
Much of the T’Rann weapons were removed in order to provide the necessary capacity for installion of dedicated launch and recovery facilites. Redesigned engines provide for nearly a 300 percent increase for fighter capacity, as the newer engines were much more compact, although a severe reduction in speed was noted. Re-arangement of the fighter bays into more effient space even managed to free up enough space to bring back some of the T'Loths assault role, as the new launch facilites were capable of handling shuttles.
While highly effective in its role, at present there are vey few T’Kaths currently serving the Narn Regime. The necessary refits are extremely time-consuming as the T’Loth hull is very old and much strengthening and replacement is needed in order to convert it into a T’Kath.

War PL Choice

Bin'Tak

Do you need more than a Bin'Tak? If so, please check into your local hospital for psychiatric evaluation as you have obviously lost your mind. Thank you and good day.

I'll post out the last 2 ships I wanted to redo later in the post, the G'Quan Variants. I've also have a few variants of the G'Karith, Thentus, and the T'Loth I'll edit in this post later.

EDIT: The Battle PL ships are now in.

Let me know if I'm completely nuts or spot on.

 

[Morgoth]

Some good and interesting ideas, but I fear that the ships you have designed are a little too powerful in the most part. These are my takes on your deisgns:

Name: Dag'Gal
PL: Skirmish
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 24/6
Crew: 34/10
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow-Loading
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow-Loading
Twin Particle Array 8 P 4 Twin-Linked,Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 5 Twin-Linked,Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 5 Twin-Linked,Weak

Remember that the energy mine is quite a specialised mine, if they were down graded to pulsar mines I could understand the ship with your stats but this ships could potentially have 8AD of Super AP DD, but I do understand the rational for the twin particle arrays.


Name: Rothec
PL: Raid
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 38/10
Crew: 48/12
Troops: 2
Craft: 1 Frazi Flight
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2267+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannon 15 F 4 AP, DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Twin Particle Array 8 F 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak

I felt that your original design was an awesome warship, and packed too much firepower and its weapon systems outclassed both the rothan and tongoth making this the prime choice and the others redundant. So I tried to balance it out so all had their appeal.


Name: Dag'Tral
PL: Raid
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 30/8
Crew: 36/8
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy Mine, Slow-loading
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy Mine, Slow-loading
Ion Torpedoes 30 F 2 Precise, Super AP
Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Pulse Cannon 8 S 8
Pulse Cannon 8 A 8

I thought this was a reasonable design also, but felt that again it over shadowed the original too much to make picking the original pointless, again I was thinking of balance. So I brought down the Ion torps back to standard and changed the Particle arrays for Pulse Cannons.


Name: Var'Lann
PL: Raid
Speed: 9
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 30/6
Crew: 40/8
Troops: 3
Craft: 1 Frazi Flight
Special Rules : Jump Point
In Service: 2265+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Medium Laser Cannon 20 B 3 Beam, DD, Super AP
Heavy Plasma Cannon 12 F 4 DD, AP
Ion Torpedo 30 F 2 Super Ap, Precise
Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Pulsa Cannon 8 A 6

Again I liked the idea of this vessel but felt it needed a few little tweaks. Again I changed thte twin patricle arrays for pulse cannons. Then changed the range of the plasma cannon ( again thinking of balance within the priority level - thinking of rothan etc) I also reduced the Power of the medium laser cannon, however I did up the hull rating and changed its damage and crew stats.

I would be interested in seeing further ideas you have, The Narn supplement ( by myself and Hiffano) in the player resources has a lot of Narn designs in from the early era, a lot designed by myself. I think you may be interested in them balance wise etc. I think in particular you will be interested in a Rothan variant.

 

[angelus2000]

Thx Morgoth. I was concerned that these would be a tad too powerful for ht level, and I agreee with your change for the most part.

Dag'Tral; rebalanced perfectly. I understand why some would be concerned about 8AD of DD, SAP dice but with such a low speed ad hull, it would most likely be crippled before it could fire. SHipbreakers only have a range of 10. Many of the other specialized gunboat design have beams or missle with much greater range .

Rothec; rebalance adequately; 8AD of plasma dice was too much, but i fear 4AD is too little. The rothec isn't as sturdy as the rongoth or rothan so maybe a little more forward punch would be justified before it goes poof. Although I did notice you added F arc pulse cannons to compensate.

Dag'Tral; perfect. I was sort of iffy on doubling the Ion torpedoes dice to begin with, and I most likely should have gone with 3AD on them. Although I am curious as to the reason pulse cannon were swapped for the particle arrays. Arrays able to hit too much?

Var'Lann; perfect. I missed the range on the plasma cannons, 12 inch was what i meant to put in(buttefinger typing).

Beside a certain bias on the twin-particel array/pulse cannon we seem to be on opposite sides of, thank you for your input. I admit that some of these designs are fairly powerful, in comparison to existing Narn ships. But these were meant to be Crusade Era only ships, IE not avaible during the Great War or earlier.

Anyhoos, I'm going to continue my next post with the Battle PL's

 

[angelus2000]

added 4 new battle variants to the first post, G'Qouneth, G'Tal, Var'Ton, and T'Kath

 

[Triggy]

Taking a look at your ships here are my thoughts:

Dag'Kal - pretty good ship, no major issues.

Ro'Thec - not too bad but either needs to drop the heavy plasma cannon to 4AD (as already suggested) or drop it to 6AD and lose the fighter flight.

Dag'Tral - similar comments to Morgoth again, drop the ion torpedoes to 2AD and although I don't feel switching the particle arrays to pulse cannon is necessary, the extra fighter cover the arrays provide do tend to negate a serious weakness the Dag'Kar has.

Var'Lann - not a bad ship, but I'd drop the ion torpedo entirely to balance it up. At the moment it "feels" right but still has just a touch too much firepower.

G'Quoneth - For a battle level cruiser you've basically added a lot of heavy firepower and dropped a small amount of light firepower and the fighters (range matters but 18" is still only a small drop in effectiveness). Drop the ion torpedo, make the laser cannon 3AD and the heavy pulse cannon 4AD should right things. It still has a more firepower at short range but loses the fighters and a small amount of its anti-fighter defences.

G'Tal (your version, not the one in SFoS) - Get rid of the heavy pulse cannon entirely and it's good to go!

Var'Ton - I like it a lot. Not too much firepower lost but a good number of fighters included. I particularly enjoy the fact the firepower lost is the close-in anti-fighter stuff but it now has e-mines!

T'Kath - a little underpowered actually. Give it fleet carrier and the medium pulse cannon 12" F 6AD Double Damage back and it's a Battle level ship.


Morgoth - good points of view, I generally share your opinions which is rare for me on this board (when I'm so opinionated!). I may have slightly different ways of levelling things up but as always, there are so many ways of achieving balance in this system!

 

[Celisasu]

Just one question. Is it really right to downgrade ships to be equal to the Rongoth which is seen as being underpowered? I thought it was seen as redundant because it was a crappy ship. Sort of like how you never see Havens used by the Centauri. :lol:

I agree some do seem overpowered, but I'm not sure if going by the logic of "I like this better than the Rongoth, thus it's too powerful" is the right way of going about balancing them. It might be better to compare them to a ship from another fleet, one that most people consider neither too strong nor too weak. Narn aren't known for their worthwhile raid ships after all. Why else do we use 10 skirmish ships in 5 point Raid fleets?

 

[Ripple]

Agree with Celisasu.

Nice attempts at ship design all around though.

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

Agree with Celisasu.

Nice attempts at ship design all around though.

Ripple

I compared these ships generally to one Narn, one Centauri and one "other" ship when I looked at them.

 

[Celisasu]

My stance on the Ro'thec is to drop the Heavy Plasma Cannon to 6AD. Perhaps get rid of the fighter flight as well. Agreed that 8AD is too much. But 4AD is probably too little.

 

[Morgoth]

More variants for me to look at... okay I have given them my view on them. Tried to balance them a little more.

Name: G’Quoneth Attack Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 55/13
Crew: 70/19
Troops: 4
Craft: None
Special Rules: Jump Point
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 25 B 4 Beam, DD, Super AP
Pulsar Mines 20 F 6 Energy Mine
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 4 DD, Twin-Linked
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6

Downgraded the Heavy laser cannon to 4 AD, but up'd its range to 25. Also up'd the range of the pulsar mines to 20. Also downgraded the Heav y Pulse Cannon. Removed the Ion Trop as this gave it too much firepower and I like the Ion Torp being in the Var'Nic class at battle laevel. Again there is more chance that this ship would be picked instead of languishing next to the Bin'Tak never getting picked.


Name: G’Tal Command Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 55/14
Crew: 72/20
Troops: 4
Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Command 2+
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc D Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 3 Beam, DD, Super AP
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy Mine, Slow Loading
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 8
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 8
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 8

Very little changed here, just the Heavy Pulse Cannon as was a bit over the top as the ship brings the command +2 trait to the battlefield. A slight tweak on the crew and damage scores and its fine. reduced the Beam to bring it in line with the G'Quan. The standard SFOS G'Tal is a ship that never seems to appear in fleets - why take it when the Bin'Tak is available!! SO would be good to see it more often.



Name: Var’Ton Long Range Support Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 8
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 44/11
Crew: 58/14
Troops: 2
Craft: 6 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 2
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 2 Beam, DD, Super AP
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy Mine, Slow loading
Pulse Cannon 12 F 4
Pulse Cannon 8 A 4

Another interesting idea, I rationalised increasing the speed as it is meant to accompany Var'Nic squadrons. The Energy mine inclusion was interesting and I thought good, but I kept one which replaced the Ion Torpedo launcer. However I thought that the ship should have some basic defence in the form of Pulse Cannons, so it can defend itself against other capital ships. Reduced the troop compliment as the berths gave way to flight crew areas


Name: T’Kath Heavy Carrier
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 70/12
Crew: 100/21
Troops: 6
Craft: 8 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 2, Shuttles 2, Fleet Carrier
In Service: 2269+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 6 AP DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6

I liked the idea behind this design, I have upgraded the weapons a little, added a main gun so it is a not total push over. Up'd the speed a little, the crew and damage to reflect extra damage control centres and hangar crews. Slightlt reduced the fighetr capacity. And added the Fleet Carrier trait as it is a true carrier warship.


I would be interested in seeing any other designs you think of, always good to see otehr takes on ships

 

[angelus2000]

Slightly re-worked stats based on the suggestions so far

Name: Rothec
PL: Raid
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 38/10
Crew: 48/12
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2267+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannon 15 F 6 AP, DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Twin Particle Array 8 F 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak

In response to triggy, quite agree on the Frazi flight. AD on all weapons was reduced to morogth suggestions. 6AD on the plasma cannon seem more apporpriate than my orignal 8 and the 4AD suggested elsewhere. I know it does seem overpowered compared to the rongoth/rothan, but please remember this is a late Crusade Era ship and the weaker hull removes one of the key strengths of the original hull, the ability to take a pounding like an Omega or Primus can.

Name: Dag'Tral
PL: Raid
Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 30/10
Crew: 36/8
Troops: 2
Craft: None
Special Rules : None
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy MIne, Slow-loading
Energy Mine 30 F 6 Energy MIne, Slow-loading
Ion Torpedoes 30 F 3 Precise, Super AP
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4

I agree with suggestions that 4AD on the Ion torpedoes was too much and that the particle arrays did negate the fighter weakness too much. However I felt some strengthening of the Ion Torps was justified due to the reduction of launchers the Dag'Kar had. Light pulse cannons are now used as well but downrate in AD.

Name: Var'Lann
PL: Raid
Speed: 9
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 30/6
Crew: 40/8
Troops: 3
Craft: None
Special Rules : Jump Point
In Service: 2265+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Medium Laser Cannon 20 B 3 Beam, DD, Super AP
Heavy Plasma Cannon 12 F 4 DD, AP
Ion Torpedo 30 F 2 Super Ap, Precise
Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Pulsa Cannon 8 A 4

This is Morgoths Re-worked stats and I agree completely with him on weapons AD. However, the Frazi flight was dumped due to the inclusion of the Var'Tons fighters.

Name: G’Quoneth Attack Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 55/13
Crew: 70/19
Troops: 4
Craft: None
Special Rules: Jump Point
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Medium Laser Cannon 15 B 4 Beam, DD, Super AP
Ion Torpedoes 2 AD Super AP, Precise
Twin Particle Array 8 F 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 6 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 10 Twin-Linked, Weak
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 6 DD, Twin-Linked
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6

Never being all that happy with the stats I orignally gave, I agree with suggesstions that it was still a bit overpowered in comparison to the G'quan. However, it went the opposite route to morgoths re-worked stas. The Ion torpedoes were kept, pulsar mines were droped entirely, the heavy laser cannons were replaced with medium lasers. and the AD of the Heavy Pulse Cannons was kept at 6AD. Now the G'qouneth will be able to unload few salvoes of cripplig Ion torpedoes before closing into bearm and pulse cannon range to finish off the enemy ship.

Name: Var’Ton Long Range Support Cruiser
PL: Battle
Speed: 7
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 44/11
Crew: 58/14
Troops: 2
Craft: 6 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 2
In Service: 2268+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Beam Cannon 30 B 2 DD, Super AP, Beam
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow loading
Energy Mine 30 F 4 Energy Mine, Slow loading
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6

My intended role was for the Var'Ton to accompany the Var'nic squadrons to the battle but not accompany them into firing range of other capital ships. Morgoth, I have some concern as to what the reasoning was on dropping the second e-mine launcher. I understand potential shipbreaker concern, but this variants was never meant to use those in the first place.
Agreed on the light pulse cannons though.

Name: T’Kath Heavy Carrier
PL: Battle
Speed: 6
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 70/12
Crew: 100/21
Troops: 6
Craft: 10 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point, Carrier 3, Shuttles 2,
In Service: 2269+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 4 AP DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6

Dumped a few of the heavy Pulse Cannon Dice in favor of extra figher flights and an additional point in carrier. I can understand the inclusion of Fleet Carrier, but I wanted the T'Kath to represent an early attempt at a true carrier. According to some of the threads I've read, the Avenger in the Early list doesn't possess fleet carrier either and that is the feel of what I was going for. It may carry a much larger amount of fighter than in the past but true C&C facilities are still a bit beyond the Regimes capabilities. That and it veered too much into EA, ISA and others realms of specialities


Unfortunately, morgoth, this was kinda it as far as alternate designs in my head. The main reason for me doing this post was an attempt to give variants that corrected imbalances in SFOS, mainly th lack of decent raid PL ships and odd PL choices like the Dag'Kar and Var'Nic. I've got little interest in playing around with patrol PL, as I'd defintly make them overpowered, skirmish level is replete with excellent choices, and who need more than the Bin'Tak at War PL, the ship that can do it all :twisted:

If I happen to come up with anything else I post it here. Morgoth, heres my express permission if you'd like to use these in any upcoming Crusade Era supplement you may have been cooking up

 

[angelus2000]

Decided to re-work the Var'Nic itself


Name: Var’Nic-class Long Ranger Destroyer
PL: Battle
Speed: 9
Turn: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 44/11
Crew: 58/14
Troops: 3
Craft: 1 Frazi Flights
Special Rules: Jump Point
In Service: 2268+

Medium Laser Cannon 20 B 4 Beam, DD Super AP
Ion Torpedo 30 F 4 Super AP, Precise
Heavy Plasma Cannon 12 F 4 DD, AP
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Twin Particle Array 8 F 8 Twin-Linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 A 4 Twin-Linked, Weak

The difference between the Var'Lann and Var'NIc is now 14/18, 1AD lasers, 2 AD ion torps, and the particle arrays

 

[Morgoth]

Angelus, interesting to see what you've done . There are a couple of ships I know Mongoose themselves are working on to, and another I have sent in to Mongoose for inclusion in S & P, although I had already done one of the ships they were working on already also - speak to Hiff about it.... So there should be some extra bits for you to have a look at, plus I think you wil be really impressed with the G'Vrahn too.

With regards to your second round of stats:

Rothec - happy with
Dag'Tral - still think the Ion Torp's should be 2AD but heh
Var'Lann - more than happy with
G'Quonth - this is a hard ship to redesign....
Var'Ton - happy with
T'Kath - think the heavy pulse cannon should have more AD

 

[angelus2000]

Can't wait to see the G'Vrahn. Now as long as its as good as a Bin'Tak...
I think I saw in another thread a new raid or skirmish level Narn Model was going to make an appearance as well, any truth?

Decided to include another Raid PL ship in this post. Based of the the Sho'Kar.

Name: Tarkan Heavy Scout Cruiser
PL: Raid
Speed: 8
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 26/9
Crew: 34/10
Troops: 2
Craft: 2 Frazi Flight
Special Rules: Jump Point, Scout
In Service: 2268+

Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 4 DD
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 4
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 4
Twin Particle Array 8 A 4 Twin-linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 P 4 Twin-linked, Weak
Twin Particle Array 8 S 4 Twin-linked, Weak

TheSHo’Kar light scout cruiser was the Regimes first true electronic warfare ship, enabling G’quans and other long range to more accurately fire and proved invaluable in detecting Centuari Ambushs, enabling fleet commanders time to meet the oncoming forces. Severe defieciencys were noted in the ship ability to survive incoming fire, as Sho’Kar were often the first to be destroyed in any engagement. Long range patrols often proved problematic as well, as lone SHo’Kars were easily overwhelmed, despite extensive armaments.
The Tarkan was an attempt to rectify this. Based on the Sho’Kars hull, bulkheads were heavily re-inforced and armor plating was added in areas most targeted by enemy fire. Additional pulse cannons and twin array were added in all fire arcs to provide self-defense fire, heavy pulse cannons were retrofitted to the fore to provide some offensive bunch in place of the antiquated Burst Beams. Additionally, the hanger bays were nearly doubled in size. However the necessary upgrades to the power core and corresponding energy output to the additional weapons, made any form of jamming inadequate, as no amount of power could mask the new, more powerful engine core.

I know this ones carrying too many weapons, but I got schizo trying to figure out which ones to cut.

 

[Target]

Suprised you guys haven't included a D'Kar varient that uses mainly ion torps instead of e-mines although thats what think the D'Kar should be sice it's a Missle frigate. Good to see you put in a carrier. All races need a carrier.

 

[Morgoth]

Angelus, yes there should be a ship, called the T'Rakk, I expect it's gonna be skrimish level. Fingers crossed the ship I submitted should make it to S & P as well, its a raid level ship which you may like.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Is the T'Rakk the one that was built out of T'Loth wing sections?

Tzarevitch

 

[Voronesh]

Yupp.

And i hope its Raid. With the Ka'Tan there is little need for an extra Skirmish lvl one.....And G'Kariths are very good coices too.

Rothans and T'Loths might need some nice company though.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Yupp.

And i hope its Raid. With the Ka'Tan there is little need for an extra Skirmish lvl one.....And G'Kariths are very good coices too.

Rothans and T'Loths might need some nice company though.

I agree. A competent raid ship would work wonders for the Narn.

Tzarevitch