Mongoose Traveller - Aurora-class Starfury

AKAramis has been having fun at my expense. He supposes that the Starfury is no more than 10 tons displacement. I accept the challenge.

Code:
Smallcraft: Aurora-class Starfury
TL: 9
Skill: Pilot(spacecraft)
Agility: +5

                Volume   Cost(MCr)    Comment
Hull Volume     (10)       1
M-drive-1/2A      1        2          5G, pow req = 0.5 (see notes)
P-plant A         4        8          2/12 pow
Fuel              1        -          (see notes)
Model/3           -        3          Hardened
- Evade/1                  1          r10
- Evade/2                  2          r15
- FC/1                     2          r5
- FC/2                     4          r10
- Auto-rep/1               5          r10
Basic Military    2        2
Triple Turret     1        1
- Twin plasma cannon-10    3          x1+1, pow req = 1.5 (see notes)
- Twin plasma cannon-9     2          x1, pow req = 1 (see notes)
- Open
Cockpit           1        ?

TOTAL COST           MCr  36.1

Grapple: Craft are assumed to have a grapple. So there.

Fuel: One ton of fuel is excessive, so the Afterburner burns it directly when engaged.

M-Drive-1/2A: This is a one-ton M-drive, courtesy of Ken Pick. I've allocated half of its potential to Agility and half to Acceleration.

Afterburner: This is a reaction drive, built into the Starfury M-drive. When used, it burns 0.1 ton of fuel each turn, and doubles the craft's agility or acceleration for that turn.

Plasma weapons: I've postulated two plasma cannons, at relatively low TLs and low power. I honestly don't know what to do with them.

Fire-linked weapons: I decided the way to do this close to Traveller is to list fire-linked weapons as a single gun, when in reality it's a battery of two guns. This allowed me to preserve the single-double-triple turret motif of Traveller and still have a Starfury.

Power: Since I made up the M-drive-Zero and use so-called "low power" plasma weapons, this ship can fire its major weapons all day for all I care. However, firing all four weapons all the time will deplete its batteries in 12 turns.
 
AKAramis said:
No... by standard TL's, the Earth Alliance is TL9. TL 10 has artificial gravity.

Neither Minbari nor Vorlon have matter transporters nor disintigrators, so they're not much above 16.

I'd put season 1-3 EA at 9, Vorlons and shadows at 16, Minbari at 14-15
Narn at 10-11, Centauri at 11.

TL9 for early EA is fine, similarly Narn and Centauri TLs.

The problem for me comes in when I've got Minbari cruisers going head-to-head with Tigresses. It just seems wrong that the Imperials are equals (or better)... and very wrong that Imperial stuff is only one tech level away from the Vorlon.
 
Regarding the grapple, you COULD just say it is part of the standard hull design. Is there any evidence that other ships DON'T have grapples?

Even in Traveller, the idea of an external grapple is not out of bounds. I would just assume it's there at no cost or volume and drive on.
 
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Regarding the grapple, you COULD just say it is part of the standard hull design. Is there any evidence that other ships DON'T have grapples?

Even in Traveller, the idea of an external grapple is not out of bounds. I would just assume it's there at no cost or volume and drive on.

Well, you're a clever fellow, aren't you?

Works for me.
 
Using this fan-produced site:

http://www.b5tech.com/

plus an assumption that 14 mass tons = 1 displacement ton for armored warships (on the average), then I get these sorts of numbers.

Code:
Minbari Nial:              10t?, light armour,     TL 16
Zephyr 109:                10t, very light armour, TL  9
Terran SA-26 Starfury:     10t, light armour,      TL 10
Vorlon Lightning Courier:  20t?, unknown armour,   TL 18

Vorlon Light Cruiser:     100kt, unknown armour,   TL 18

Centauri Vorchan Cruiser: 230kt, moderate armour,  TL 12

Terran Hyperion:            1mt, moderate armour,  TL 10
Narn G'Quan Battleship:   1.3mt, light armour,     TL 11
Shadows Battlecrab:         1mt, unknown armour,   TL 18
Vorlon Battleship:          1mt, unknown armour,   TL 18

Terran Nova:                5mt, moderate armour,  TL 10
Centauri Primus Battleship: 3mt, light armour,     TL 12
Minbari Sharlin Battleship: 3mt, moderate armour,  TL 16
Terran Nova:                5mt, moderate armour,  TL 10
 
AKAramis said:
No... by standard TL's, the Earth Alliance is TL9. TL 10 has artificial gravity.

Neither Minbari nor Vorlon have matter transporters nor disintigrators, so they're not much above 16.

I'd put season 1-3 EA at 9, Vorlons and shadows at 16, Minbari at 14-15
Narn at 10-11, Centauri at 11.

Shadows seem to be able to travel indiviudally through hyperspace/ subspace etc rather than matter transport - or at least step sideways into it? Volron ships are able to act on their own - presume like a AI?

Narns don't have artificial gravity yet either IIRC, Can Traveller do the Shadow Phasing - that is a pretty useful ability :)

Centauri have partial control over gravity - Narn are about even with the EA - does the TL's break down into subsections to cover partial advances - ie the Narn have some Centauri tech but not all.

Vree are very advanced in terms of Gravity control I think - flying saucers zipping in all directions................. :)
 
Well, the most important aspects of Tech Level are weapons and drives.

All B5 HS drives are different from Traveller JDrives. They are big, open a portal, and then you use your MD in hyperspace.

So the SHadow drives as TL16 analogues is no issue. It's an alternate tech. Rest of the drives are fairly compatible.

So, we look at weapons.
Earthforce uses PA's, Lasers, and missiles.
Narn add plasma weapons.
Centauri have better versions of the above. Plus apparently better armor (TL10?)
Minbari have significantly better versions, but are still in range, but also have much better armor than earthforce ships. (Hence TL14)
Vorlon and Shadows have even better armor still (the implied progression is TL16 should have 10av per 5% armor...)

And then we look at other traveller versions for EM Masking: yes, it's TL 15... heck, it's TL12 IIRC. So they are able to spoof against just about everything lower tech. Plus they have military TTL15 EMM which should dust military TL9-12 sensors detections, and Military TL15 Sensors which include TL15 Jammers... it fits nicely.

And then, we move on to gravititics.
Narn and Centauri have artificial gravity, but not the full gravity drives that the Minbari have (according to both B5W and CE's TBP RPG). So, TL 9 is pregravitic. That puts the Earthforce at TL9.

The artificial gravity of the Narn looks to be 1G compensation only... hence TL10. The Centauri appear to have 2-3 G's. That's TL 11-12. See FF&S.

Now, the Minbari, Shadows, Vorlons, and Vree could be using an alternate drive technology, even at TL15; They fly by bending their courses with artificial gravity wells. They appear to only compensate a handful of G's, based upon relative performance, but can turn on a dime; creating an external point-source gravity well could be balanced to match centripetal and centrifugal forces to result in net pulls under 6G but some spectacular turns... and 6G is TL15 compensation limit.
 
AKAramis said:
Well, the most important aspects of Tech Level are weapons and drives.

All B5 HS drives are different from Traveller JDrives. They are big, open a portal, and then you use your MD in hyperspace.

Which is why IMO it would be a better idea to present the alternate technologies in the Traveller corebook and not in the settings books, because then you can use the corebook for any SF setting and it makes it a lot more adaptable.
 
All very interesting :) you seem to have it all sorted

Guess the Narn Energy mines are sort of big Nukes? the Shadow's can collapse jump points......?

Some races seem to have the tractor beams -def Minbari not sure about the others - EA have to compensate with hooks.

Drakh are sort of Minbari level or maybe slightly below

Abbai have shields and partial mastery of gravity. :)
 
Da Boss said:
All very interesting :) you seem to have it all sorted

Just the benefits of modular design. If you need a different sort of drive, or weapon, or sensor, or whatnot, build out a table for it and slap it in.

Maybe the Jump drive can simply "become" the subspace drive (as FFS calls it), which in B5 is the Hyperspace drive.

In other words, design a ship with a jump drive here, and allocate fuel space for it. Over there the whole thing (drive + fuel) becomes the subspace drive.

The benefit is that all of our Traveller ships are now B5 compatible. Tiny grav fighters, Traders, Azhanti High Lightning Cruisers, Nolikian Battleriders, Tigress Dreadnoughts, everyone.

The other benefit is that the B5 ships -- and alien species -- are now all Traveller compatible. If I want the Centauri to replace the Zhodani, I can do that with no fuss, and now the Imperium has Vorchan cruisers to worry about.

Probably won't work, but it's worth thinking about.
 
Da Boss said:
Guess the Narn Energy mines are sort of big Nukes? the Shadow's can collapse jump points......?

Some races seem to have the tractor beams -def Minbari not sure about the others - EA have to compensate with hooks.

Drakh are sort of Minbari level or maybe slightly below

Abbai have shields and partial mastery of gravity. :)

If Narn energy mines are relatively compact, they could be a fusion-nuke torpedo or similar. If the mines are big and bulky, it's possible they've got some very specific high-tech knowledge in that area alone, say as an antimatter bomb. Anyway, as long as we can model it, we're golden.

Collapsing jump points sounds like the B5 version of jump damper technology to me. High tech and nasty.

Minbari with tractors could put them at TL17-ish. AKAramis?

Abbai shields... I think that means they'd be TL14 or 15 or higher, with what we call "black globes", which would translate into the B5 world as a sort of energy shield. Mastery of gravity might indicate tractors and pressors, or worse. Are Abbai very high tech, because that's the impression I'm getting here.
 
Da Boss said:
Vree are very advanced in terms of Gravity control I think - flying saucers zipping in all directions................. :)

That sounds like an Inertialess drive. MHG (the "advanced" shipbuilding rules) will need a table for that.
 
So, how "big" are B5's Hyperspace drives? Don't some fighters have them (or is that reserved for very high tech small ships)? Do they shrink drastically with technological change?
 
pasuuli said:
Da Boss said:
Guess the Narn Energy mines are sort of big Nukes? the Shadow's can collapse jump points......?

Some races seem to have the tractor beams -def Minbari not sure about the others - EA have to compensate with hooks.

Drakh are sort of Minbari level or maybe slightly below

Abbai have shields and partial mastery of gravity. :)

If Narn energy mines are relatively compact, they could be a fusion-nuke torpedo or similar. If the mines are big and bulky, it's possible they've got some very specific high-tech knowledge in that area alone, say as an antimatter bomb. Anyway, as long as we can model it, we're golden.

Collapsing jump points sounds like the B5 version of jump damper technology to me. High tech and nasty.

Minbari with tractors could put them at TL17-ish. AKAramis?

Abbai shields... I think that means they'd be TL14 or 15 or higher, with what we call "black globes", which would translate into the B5 world as a sort of energy shield. Mastery of gravity might indicate tractors and pressors, or worse. Are Abbai very high tech, because that's the impression I'm getting here.

Hmm Abbai - not sure - others know more than me - there ships are NEVER in the show - AOG did stuff on them and Mongoose has also - not always the same:

in Mongoose - they are quite high tech but focus more tech on defensive systems than offensive - they have "situational gravetic shields but these are "complex and dificult to use" One of the Higher Tech races - equal (at least ?) to the Centauri but not the "drive to conquer"?

the Shadows collapse jump points as you go through from range - bye bye ship
 
pasuuli said:
So, how "big" are B5's Hyperspace drives? Don't some fighters have them (or is that reserved for very high tech small ships)? Do they shrink drastically with technological change?

I think only Shadow fighters have them - but anyone can enter hyperspace through a Gate. - B5 Ships are big - I think the White stars are as big as a present day aircraft carrier and it is a super fast , super maneuvable strike ship - they do take time to charge hence jump gates. Does Traveller do them because they are big thing in B5. Also you can get lost in hyperspace.............unless you are a Shadow :)
 
Da Boss said:
All very interesting :) you seem to have it all sorted

Guess the Narn Energy mines are sort of big Nukes? the Shadow's can collapse jump points......?

Some races seem to have the tractor beams -def Minbari not sure about the others - EA have to compensate with hooks.

Drakh are sort of Minbari level or maybe slightly below

Abbai have shields and partial mastery of gravity. :)

HG says repulsors are TL10. Somewhere in CT was an article saying tractor beams wer 2 TL higher, but I don't recall where, and am not certain if it was official.
 
pasuuli said:
Lorcan Nagle said:
Valarian said:
There are no missiles on the Aurora, the StarFuries with missiles are the Badgers and Thunderbolts (twin cockpit jobs).

As a slight nitpick, Auroras are shown using missiles in Thirdspace, so there's some evidence to support mission-specific missile loads.

Hmmm, perhaps some of these ships replace the grapple with a missile launcher.

They were B5's own Starfuries, and it's only seen in this one scene (though it's in the Season 5 opening credits too). Given Thirdspace is st between the Shadow War and B5/Earth Civil War, it could be an experimental upgrade B5 tried to increase the firepower of their starfuries in anticipation of fighting Clark loyalists.

Best way to handle it would be a variant that either removes stuff like the grapple (which we only see once or twice in the show anyway), or reduce engine power to represent the increased mass of the missiles slowing the ship down.
 
Da Boss said:
pasuuli said:
So, how "big" are B5's Hyperspace drives? Don't some fighters have them (or is that reserved for very high tech small ships)? Do they shrink drastically with technological change?

I think only Shadow fighters have them - but anyone can enter hyperspace through a Gate. - B5 Ships are big - I think the White stars are as big as a present day aircraft carrier and it is a super fast , super maneuvable strike ship - they do take time to charge hence jump gates. Does Traveller do them because they are big thing in B5. Also you can get lost in hyperspace.............unless you are a Shadow :)

the always useful http://merzo.net/ has size comparisons for most B5 ships. They tower over Trek ones by an amazing margin!
 
Lorcan Nagle said:
pasuuli said:
Lorcan Nagle said:
As a slight nitpick, Auroras are shown using missiles in Thirdspace, so there's some evidence to support mission-specific missile loads.

Hmmm, perhaps some of these ships replace the grapple with a missile launcher.

They were B5's own Starfuries, and it's only seen in this one scene (though it's in the Season 5 opening credits too). Given Thirdspace is st between the Shadow War and B5/Earth Civil War, it could be an experimental upgrade B5 tried to increase the firepower of their starfuries in anticipation of fighting Clark loyalists.

Best way to handle it would be a variant that either removes stuff like the grapple (which we only see once or twice in the show anyway), or reduce engine power to represent the increased mass of the missiles slowing the ship down.

Don't the star fury's use the grapple in the Thirdspace to drag the Artefact out of hyperspace?
 
Lorcan Nagle said:
Da Boss said:
pasuuli said:
So, how "big" are B5's Hyperspace drives? Don't some fighters have them (or is that reserved for very high tech small ships)? Do they shrink drastically with technological change?

I think only Shadow fighters have them - but anyone can enter hyperspace through a Gate. - B5 Ships are big - I think the White stars are as big as a present day aircraft carrier and it is a super fast , super maneuvable strike ship - they do take time to charge hence jump gates. Does Traveller do them because they are big thing in B5. Also you can get lost in hyperspace.............unless you are a Shadow :)

the always useful http://merzo.net/ has size comparisons for most B5 ships. They tower over Trek ones by an amazing margin!

Thats the name of the site I was trying to remember - must bookmark it - its great :)
 
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