Monsters by type (Undead)

Cul

Mongoose
I am making a sorcerer/vampire and noticed that it does not say it is immune to critical hits like all other undead in the d20 systems. This struck me as odd because they don't have a constitution score. I began to look in the Conan: AE and could not find where it states that Undead and monsters with no vital organs such as animated objects could not be affected by critical hits, massave damage, coup de gras and Fortitude saves.

The D&D 3.5 game master guid and monster manual describes what "Type" a monster is and lets us (the game masters) know how to handle it in combative situations. I know that Conan is a fast combative game but somethings wrong when you can kill a vampire or abberation in one blow. I understand that some of the monsters can't be hurt by normal weapons but what gives?
I hope you all can give me some insight on this. Or maybe get an official answer to this question.

I would love to see Conan monster manual of some kind soon with all this explained in it.

References: DM guide 3.5 page 26 and 27; Players guide 3.5 page 140 and 153; Monster manual 3.5 page 317 under undead Type.
 
Super-natural creatures in Conan have always been somewhat different to the invulnerable stuff from D&D.

Otherwise Conan would not be able to defeat them with simple steel, he would need all sorts of magic weapons etc., which do not play a big part in REH stories. It is all about an ordinary man with no supernatural aid taking on and defeating these horrible beasties.

Alright Conan is not exactly ordinary, but you know what I mean!
 
Cul said:
I know that Conan is a fast combative game but somethings wrong when you can kill a vampire or abberation in one blow.

Of course, a lot of vampire stories and folklore claim that to kill a vampire one must drive a stake through its heart and/or cut off its head. Obviously, it has critical spots. Most vampire movies have the vampire dying with a single blow - but getting the chance for that one strike is the hard part. House rule it however you like.
 
How would you then handle a Fortitude save if they don't get a bonus? Just use their Class bonus with no modifier. Or would you make it immune to any effect that requiers a saving throw (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)?

I understand that creatures,like those above, Conan has killed easily from time to time. However, Conan could have used Mighty blow or something like that.

It's the saving throw thing that bothers me a little. I don't mind having critical hits on Undead creatures. The saves are a problem. That means anything could affect them.

thank you guys for the quik response.
 
Cul said:
References: DM guide 3.5 page 26 and 27; Players guide 3.5 page 140 and 153; Monster manual 3.5 page 317 under undead Type.

I too noticed this with the undead in Conan, so when I ran my Conan: Throne of Blood tournament game at Dragon*Con, I made the undead legion skeletons not immune to critical hits, but I did make them take 1/2 dmg from edged weapons and fire hurt them a great deal. So I used a variant of the D&D version with the Conan version.... Of course only 1 party really made it to the ancient temple and even then they didn't make it past the demon guarding the crypt...no one ever got the throne or the riches there...

My online game is moving along, but the party hasn't reached Shadizar yet (itching for my boxed set to arrive).

I intend to run Chapter 2 of Conan: Throne of Blood this year at Dragon*Con..... Crom help them all!
 
I've been thinking about these things to, especially in regards to when sneak attack applies. In my game I have so far used the rules from D&D, so for example Undead and Constructs are immune to critical hits, massive damage, sneak attacks, Fort saves etc.

Doesn't say anything about this in Conan that I've seen though, so I guess that means criticals, sneak attacks etc. always apply unless stated otherwise in the creature description (and I haven't seen any creatures that have any such immunities).
Still, I wonder why creatures even have a "Type". Could the intention originally have been that the standard d20 rules be used?
 
Trodax said:
Still, I wonder why creatures even have a "Type". Could the intention originally have been that the standard d20 rules be used?

Or possibly just to help those that want to port material back+forth between games.
 
The entire point of having monster types is that you don't have to reprint the entire set of their abilities (such as undead being immune to ctirical hits) for each monster entry. You simply say that it is an undead and you only have to worry about printing special abilities if they aren't already a part of the type or, sometimes, if they contradict some ability of the type. The Conan RPG did not reprint/alter the monster types so I see no reason not to use the SRD types except where I want to alter it for some specific reason in my game. Personally I consider that to be rather the point of OGL gaming, I don't need each game book to reprint the entire ruleset so long as I have the SRD memorized :wink:

As for the question of what to do if an undead (or construct) ever has to make a Fort save. If you ever for some reason need the Con modifier for a creature with no Con score you use the creature's Cha modifier instead. So your vampire sorcorer uses his Cha mod for his concentration checks instead of his Con mod.

Hope that helps.
 
The entire point of having monster types is that you don't have to reprint the entire set of their abilities (such as undead being immune to ctirical hits) for each monster entry. You simply say that it is an undead and you only have to worry about printing special abilities if they aren't already a part of the type or, sometimes, if they contradict some ability of the type. The Conan RPG did not reprint/alter the monster types so I see no reason not to use the SRD types except where I want to alter it for some specific reason in my game. Personally I consider that to be rather the point of OGL gaming, I don't need each game book to reprint the entire ruleset so long as I have the SRD memorized

Good point.


This is along my line of thinking and also how I have been playing Conan.
 
Argo said:
As for the question of what to do if an undead (or construct) ever has to make a Fort save. If you ever for some reason need the Con modifier for a creature with no Con score you use the creature's Cha modifier instead. So your vampire sorcorer uses his Cha mod for his concentration checks instead of his Con mod.

Except for Fortitude saves...

Undead (and constructs) only add their level based bonus (level / 3) to their Fortitude saves. However, they are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the spell description states otherwise.
 
argo said:
The entire point of having monster types is that you don't have to reprint the entire set of their abilities (such as undead being immune to ctirical hits) for each monster entry. You simply say that it is an undead and you only have to worry about printing special abilities if they aren't already a part of the type or, sometimes, if they contradict some ability of the type. The Conan RPG did not reprint/alter the monster types so I see no reason not to use the SRD types except where I want to alter it for some specific reason in my game. Personally I consider that to be rather the point of OGL gaming, I don't need each game book to reprint the entire ruleset so long as I have the SRD memorized :wink:

Yeah, I agree this is the whole point of the Type entry. This is also how I've used it in my game. What confuses me is that I thought Conan was supposed to be a stand-alone game. Doesn't this mean that everything you need should be in the book, and you shouldn't have to go looking in the SRD for information? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm not all that familiar with the d20/OGL/SRD distinctions. :?

It's a bit strange though, if I were totally new to d20 and picked up the Conan RPG, I would probably just read the Type entry as some sort of flavour text.

Now, maybe the critical hit/Fort save/massive damage isn't that big of a deal, as those Types affected (Undead, Oozes, Plants etc.) are probably not all that common in your average Conan game. But the question could be extended to all other abilities granted by Type as well. For example, do all Monstrous Humanoids have Darkvision?

mthomason said:
Trodax said:
Still, I wonder why creatures even have a "Type". Could the intention originally have been that the standard d20 rules be used?

Or possibly just to help those that want to port material back+forth between games.

Yes, but if Type doesn't confer the usual abilities in Conan, I can't really see how it would make conversions easier.
So, when importing creatures to Conan from other sources, would those creatures lose their Type abilities? And when exporting creatures from Conan, would the creatures gain abilities based on their Type?
Of course a GM is free to do whatever he likes with this sort of thing, but if the Type entry doesn't follow the standard SRD rules, I don't see much of a point in having it.

My conclusion would be to agree with argo and say that the Types function as they do in the SRD. Dunno if this is the way its supposed to be in Conan though.
 
Why did mongoose even put creature "Types" in the monster section if they did not elaborate or that the special abilities of the "Types" don't function for the monsters. Are they just to add flavour as stated in above posts? I will follow the SRD, but I am just curious and hopefully we can get a explanation from the publishers.

I'm not complaining about this, I'm just curious on how the creatures are handled in Conan. I like the game but it's new and has some bugs in it that are being worked out apparently.

I again hope to hear something official on this.
 
Cul said:
Why did mongoose even put creature "Types" in the monster section if they did not elaborate or that the special abilities of the "Types" don't function for the monsters. Are they just to add flavour as stated in above posts? I will follow the SRD, but I am just curious and hopefully we can get a explanation from the publishers.

I'm not complaining about this, I'm just curious on how the creatures are handled in Conan. I like the game but it's new and has some bugs in it that are being worked out apparently.

I again hope to hear something official on this.

This is mentioned in the Compiled Answers Thread I put together last year. I'm not satisfied with the answer myself, but there is an answer.
 
Thanks MightyCthulhu. Still not much of an answer. I gues it will have to do for now. I hear they are comming out with a monster manual for Conan. I hope it is discusses this issue in it.

MightyCthulhu wrote:

Also I could not find a reference to the meaning of the vampires type (undead.) Creature types in general don't seem to be discussed. Should I reference the 3.5 SRD?

MongoosePaul wrote:
Types aren't really important in Conan, beyond demons in some cases and abominations (Scrolls of Skelos). I left them in to make it easier for those wanting to convert other creatures but they're not required as they are in D&D.
 
MongoosePaul wrote:
Types aren't really important in Conan, beyond demons in some cases and abominations (Scrolls of Skelos). I left them in to make it easier for those wanting to convert other creatures but they're not required as they are in D&D.
_________________

So then are Undead subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Are they affected by fatigue and do they make Fortitude saves? I only wonder this because they have no Constitution score and this would make the most powerful undead a push over because it would force them to make Fort. saves with no modifiers, Someone could destroy one easier than a living character.

This is why I think that having a "Type" for monsters are important. Or at least describe what they can and can't do in the description.

What do you all think about that?
 
rigante said:
Super-natural creatures in Conan have always been somewhat different to the invulnerable stuff from D&D.

Otherwise Conan would not be able to defeat them with simple steel, he would need all sorts of magic weapons etc., which do not play a big part in REH stories. It is all about an ordinary man with no supernatural aid taking on and defeating these horrible beasties.

Alright Conan is not exactly ordinary, but you know what I mean!

I second this notion.

My rule:

If Conan can kill a Lich with plain steel just by hitting him HARD ENOUGH... so can my players. (This is for criticals and sneak attack)

I would however have to make him immune to Massive Damage and Fort.saves. ... otherwise he would have to roll a fortsave with a lot of penalties everytime someone scratched his surface.

/wolf
 
GhostWolf69 Wrote:
I would however have to make him immune to Massive Damage and Fort.saves. ... otherwise he would have to roll a fortsave with a lot of penalties everytime someone scratched his surface.

This is how I have been playing it. Criticals and sneak attacks can harm them but I make them Immune to Massive Damage and any time they need to make a Fort save.

I still want a monster manual or something else like that. Hint, Hint.
 
Back
Top