Muster out with Battle Dress?

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Mustering out with battledress??!!? You are joking??!

So Imperial Marine Sgt walks out to depot with millions of credits of kit. He sells it, retires, end of adventure.

From a MTU point of view, its flak jackets, cloth, etc. Even combat armour stricks me as OTT. Tend to be stingy about weapons as well, small arms fine, but no support weapons.

Egil

How does that compare to owning shares of a ship?. Depending on the ship you could sell your shares for a few million creds and retire.

The objective for such people is the same for every rich person in existence, to make their hoard bigger. Even the rich people who just kick back, relax, and enjoy still take pains to at least maintain their level of wealth.

Plus like I posted earlier, those who retire with BD have essentially had 20+ of background checks and continual observation of their habits, mental state, loyalty, etc.. So allowing such worthy people to retire out is not nearly as ridiculous as a Merchant retiring out as the owner of a multi million credit space ship.

Which isn't ridiculous at all, a good Merchant should retire out at least comfortable rich, or they were never a good merchant.

So I look at it as being someone who had an opportunity come along in their life and were smart enough to see it for what it was and jumped on it, and it was legitimate and paid off. Most people jump onto "Scam wagons", as I like to call them, and end up with not much to show for it when they retire.

So someone who retires with BD in my games has 20+ years of intensive background checks, personal history, many mental evaluations, and signs up to be in the "Eternal Reserves" as I like to call it, has to buy and maintain permits, follow rules of behavior and storage and usage.

So they are just someone who played all of their cards right, at the right times in their career, and it paid off. In their case, with BD.

Ship shares, now there is a subject, once upon a time a small group of travellers tried just the scenerio you suggested, pooled a substantial amount of ship shares, to get 18% off a Fat Traders, and immediately sold the said Fat Trader, to become multi-millionaires. Of course, it didn't work. Ship shares represent all sorts of intangible credit, and when the Fat Trader was sold, the ship share value went back to the mysterious and shadowy patrons who had granted such a boon. The mortgage company took the rest, leaving the travellers flat broke and in a debtors prison. Luckily, the minister of justice needed a little job doing, and the travellers eventually got out. In fact, their job was done so well that half of their ship shares were returned, and so 4 months later the said group jumped from a system near you in a battered, second hand, free trader. Let that be a lesson to all who try to manipulate trav economics.

Egil

 

[Sturn]

I'm going to compare this to modern militaries. I can't see myself getting a benefit of a simple M16A2 rifle when I left service,

No, but no reason you couldn't have picked up a surplus one along the way, and/or the needed parts/pieces of one to convert a civilian model to one. It may not be strictly legal in most countries/states/municipalities, but it can happen.

But then this wouldn't be a mustering out benefit given by your career. This would be something a character could purchase with his starting credits.

 

[DFW]

I had understood that the swiss were all still serving reservist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Switzerland) and that they kept their personal equipment only until the end of that service

The two that I personally know (retired) kept theirs. They were mid-grade officers. They live in the Ticino Canton.

 

[kristof65]

what everybody else does in their own traveller universe is up to them... in mine the marine spec says they get Armour not Battle Dress... seriously if they really wanted a suit badly enough it might be the focus of an adventure but I wouldn't give out as part of the muster out in mine...

I wouldn't either, unless the player AND PC generation rolls made a good case for it, or it happened to come in a future career book as a logical muster out benefit for a career.

The original OP aksed about it because he felt without it as a muster out benefit, that the BD skill was a worthless skill. Although the rules don't list it as a possibility, there is nothing about doing so that is really going to jack up a prepared GM, in fact, I think we've established ways to use it as adventure material, even if the GM is generous. The GM giveth, the GM taketh away. I think we've also established that the BD skill isn't necessarily useless if the PC's don't have BD.

 

[kristof65]

But then this wouldn't be a mustering out benefit given by your career. This would be something a character could purchase with his starting credits.

This depends on how you define mustering out benefits. If you take the strict viewpoint that they are end of service rewards, sure.

But I like to view them as things acquired along the way of a career, much as I've acquired my houses, condos, cars, even my gaming stuff along my career. As I mentioned before, I like to have the players roll for the mustering out benefits for the term at the end of each term. IMO, doing it that way adds story to the benefits and thus the PC's background, even if it's just cash.

The MGT rulebook doesn't really define mustering out either way, so YMMV.

 

[rust]

The two that I personally know (retired) kept theirs. They were mid-grade officers. They live in the Ticino Canton.

This is only possible if they bought the weapons at the end of their ser-
vice, which is allowed by Swiss law.

 

[DFW]

The two that I personally know (retired) kept theirs. They were mid-grade officers. They live in the Ticino Canton.

This is only possible if they bought the weapons at the end of their ser-
vice, which is allowed by Swiss law.

That would explain it.

 

[locarno24]

Note that even then, you've got a rifle - not support weapons or AT weapons, not encrypted communications gear.

Both of which are components of battledress.

It makes the Battle Dress skill seem sort of useless...

Not in the least. You just need to acquire the battledress early on, elsewhere.

"Now it's funny you should mention that - you see, a...gentleman of my acquaintance...has a job that he needs doing.

It involves some recovery work on a fleet supply vessel that came to grief in the outer system, whose cargo contains quite a number of suits of battledress, destined for the planetary security's special forces.

Can't be precise how many - after all, some of them would certainly have been damaged in the att...err...accident...yeah, accident. No, there's no navy recovery ship in range, and it wouldn't be appropriate to wait for some local fleet tender to turn up. Time is of the essence to locate any witn...sorry, survivors. Survivors! Really having one of those days. Anyway - are you in?"

 

[Chuckhazard]

Note that even then, you've got a rifle - not support weapons or AT weapons, not encrypted communications gear.

Both of which are components of battledress.

It makes the Battle Dress skill seem sort of useless...

Not in the least. You just need to acquire the battledress early on, elsewhere.

Well... yes, if I were so inclined I could drop some battle dress in their laps, but I try not to be that nice. Now, if the battledress were prototypes prone to malfunction, or fitted with transponders to bring the navy down hard, or fitted for exactly the wrong race for any player to wear, I might consider it. :twisted:

As for BD skill granting tactical info or skill in a related type of suit, a player asked me about this this very weekend and that's exactly what I told him. /prepared :wink:

 

[Treebore]

What soldier in their right mind would even WANT an M16? Plenty of far better combat grade weapons to get instead.

Heck, I owned a H&K back in the late 1980's, semi auto version, until I sold it right before the new laws went into effect here in the US.

With the recent ruling of the US Supreme Court, I may own one again in a few years, depending on what lower court laws get overturned.

 

[DFW]

Heck, I owned a H&K back in the late 1980's, semi auto version,

H&K what? They make scores of different weapons.

 

[Sturn]

What soldier in their right mind would even WANT an M16? Plenty of far better combat grade weapons to get instead.

Me. Not because it is the best 5.56mm assault rifle, but because it is what I'm familiar with. If I bought a personal assault rifle I would buy the M4 (pretty much a newer, smaller version of the M16) since I already can field strip it with my eyes closed, know what to look for on wear and tear, know how to fix minor problems, know how to shoot it, etc.

 

[locarno24]

Well... yes, if I were so inclined I could drop some battle dress in their laps, but I try not to be that nice. Now, if the battledress were prototypes prone to malfunction, or fitted with transponders to bring the navy down hard, or fitted for exactly the wrong race for any player to wear, I might consider it.

No-one said it has to be 'dropped in their laps' - make them work damn hard for it. But if they want some, are prepared to make the effort to get it, and to live with the consequences if they have to get it...less than legally?...then go with it.

 

[kristof65]

Well... yes, if I were so inclined I could drop some battle dress in their laps, but I try not to be that nice.

No-one said it has to be 'dropped in their laps' - make them work damn hard for it.

This makes me giggle - the people who've played in my RPG campaigns for any length of time over the years get very, very nervous when I "drop something in their laps." That's because they know me well enough to know that I often have a "no such thing as a free lunch" attitude and just about every thing has a hidden dark side. Sometimes, though, I give them something that doesn't have a catch, just to make them nervous - which is a catch in and of itself.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

One way of fitting the "armour" benefit in might be to allocate a value to it, say 2000Cr, if you want to buy combat armour, and don't have enough benefit, take a loan out. Obviously, this would have to meet whatever restrictions are placed on armour in YTU, but might be particularly useful when setting up and equipping a licensed merc unit. I could even see an argument for IntestellarArms or similiar renting out combat armour or battledress (again, subject to legal restrictions). There are some obvious similarities to ship shares in such an arrangement.

Still don't think that this gear will ever be given away or acquired as a benefit, it is just too powerful. Same with the reservist idea, most reservists would be expected to report to their depot on mobilisation where they would collect their kit.

Egil

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Others have already raised this, but surely the running costs of combat armour and battledress would be signicant, esp in a month when they were actually used. Even 1% of cost per month would require 6,000 Cr for TL14 combat armour, and 35,000 cr for TL 14 battledress.

I have always assumed that the running cost for vacc suits were covered by ship monthly maintenance charges.

Egil

 

[rust]

Same with the reservist idea, most reservists would be expected to report to their depot on mobilisation where they would collect their kit.

Besides, I very much doubt that any reservist would have the necessary
means (tools, spare parts, etc.) and skills to keep "his" battle dress ready
for action over any extended period of time, so to store and maintain the
suits at a depot would be far more plausible (and much less of a logistics
nightmare ... "Did we send the E-305/B replacement modules for the infra-
red sensors to those reservists on Farout II and Forgotten IX ?").

 

[justacaveman]

Unless you're making up your own rules, you certainly don't need a tank to take out Battle Dress.

Battle Dress only has a little more protection than Combat Armour. You can easily take it out with a Heavy Machinegun, Antitank Rifle, or Bazooka. If you have some good armour-piercing ammo, you can even take it out with an Autorifle.

While Battle Dress is strictly military and very expensive, it is hardly that powerful an item. A few shots from a Laser Rifle will take one out, and a Gauss Rifle with some DS ammo will kill the poor fool inside who thinks he's indestructible with just a few bursts.

While there are many reasons for not allowing PC's to run around in Battle Dress, it's destructive and protective capabilities are barely an increase over Combat Armour. While you may not allow the PC's to have Combat Armour in YTU, it is part of the standard Mustering Out Benefits and is almost as powerful as Battle Dress.

 

[DFW]

You can still run over a guy in BD who is running around an urban environment. However, BD was designed to be used with manportable high energy weapons. I'd rather have combat armour if using a ACR or laser rifle.

 

[locarno24]

You can easily take it out with a Heavy Machinegun, Antitank Rifle, or Bazooka.

To be fair, the same is true with a lot of light vehicles....