Minor Niggles that Should be Changed in V2
- Thread starter Locutus9956
- Start date
Reaverman said:
the thing people forget about stealth is that it probably is all or nothing anyway. We have people demanding realism from the show, which means no-one can target the Minbari at all, then they demand balance, and complain that stealth is too hard. Personally, I hate stealth with a vengeance, I seriusly do, but it's a mechanism like anything else in the game. people who want Balance, play like versus like fleets, ea v ea. War is not balanced, and a good comander with a bit of luck can overcome the more difficult odds. I got smashed by Reavers Vorlons the other week, some poor choices by me, a howler by him (moved all fighters into e-mine range, nicely lined up!!) but that was it, Vorlons should beat Narn, unless I come up with a blinding tactic, and a whole pot of luck! it's about the battle, not just winning. some people on here seem far to interested in winning, with fleets that gain uberpowers. I'm sure if a lot of people had their way, the EA would be unbeatable. you can't have it both ways, you want balance, or you want show realism.
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Reaverman said:
No other race was stupid enough to take on the Minbari in the show, though... besides, the stealth system has been in place before the Minbari and Humans ever met (it was there in "In the Beginning"). So, it must have had an effect on those races the MInbari already knew about, or there would have been no point in having it at all.
we have no evidence to suggest that the Nanr or centarui or indeed league could, or couldn't target Minbari ships, I suppose it was assumed as the EA bought stuff from the Narn, who bought stuff from the league or nicked it from the centauri. that the stealth was effective against everyone, which does make you wonder why they didn't put stealth systems on a whitestar. .
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
hiffano said:
Not quite right. In season 5, engaging the stealth system enabled Ranger Lennier to dock to a Centauri vessel without being noticed, and since the Centauri are pretty much advanced technologically, it makes sense that "lesser" races are being effected by the stealth system as well!
Indeed - we're a bit stuck with evidence from the show, since very few people ever engage Minbari warships aside from the EA as shown in flashbacks and in ItB. As Londo pointed out, even at the hight of their Republic, even the Centauri were never that stupid.
We do see Shadow and Vorlon ships ignore Minbari stealth quite happily during the larger shadow war engagements (but also note that the Minbari ships are never shown being destroyed, only damaged IIRC).
I don't think the Whitestar is ever stated as having minbari stealth technology in the show or otherwise? But then they dodged most anything that was shot at them, rather than hiding from it.
We do see Shadow and Vorlon ships ignore Minbari stealth quite happily during the larger shadow war engagements (but also note that the Minbari ships are never shown being destroyed, only damaged IIRC).
I don't think the Whitestar is ever stated as having minbari stealth technology in the show or otherwise? But then they dodged most anything that was shot at them, rather than hiding from it.
I have a theory on thathiffano said:
The White Star was a combination of Vorlon and Minbari technology. The Vorlons only interest was in creating a ship that can fight the Shadows, who (in the show) have no problems breaking Minbari stealth. Therefore putting stealth systems on it was pointless. Furthermore, giving it stealth would have made it a far too effective weapon to fight the other races, something that would go against Vorlon mindset. So when the Minbari tried to put their stealth systems onto it, the Vorlons made it impossible somehow.
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Alexb83 said:
There was at least 1 Minbari ship destroyed by a salvo of, IIRC, 2 shadow ships; can´t recall though if it was at the end of season 3 or in the final battle of the shadow war.
On the WS: I can´t recall hearing about stealth on White Stars. Maybe it was incompatible with the Vorlon tech, maybe it would have been a giveaway at who had built the WS? That it was a MInbari ship was supposed to be a secret at first... most likely, it has not been given stealth abilities out of plot reasons in the show; I can´t imagine JMS not having at least thought about it.
But I do like Burger´s explanation.
Well, the Vorlons did put limits on how large their bio-hull material could be grown, didn't they? (I seem to recall re-reading that somewhere - it stopped anyone recreating larger warships with vorlon hulls). So they could plausibly have made it incompatible with stealth.
But then, it's never really clarified how Minbari stealth works. Is it active or passive? Perhaps the Whitestar lacks the capacity to fit one, or it would interfere with the organic technology. Who knows.
But then, it's never really clarified how Minbari stealth works. Is it active or passive? Perhaps the Whitestar lacks the capacity to fit one, or it would interfere with the organic technology. Who knows.
captainsmirk
Mongoose
It has dodge, adaptive armour and self-repair and you want to give it stealth as well???? :shock:
So now i can't shoot at half the time, when i can shoot at it my fire bounces off its armour or gets repaired, and when i do actually do enough damage in one shot to effect it the damn thing moves out of the way...
Although the B5wars WS did in fact have stealth (well a jammer, but same thing...)
Nick
So now i can't shoot at half the time, when i can shoot at it my fire bounces off its armour or gets repaired, and when i do actually do enough damage in one shot to effect it the damn thing moves out of the way...
Although the B5wars WS did in fact have stealth (well a jammer, but same thing...)
Nick
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Reaverman said:
But on intact ships, you have loads of crew, security and troopers, which would result in a messy close combat. And you would end up with an inferior ship of a lesser race.
Guess that goes both against honour and pride of the Minabri (especially among the warrior caste), while using their superior technology to become virtually immune against their enemies´ firepower would fit their feeling of superiority.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Reaverman said:
Erm.... que? Lenier manages to fly his fighter up in stealthmode (a single fighter not trying to fight, doing nothing but 'run silent' effectively) and manages to dock said fighter to an UNMANNED centauri ship effectively flying on autopilot. His 'control' of the enemy ship extended basically to sticking a probe into the life support system seemingly.
It doesnt strike me in any way as deus ex machina, it is neither illogical nor improbable for the fictional universe in question. Minbari technology is easily good enough to do that and I sincerely doubt a shadow autopilot pod programmed to 'go there, kill some brakiri ships, jump back to base' would be doing intense scans such as might locate a signel stealth fighter trying to be avoided.....
Frankly I dont doubt the Minbari could do exactly what he did to any non first one they choose to (except maybe Drakh).
The thing is though, why would they WANT to?!