Narn E-mine Variants

[Burger]

It also makes them easier to ram :lol:

 

[katadder]

katadder,

Did you intend it to reduce ship repair rolls as well? This version of the mine effectively shuts down Damage Control as I read it (whereas the last did not). Is this intentional?

well its a 6 instead of a 5 now. its not as bad as the previous version which stripped your SAs for 2 turns. basically gives them a long range slow loading comms disrupter if they wish it.

 

[Target]

Don't really think the varients are needed.
There needs to be less e-mines rather than more (not getting at the narn).
It's too hard to balance things that ignore traits completely & thats why e-mines are hard to get right.
They either work too well or not well enough.
I actually think the wide burst is way overpowered, 10" diameter with DD, ignoring dodge,interceptors & stealth.

 

[katadder]

compaered to a 6" burst that has AP, TD and ignores all the same? ok maybe you will get more targets but a 6AD e-mine against hull 6 ships with this will get one hit. not exactly overpowered.

 

[Methos5000]

katadder,

Did you intend it to reduce ship repair rolls as well? This version of the mine effectively shuts down Damage Control as I read it (whereas the last did not). Is this intentional?

well its a 6 instead of a 5 now. its not as bad as the previous version which stripped your SAs for 2 turns. basically gives them a long range slow loading comms disrupter if they wish it.

Wouldn't you need to 'roll' a 7? DC checks are 9, average CQ is 4 so with a -2 to CQ you would need to roll a 7 to repair (unless you have exceptional crews or SR) and last I checked a 6 is not an auto success on DC roll ( I believe the rules say 9 or higher but mentions nothing of 6 being automatic success). Maybe I am mistaken, I don't have my PDF books on the PC I am using right now.

 

[Burger]

Correct a roll of 6 is not an auto-pass for CQ checks. So a -2 CQ effectively shuts down self-repair on most CQ4 ships - unless you do All Hands On Deck.

 

[Methos5000]

Correct a roll of 6 is not an auto-pass for CQ checks. So a -2 CQ effectively shuts down self-repair on most CQ4 ships - unless you do All Hands On Deck.

Which you can only do IF you succeed the CQ 8 check to do a SA after you -2 from your roll because of the Comm Disruptor effect.

 

[katadder]

still better than the original ion burst, those removed your current SA and didnt allow you to do one next turn. also if you look ion burst doesnt have AP like e-mines or SAP like abbai comms disruptors so to actually get the effect isnt all that high a chance against hull 6 ships.

 

[Target]

compaered to a 6" burst that has AP, TD and ignores all the same? ok maybe you will get more targets but a 6AD e-mine against hull 6 ships with this will get one hit. not exactly overpowered.

The extra area is huge compared to the normal e-mine (40%). It gets way more targets.
I personaly think e-mine radius needs decreased.
I would like to see a 2" radius, no dodge on the centre but either normal or modified dodge in the blast but it can cause crits. The no crit rule is a little silly. TD weapon that can't crit seems a little too much beyond belief.

 

[CZuschlag]

Just personal thought --- I would expect, on first calculation, that the balance constraint number on the wide burst Emine vs. Standard Emine would be

......Damage * Area.

...... TD * (pi)*3"*3" = 3^3*pi = 27 pi.

The wide burst gives

...... DD * (pi) * 5" * 5" = 2*5^2*pi = 50 pi.

I think the wide burst is a bit overmuch.

-------------------

The old Ionic didn't need to hit to strip special actions. Are you saying that the new proposed one does? That does help, if true.

 

[thehod]

Wide burst needs to be single damage as you can do damage on a wide scale vs the smaller emines which already do a nice wide effect.

 

[katadder]

The old Ionic didn't need to hit to strip special actions. Are you saying that the new proposed one does? That does help, if true.

yes just like comms disruptors.
and as to the poster afterwards or anyone else having problems with wide burst - how would single damage do you? what about AP if its single damage, does it need that back?

 

[inq101]

......Damage * Area.

...... TD * (pi)*3"*3" = 3^3*pi = 27 pi.

The wide burst gives

...... DD * (pi) * 5" * 5" = 2*5^2*pi = 50 pi.

I think the wide burst is a bit overmuch.

A little less than that as it looses AP. If it becomes single damage the damage*area becomes 25pi before taking into account the loss of AP.

From a practical point of view when facing a Narn fleet my ships tend to be spread out as much as possible. Generally an e-mine will catch 2 ships due to this spacing, and if only a single ship is in the blast it isn't worth the shot. The wide burst e-mine make it easier to catch 2 ships while still leaving it unlikely to catch 3.

 

[Ripple]

I disagree that it will be difficult to catch three with a wide burst. I would call that expected. Most ships can't fight from beyond range twelve, so have to pull in to attack a tight narn formation, this will force three ships into the danger area. Fighters are virtually unlaunchable.

It's already questionable maneuver if the narn bring a G'Karith.

I also think that the ionic is still an issue. Yes it doesn't remove the current turns SA's... but it does 'strip' the ability to effectively do SA's the following turn. It does significantly cut the ability to DC. This is better than the Abbai ability, as you aren't interceptable or dodgable, and you hit multiple ships in a single turn. Most ships that might carry these have enough dice to expect to hit most hulls under the template... they only need to hit once to get the effect, so the loss of SAP is almost irrelevant.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

if you already keep most ships 6.5" apart for normal narn e-mines a wide burst really is going to find it hard to hit 3, and if its single damage then its hardly a problem.
single damage AP i cant see many people using it.
DD no AP i still cant see many people using it.
but the point is the option is there.

comms disruptors - for a single damage, no AP chance to remove crits every other turn would you waste a dag'kar doing that? maybe be used on a one shot from a g'quan to give it a slight advantage the following turn.

 

[thehod]

You could always do Dag'Kar spam. I have seen it done.

 

[Ripple]

Guess we have to disagree Kat on being able to fight and keep most ships more than 6" apart.

Your essentially removing squadrons from the enemy but not from yourself with that build. With TTT available that is much more of an issue that it was.

Most ships at raid and below cannot effectively fight from the ranges necessary for more than a turn, with the exception of a few missile carriers.

So you end up having to move into tight groups by the time the mines recharge for turn three firing.

Ripple