Monsters of Legend 2

[warlock1971]

I googled Hellhound yesterday and stumbled across Black Shuck Cool coincidence.

 

[DamonJynx]

As an aside, I find it interesting that MoL II is giving us creatures with such a high power level - I wonder how many people are playing around with characters capable of taking on such potent opponents.

My Elric PC's could probably take one on. But if you threw in a couple of humanoid servitors with capabilities similar to, or slightly less than their own, they would struggle big time.

@Dan, that was a good point re the dice pool. Must remember that with my own stuff!

 

[The Wolf]

I reference to Dan's last comment, the Cat Anachra's amended pool would now be:

Dice Average
STR 2D6+11 18
CON 2D6+9 16
SIZ 2D6+10 17
INT 2D6+5 12
POW 2D6+11 18
DEX 4D6+7 21
CHA 3D6+9 20

I didn't have to change much of it, I think that looks a lot better - so thanks again Dan. I am picking up a lot of useful information regarding supernatural/super-human beings from doing this in terms of stats.

 

[Prime_Evil]

The fact that different dice pools allows you different stat distributions is a feature rather than a bug - it gives creature designers a lot of control over how their creations behave in play.

 

[The Wolf]

It is something I'm bearing in mind when I do my eventual creatures for Legend. I think you'll like what I have planned, well I hope you will.

I'm just fixing the Hammer Anarchon atm.

Dice Average
STR 2D6+15 22
CON 2D6+11 18
SIZ 2D6+13 20
INT 2D6+3 10
POW 3D6+5 16
DEX 3D6+6 17
CHA 3D6+3 14

 

[Prime_Evil]

I wonder if creatures at this power level should also possess one or more Heroic Abilities - with a bit of tweakage, you could give the Hammer Anarchon the Awesome Smash and / or Mighty Blow abilities. And the Defiant Leap ability might suit the Cat Anachra...

 

[The Wolf]

Might be an idea as a GM. Not sure I could get away with it in the book, though I would certainly think about that for anything of that power level I put in myself. The Hammer Anarchon does have his Quake ability though.

Hmmm...

Heroic Abilities for monsters is a good thought though, hang onto that one.

 

[Bifford]

So maybe a "TIP:" box-out somewhere to say that "Beast of this Power Levels may well deserve a Heroic Feat, but this adds some major power to the character so this is at the GMs discretion."

 

[RangerDan]

The fact that different dice pools allows you different stat distributions is a feature rather than a bug - it gives creature designers a lot of control over how their creations behave in play.

I agree completely. I think that large dice pools are very appropriate for certain types of creatures where variance is expected (creatures from the Planes of Chaos, oozes and slimes, wasteland mutants, and so on). But when the creature description includes reference to its great size, I think SIZ 8 should not be rollable . It's the same reason humans are SIZ 2d6+6 and not 3d6 like for other stats.

As for special 'heroic' abilities on monsters, I think they're appropriate for the right critters. Though personally I like to have all relevant monster information on the page, and not have to refer to the main rulebook to remember what Heroic Ability X does. And if you choose for that then whether you call the ability Heroic or Monster Ability or whatever becomes less important .

 

[The Wolf]

Hopefully the amended random die-codes should be better, Dan.

 

[warlock1971]

This is definitely a post that I am keenly following. I like the idea of adding Legendary Abilities to more powerful monsters. I am creating a few demons for a project further down the line and was trying to come up with the best way to make them more powerful.

I noticed the mention of planes in earlier posts, and was curious as to how (if at all) you were going to handle these. Aside from the whole Alignment thing, that I am not a fan of, D&D has a well-documented planar layout, something I haven't seen for Legend. In my own work, I am going with the Demon Realm and the Mortal Realm so far. Will see how that unfolds as I go deeper down the rabbit hole.

 

[The Wolf]

I've got a little bit of an aside about planes of existence, since many meta-physical documents and writeups cover the possibility of other planes. The idea of the inner planes, outer planes, etheric and astral were borrowed from certain mysticism documents by D&D.

I'm not a great fan of their defined cosmology so I'm looking at ways to present the information in the writeups more geared towards: Legend.

 

[warlock1971]

I've got a little bit of an aside about planes of existence, since many meta-physical documents and writeups cover the possibility of other planes. The idea of the inner planes, outer planes, etheric and astral were borrowed from certain mysticism documents by D&D.

I'm not a great fan of their defined cosmology so I'm looking at ways to present the information in the writeups more geared towards: Legend.

Cool, also not a big fan of the D&D set up for Legend. Will be good to see your ideas.

 

[The Wolf]

I can't delve into it too deeply, but to give you an idea - presenting the planes as the skin of an onion is actually a pretty solid concept. With the demon planes (dark planes) right at the core - surrounded by all the other skins. Outer planes on the outer shell, inner middle/part way through.

I've always had the chaos planes flit around the cosmology, inserting themselves randomly all over the place.

 

[Prime_Evil]

The cosmology of D&D is a strange one, combining elements of neoplatonism with classical and Christian influences and imagery drawn from Steve Dikto's trippy run on Doctor Strange back in the late 1960's. Gary Gygax simply threw everything into a big pot and stirred it once to create a planar layout that could support a wide variety of play styles. However, he was extremely well read and there are all kinds of references to different philosophies in his work - Deva, Archons, Daemons as a distinct category from Demons, etc.

The idea of the planes as a layered skin of an onion works, but I'd be tempted to invert your design to incorporate concepts drawn from the neoplatonic philosopher Plotinus and the Orphic mysteries. At the centre of the onion is the original unity that serves as the ultimate first cause of everything - this isn't God in the Judeo-Christian sense as it is not personified and does not care about the fate of its creations at all (being entirely self-sufficient). Think of the One as being like the singularity at the heart of a black hole - it's the point where the normal rules of existence break down. The ineffable unity at the heart of creation is a blind creator, driven by it's own internal generative principle to create entire universes as almost as a side-effect of it's own self-sufficiency. The layers of the onion are emanations created through the blind activities of the One - those closer to the centre are realms dominated by abstract principles and conceptual forms, while as you move outwards these are imprinted onto matter, generating a multitude of alternate universes. Different possible mixtures of matter, energy, and information define the individual layers of the onion. To use a scientific metaphor, at each layer of the onion, the fundamental constants that make up nature are different - some of the resulting universes are hospitable to life, while others are not. The realms of Demons and the like become the outer layer of the onion, where existence fades into non-existence. They are parasitic beings tainted by oblivion who can sustain their own existence only by preying upon the life force contained within mortal souls...

 

[DamonJynx]

Wow...

What did you smoke back in the day? :wink: I thought I was bad.

Personally, a BIG influence on my gaming and reading over the last 30 odd years is Michael Moorcock, I've made no secret of the fact I am a massive EC fan, I like his cosmology, if you'd call it that. It is similar to what Prime_Evil says, yet subtly different. IIRC in the introduction to the 1st Corum novel he espouses an insouciant universe that creates for no other purpose than to create, not giving a whit about its myriad creations, leaving them to their own devices. The major premise of the EC series is obviously the Eternal Struggle between The Lords of Law & Chaos as they battle for supremacy over this multitude of universes (multiverse) with the Cosmic Balance holding them in check with Mankind represented by the Eternal Champion. The internal conflict of the Champion mirrors his own external struggles as well as those of the Higher Realms as he questions morality, love and individual purpose. Regardless of whether you're a fan of the EC series, the nature of the multiverse he proposes suits gaming to a "T" IMO, allowing for the exploration of as many different 'planes' as you could possibly imagine with no need to try and fit them to a cosmology - they exist, that is all that matters. Occasionally magic practitioners can breach the veils separating these universes and at times, they come into conjunction signally a time of change and upheaval where the deeds of the few can impact the lives of the many...

 

[Prime_Evil]

Lol...my proposal was a merely modified version of Wolf's one

It combined his ideas with influences drawn from ancient philosophers such as Plotinus, Porphyry, and Iambilichus. For a bit of background, look at the following articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_(philosophy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus
http://www.kheper.net/topics/worldviews/emanationism.htm
http://www.kheper.net/topics/cosmology/emanation.htm

If nothing else it makes interesting reading. I also recommend C.S. Lewis' boot The Discarded Image which presents the historical background to the medieval worldview in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Discarded...368668628&sr=8-2&keywords=the+discarded+image

I recommend ignoring the first chapter, which is largely about the way that medieval cosmology borrowed from classical sources and dive straight into the fun stuff.

I agree that Moorcock's work is essential reading for anybody interested in the evolution of modern fantasy, although he can be uneven and some of his works are MUCH better than others...

 

[The Wolf]

Hmm. Inverting the idea Prime_Evil. I must admit I do like that, and I am now so tempted to do a small chapter for this monster book on a sample planar cosmology for Legend (damn you )

Seriously though - Having the One Being (a truly alien powerful force) at the centre of the onion (gobstopper) with other planes as layers is nice. I would be tempted to put Law and Chaos into the equation because I adore Moorcock's Eternal Champion series a lot. I would put Law outside of the regular layers and throw Chaos into the mix randomly, so it turns up when you least expect it.

I think it could be a fun little addition to Monsters of Legend 2 and certainly means that I don't get caught out by planar text either.

• Planar Travel Cabinet: A powerful dimension travelling master of magic created this curious device. It appears to be a six foot tall by four foot box, made of dark wood and covered in alchemical and mystical symbols – the box can travel accurately from one plane to the next. It is completely sealed and the control systems inside are a curious mix of magic and gear-driven technology. It is also oddly bigger on the inside than the out. A spell protects the box and the travellers from the odd energies of the planes themselves.

 

[DamonJynx]

• Planar Travel Cabinet: A powerful dimension travelling master of magic created this curious device. It appears to be a six foot tall by four foot box, made of dark wood and covered in alchemical and mystical symbols – the box can travel accurately from one plane to the next. It is completely sealed and the control systems inside are a curious mix of magic and gear-driven technology. It’s also oddly bigger on the inside than the out.

Dr Who has one ... It's called the Tardis

 

[The Wolf]

Not quite Damon, the TARDIS (since I work on the Doctor Who RPG), travels in time and space. This box only shifts dimensions/planes and cannot travel through space/distance.