Monsters of Legend 2

[DamonJynx]

Cool!

 

[Prime_Evil]

Nice work, although it's going to take a while to get M.C. Hammer out of my head.

A few general thoughts....

You describe the Hammer Anarchon as being sixteen feet in height, but Legend generally uses the metric system rather than the imperial - maybe this should be five meters instead?

I'd be tempted to change the number of rounds between uses of the hammer anarchon to make it a function of the creature's POW rather than a random interval - I'd probably go for once every POW / 4 turns (rounded down).

I'd also be concerned that the hammer anarchon has a bit of a glass jaw - it's depicted as a melee combatant, but it's main defence seems to be its high Evade skill. It's armour isn't tough enough to handle a few rounds against an experienced party and its Strike Rank isn't high enough to give it a chance to use its special ability before the party starts carving it down to size. It really needs at least one decent defensive ability to help it survive a round or two of combat.

Finally, I'd be careful about terms that imply the existence of absolute moral values such as "forces of Good" and "realms of Evil" as Legend doesn't have an alignment system. Furthermore, one of the hallmarks of the d100 games throughout their history has been a mistrust of dualism. Generally, d100 games prefer to present the views of both perspectives and let the players decide which one is right and which one is wrong - labelling one as Good and one as Evil is forcing an value judgement on the reader. Elric offers a way around this in the way it treats Law and Chaos as having both desirable and undesirable qualities. Given the nature of the d20 source material, I'm not sure if you'd get away with that here.

 

[The Wolf]

Thanks Prime_Evil. I've got to go through the placeholder descriptive text, since a lot of it comes directly from the source book. I would have preferred MoL 2 to be about more generic monsters myself - since a lot of this seems to be Good/Evil focussed and I'm not sure (as you said) that concept works at all in the scope of d100/Legend games (unless we're talking Warhammer of course).

I might be able to generate a sidebar which explains the way good/evil appear in the book's writeup. I suppose I could use Light/Darkness perhaps. As you said, it is a tricky thing considering the source material I'm having to work from.

The powers are literally direct conversions from the d20. I like the Pow / 4 (rounded down) method though - that's something I'll incorporate into things right now.

The armour I can sort out, the Strike Rank came directly from the creature's stats. I am wondering if converting directly from d20 to Legend in this regard might be a little bit problematic.

Strike Rank now +17 and armour has been increased to 6.

 

[Tias]

What's with the name? Anarchon means, roughly put "Without leader" or "anti-leader". It's where the words "anarchy" and "anarchism" come from, for instance. Are they hard to control or what?

I just made a "tribute monster" to mess with my players, the Swamp Horror! http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=56010 - It's a tribute to Moonstone, as noted. Feel free to use it.

 

[The Wolf]

I saw it, I'm a big fan of Moonstone

As for the name, this is from the d20 document I'm working from so I can't ask the original authors where they got it from - sorry.

 

[Da Boss]

I must admit I don't like Alignment systems and prefer for instance Elric's Alligience system which your deeds give you points that show your leanings to one or more of the powers - in that case - Law, Chaos or Balance - none of which are intrinsically good or evil.

 

[Prime_Evil]

Thanks Prime_Evil. I've got to go through the placeholder descriptive text, since a lot of it comes directly from the source book. I would have preferred MoL 2 to be about more generic monsters myself - since a lot of this seems to be Good/Evil focussed and I'm not sure (as you said) that concept works at all in the scope of d100/Legend games (unless we're talking Warhammer of course).

I suppose that somebody has to tackle the way that Good and Evil work in the main Legend product line at some point - a clear distinction between competing moral alternatives is important to High Fantasy in the tradition of Tolkien and his imitators, but not to other forms of fantasy (such as Swords and Sorcery or Dark Fantasy, which often adopt a situational rather than absolute system of ethics).

I might be able to generate a sidebar which explains the way good/evil appear in the book's writeup. I suppose I could use Light/Darkness perhaps. As you said, it is a tricky thing considering the source material I'm having to work from.

One approach might be to use terms like Good and Evil, but acknowledge that these terms are applied by human society to extraplanar creatures whose motivations are ultimately inhuman. Creatures such as the Hammer Anarchon might seem to be "good" because their motivations often coincide with those of humans, but ultimately they are alien beings whose true nature is inscrutable - for example, if they decide that you aren't committed enough to the cause of "Goodness", they are just as likely to turn on you as pursue the forces of Evil!

I would emphasize that although Good represents order and stability, it can also represent inflexibility, intolerance, and a judgmental attitude towards others. It gives rise to saints and healers and those who help the poor, but also gives rise to fanatics and inquisitors and witch finders. This is close to the Warhammer approach, where the forces of "good" are sometimes benevolent and sometimes as bad as the evil that they fight. This approach requires you to make Good seem sympathetic at times while acknowledging its dark side at other times.

Another thing worth noting is that in many High Fantasy settings, the concept of goodness also is closely aligned with the social order - champions of goodness typically hold positions of power and authority and the lower classes fade into the background. The heroes of High Fantasy tend to hang out with the rich and powerful once their own virtue is recognised, often rising above their own humble origins. I would emphasize the way that the concept of Good tends to support the established feudal social order, with all of its institutionalised injustices and imperfections. Those who hold positions of power often teach that peasants must accept their lot as it was ordained for them by the powers of Light who represent law and justice. To question the social order is therefore an act of heresy and rebellion against the Powers of Light.

(Here's an adventure idea - imagine a religious leader who summons a Hammer Anarchon to break up an unlawful protest by a group of peasants angry about some petty injustice inflicted by their feudal overlord. The Anarchon regards rebellion against rightful authority is a sin that must be punished and proceeds to make an example of the peasants...and their families...including their children...)

One other thing that you need to consider is why people would willingly follow the cause of Evil (even if that is simply a label that society applies to certain categories of antisocial behaviour). If you look at High Fantasy such as Lord of The Rings, it is difficult to understand why anybody in their right mind would support the cause of the bad guys - Sauron represents a brutal form of totalitarianism with no redeeming features. I would tend to play up the seductive nature of "Evil" to make it a bit more sympathetic. Maybe it offers freedom form society's restrictions? Maybe the forbidden knowledge provided by the forces of darkness lead to a form of enlightenment that lesser mortals fear simply due to their own lack of imagination and ambition? Maybe infernal rebellion is a way to rebel against the strict role that society imposes on those at the bottom of the social order? If good can sometimes represent intolerance and institutionalized injustice, perhaps Evil can represent change, freedom, and self-knowledge. Once again, the trick is to walk the tightrope between making evil seem enticing and acknowledging the selfishness, greed, and envy at it's heart.

Under this approach, evil beings such as Demons and the like are not evil in an absolute sense - they are alien entities who cannot easily be judged by human moral standards. We regard them as "evil" because dealings with them are dangerous and often end in tragedy. But we are imposing our own conceptual framework on beings on entities whose true nature is beyond mortal comprehension.

The powers are literally direct conversions from the d20. I like the Pow / 4 (rounded down) method though - that's something I'll incorporate into things right now.

d100 games rarely use random intervals for special powers in the way that d20 games do. If you look at games like Call of Cthulhu or older editions of Runequest or Stormbringer, the rate at which special abilities can be used is almost always based upon the creature's stats - POW is often used as the catchall attribute for this purpose.

The armour I can sort out, the Strike Rank came directly from the creature's stats. I am wondering if converting directly from d20 to Legend in this regard might be a little bit problematic.

It's OK to convert directly from d20 to Legend, but you may have to tweak the results a bit to ensure that the result is balanced. There's a big difference between the two systems in the way that defenses are handled - in d20, Armor Class abstracts a whole range of defenses, while in d100 systems distinctions between dodging, parrying, and armour are very important

 

[DamonJynx]

...Here's an adventure idea - imagine a religious leader who summons a Hammer Anarchon to break up an unlawful protest by a group of peasants angry about some petty injustice inflicted by their feudal overlord. The Anarchon regards rebellion against rightful authority is a sin that must be punished and proceeds to make an example of the peasants...and their families...including their children...

Until he (the Anarchron) realises that the 'rightful authority' is riddled with evil & injustice and sides with the peasants... like Erekose, in Moorcock's, The Eternal Champion.

With regards to the stats; to cut a swathe through enemy armies I think you need to give him either more CA's, a higher Combat Style or an aura or trait that makes enemies who fail an opposed Persistence vs. Influence (or whatever, I know he hasn't got that skill as written but you could easily substitute his Combat Style in this regard) flee in terror of his Righteous Wrath (feel free to use that as a trait name if you like, if you don't I probably will!) or some combination of all three.

 

[yojimbo]

I saw it, I'm a big fan of Moonstone

As for the name, this is from the d20 document I'm working from so I can't ask the original authors where they got it from - sorry.

The conversions you've posted so far appear to be from Mongoose's 2004 d20 monster book Monster Encyclopedia I: Ravagers of the Realms. The OGL content is available at the Grand OGL wiki here.

 

[Prime_Evil]

Until he (the Anarchron) realises that the 'rightful authority' is riddled with evil & injustice and sides with the peasants... like Erekose, in Moorcock's, The Eternal Champion

That's certainly one possible outcome. One of the perennial arguments amongst gamers is whether the depiction of good and evil in RPGs should be based upon modern sensibilities or ancient / medieval ones. And to the medieval mind, a rejection of rightful authority was a rebellion against God and the entire natural order. If you are viewing things from a modern perspective, the Anarchron may very well side with the peasants. But if you are viewing it from a medieval perspective, the outcome may be very different. In Moorcock's work, Erekosë is a modern man (John Daker) with modern values who can see the inherent injustice in the human crusade against the Eldren. But King Rigenos and Iolanda are blind to the fact that genocide is a crime regardless of who commits it...

There's no doubt that certain aspects of medieval ethical and legal systems seem arbitrary, intolerant, and cruel to modern people. However, this is an indication of how much our own society has changed over the past two centuries. Keep in mind that at the beginning of the 20th century, roughly two-thirds of the human species lived under absolute monarchies, military dictatorships, or totalitarian states of one variety or another. But now the few remaining governments of this nature - such as Kim Jong Un and his ilk - are increasingly seen as anachronisms. This has been a momentous shift in human affairs and has the extension of universal suffrage caused a corresponding shift in our systems of ethics - concepts such as the divine right of rulers, the absolute power of the state over the individual, the subservience of women to their male relatives, and the 'natural' inferiority of certain racial and ethnic minorities have been rejected by most people. And yet these concepts loom large in the medieval mindset as key ethical concepts backed by divine mandate. Some gamers are uncomfortable depicting the unpleasant aspects of past societies and prefer to maintain a modern ethical perspective during play - thus, if they play a paladin or similar figure this character will embody modern notions of virtue rather than medieval ones. However, other gamers worry that such an approach whitewashes the darker side of history and leads to a "Disneyfication" of the past. Historically, D&D leans towards the first approach while Runequest and its mutant offspring lean towards the second - although Runequest typically draws its inspiration from the ancient world rather than the medieval one....

 

[DamonJynx]

After a quick look at the D20 version I would make the following changes;

DEX 3D6+6 giving an average of 17, this increases CA's to 3

IMHO skills should be:

• Hammer combat style 124% = D20 Attack bonus - magic = 17 * 5 = 85 + 39 (STR+DEX).
  
  Resilience = 96%, Evade = 84%, Persistence = 92% (D20 Skills * 5 + Legend base) and so on

 

[Prime_Evil]

After a quick look at the D20 version I would make the following changes;

DEX 3D6+6 giving an average of 17, this increases CA's to 3

IMHO skills should be:

• Hammer combat style 124% = D20 Attack bonus - magic = 17 * 5 = 85 + 39 (STR+DEX).
  
  Resilience = 96%, Evade = 84%, Persistence = 92% (D20 Skills * 5 + Legend base) and so on

Yep...they are sensible changes.

 

[DamonJynx]

Yep...they are sensible changes.

If you wanted to tone those numbers down a bit you could reduce them by subtracting, not only magical enhancements, which is something I didn't do for the saves - Evade (Reflex) Persistence (Will) & Resilience (Fortitude), but also by subtracting the ability modifier and multiplying the result x 5, this is because the 'ability modifier' is already factored into the Legend base scores (sum or multiple of characteristics). In this case, they would reduce by 15-30% points.

Personally, for creatures like this, I prefer them on the higher side... :twisted:

 

[The Wolf]

Higher side is always good

Hammer Anarchon
The figure is that of a man, over 5 meters in height, built broadly and solidly. He wears a loose white tunic fastened with large clasps of black iron, and a band of the same material encircles his head. Held in one hand is a massive, two-headed hammer, and he moves it as if it were a part of his own flesh.

Hammer anarchons are boisterous celestial beings who seem to enjoy battling evil as much for the battle as for the fact evil is being defeated, something which sometimes causes tension with other forces for good on the outer planes. They gleefully hurl themselves into conflict on any plane, often venturing into realms of evil for no reason other than to "smash up some evil beings". If summoned for purposes other than conflict, they are not good at hiding their disappointment. In addition, they have a slightly hedonistic bent, and enjoy good food, drink and music much more than many of their staid counterparts. A hammer anarchon on a mission on the material plane, in humanoid guise, may be slightly side-tracked by a welcoming inn or town fair.

Hammer anarchons are often summoned for missions dealing with large numbers of smaller foes. A group of heroes may ask a hammer anarchon to clear a path for them through an encamped army or aid them in breaking out of a besieged fortress.

Combat Notes
Hammer anarchons rarely have much in the way of complex tactics. They are skilled at sizing up foes and knowing who to hit first, but such decisions are about the extent of their tactical thinking. They will use ranged attacks against foes they cannot easily hit, such as distant mages or flyers, but they prefer to get "up close and personal". They use their hammer's quake ability as often as they can, sending nearby foes tumbling, then follow up with lethal blows against the prone opponents. If badly wounded, they will indulge in a "tactical retreat", but doing so galls them, and they will always return later to "finish the job" if they can. Against non-evil and much weaker foes, they will temper their blows (taking a -10% penalty and trying to stun them, but against evil, they show no mercy.

Hammer Time: Hammer anarchons use a massive hammer. This huge metal weapon is made from black steel, wrapped in dark leather and it roils with chaotic and dangerous energies. It can be thrown with a Combat Action and returns to the thrower’s hand even if it hits or misses. The favourite use for this weapon is to unleash the power inside, using a Combat Action – it produces a devastating quake – see below. If the hammer anarchon is slain then the hammer becomes a mundane Great Hammer. If the hammer and anarchon are separated, he can call it back to his hand using a Combat Action, as long as it remains on the same plane as he is.

Quake: Every POW/4 (rounded down) rounds, the hammer anarchon can channel the energy inside his hammer by smashing it into the ground. This unleashes a short-range, but very powerful shockwave out to 30 meters. The wave vibrations last until the hammer anarchon’s next round Combat Action and all characters within this area of effect must make Difficult Athletics tests or fall over, becoming disorientated and struggling to stand. Any objects and structures in the area take 5D6 points of damage.


Dice Average 1D20 Hit Location AP/HP
STR 5D6+4 22 1-3 Right Leg 6/8
CON 4D6+4 18 4-6 Left Leg 6/8
SIZ 5D6+2 20 7-9 Abdomen 6/9
INT 2D6+3 10 10-12 Chest 6/10
POW 3D6+5 16 13-15 Right Arm 6/7
DEX 3D6+6 17 16-18 Left Arm 6/7
CHA 3D6+3 14 19-20 Head 6/8



Combat Actions 3 Armour: Celestial cloth. No Armour Penalty.
Damage Modifier +1D8
Magic Points 16 Traits: Anarchon Traits.
Movement 8m
Strike Rank +17 Common Skills: Brawn 90%, Evade 84%, Insight 50%, Lore (Celestial Beings) 83%, Perception 80%, Persistence 92%, Resilience 96%, Unarmed 87%
Advanced Skills: Language (All) 89%, Lore (Celestial Magic) 86%, Pact (Celestial Powers) 84%
Magic: Berserk, Channel Strength, Crash of Thunder, Disarm, Fear, True (Great Hammer)

Combat Styles
Quake Hammer (Great Hammer) 124%

Weapons
Type Range Size Reach Damage AP/HP
Great Hammer -- H L 1D10+3+1D8 Stun Location, Sunder 4/10

 

[Tias]

I saw it, I'm a big fan of Moonstone

As for the name, this is from the d20 document I'm working from so I can't ask the original authors where they got it from - sorry.

Oh, no problem. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it's a perversion of Archon - which means "ruler", but historically has been used in some fantasy settings as the lawful/Good counterpart to "demon", a powerful servant of good gods or forces.

On the whole "good/evil thing", keep in mind that a pan-moralistic synthesis is possible. Roughly translated, that different systems of morality can exist side by side, possibly side by side with different pantheons and/or societies.

So the "chaotic evil" god in the eyes of a hierarchical and lawful society, may actually just be a god with a different take on organization, and be seen as a good or even lawful god by his own followers. In fact, the idea so ingrained in fantasy that people willingly follow callous and evil gods (sometimes gods bent on the destruction of their homeworld or the extinction of their race!) always seemed a bit odd to me.

From there, you can add various interpretations of the differing cults among different civilizations or even races! I try to do this in my Legend setting, but it can quickly become a headache

 

[The Wolf]

Yeah. I kind of figured that's where the author(s) got the name from when I did some poking around earlier. On the subject of good/evil, that's exactly the kind of way I have approached it in the book with the little section on the concepts of good/evil and how they fit into Legend (as is) and how good can be just as bad as evil, due to intolerance and inflexible laws.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Prime_Evil]

From a design perspective, I think the most important thing is to develop an implied cosmology that allows individual GMs the maximum degree of freedom to customise things to their own needs. One technique that Runequest to great effect used back in the day was to present multiple incompatible perspectives on how the cosmology works but refuse to single out any one of them as the correct or authoritative answer.

As an aside, I find it interesting that MoL II is giving us creatures with such a high power level - I wonder how many people are playing around with characters capable of taking on such potent opponents.

 

[The Wolf]

Aye Prime_Evil. This is the thing I mentioned to Matthew, when I said I wish we could fill in the gaps between MoL and MoL II. However he seems pretty OK with the power levels for this book and it is certainly a leap up from doing the monsters/NPCs from SGB 1 and 2. Having to work at this power level does provide some dangerous opponents.

 

[RangerDan]

Nice thread, for some reason I had not seen it until today.

Having read up on the Hammer Anarchon, I’m going to throw in a thought on creating creatures with super-human stats (particularly strength or size): beware large dice pools.

I notice the Anarchon has (for exampe) a SIZ of 5d6+2. That gives a solid average of 20, but for GMs who randomly roll the Anarchon, you could end up with one of say SIZ 8 (a beefy halfling) or size 30 (utterly gigantic). I believe it’s much better to go with large modifiers, so have the Anarchon have SIZ 2d6+12 (for example).

This may not be an issue for most people (who use the average stats) but for those who do like to use the randomness as written (often important for summoner-type characters), it’s generally better to avoid dice pools over 4d6 if you want to maintain some verisimilitude of creature. Just my 2c

All the best,

Dan

 

[The Wolf]

Cheers Dan, thanks for joining us!

Black Shuck
This is a big black dog, as dark as midnight. Its eyes gleam with an unnatural green light.

Black shucks are normally dismissed as folklore or peasant tales, but the eerie creatures have been encountered by adventurers in the oddest of places. Physically, they appear to be ordinary dogs such as pitbulls or wolfhounds, but their eyes glow slightly green in the darkness. Black shucks are associated with treasure troves, haunted sights, dungeons and ruins and druidic groves, leading some to believe that they are wardens of such dangerous places. They have been known to hunt down and kill travellers, but the locals tend to think ill of anyone killed by a black shuck. The general sentiment is that the fearsome hounds are beneficent in some fashion and anyone killed by one probably had it coming.

Attempts to capture black shucks are always fruitless, thanks to their ability to pass through shadows. They may sometimes accompany a rural adventurer for a time, but are not true companions and only work towards their own cryptic ends. There are many other stories and tales that surround these enigmatic beasts and a few tell of the hounds leading children to safety, or particularly wicked children to their doom.

Combat Notes
A black shuck prefers to fight single opponents one at a time, using its pass through shadows ability to move between them. If it’s given half a chance it’ll kill one opponent before it moves onto the next one. Overwhelming numbers may force the black shuck to flee; in this case it’ll enter the shadows and vanish from sight.

Pass through shadows: The black shuck can meld into one shadow and enter it to appear in another shadow elsewhere. The beast must have line of sight from entry to destination otherwise it can only enter the shadow to escape from battle. It can only perform this shadowy walk POW/4 (rounded up) times per day. It requires at least one use of this ability to escape from combat, if it has used all of its allotted times then the black shuck must stay and fight, even overwhelming odds or seek to flee in a more conventional manner.

Dark breath: The black shuck can emit a black vaporous mist once per combat round; this mist obscures the sight of creatures caught in the 10 meter cloud. They suffer the effects of blindness for the creature’s POW/4 (rounded up) combat rounds. Blind creatures cannot attack opponents.

Shadow protection: The black shuck’s fur confers armour of sorts on the animal. It cannot be dispelled or bypassed by attacks which normally penetrate armour.

The jaws of a black shuck are nimble and its knowledge of tactics fairly advanced for a so-called animal – it can use the trip and bleed combat manoeuvres with its bite attack.


Dice Average 1D20 Hit Location AP/HP
STR 3D6+5 16 1-2 Right Hind Leg 2/6
CON 3D6+4 15 3-4 Left Hind Leg 2/6
SIZ 3D6+4 15 5-7 Hindquarters 2/7
INT 8 8 8-10 Forequarters 2/8
POW 3D6+2 13 11-13 Right Front Leg 2/5
DEX 3D6+1 12 14-16 Left Front Leg 2/5
17-20 Head 2/6



Combat Actions 2 Armour: Shadow protection. No Armour Penalty.
Damage Modifier +1D4
Magic Points 13 Traits: Night Sight
Movement 11m
Strike Rank +10 Common Skills: Athletics 77%, Evade 54%, Perception 50%, Persistence 46%, Resilience 65%, Stealth 57%
Advanced Skills: Survival 75%, Track 70%

Combat Styles
Jaws of Shadow (Bite) 70%

Weapons
Type Range Size Reach Damage AP/HP
Bite -- M T 1D8+1D4 Bleed, Trip As for Head