Merchant ship bridges

[Arkathan]

The only difference between your bricks and a streamlined ship is that the streamline ship is actually less affected by the weather than the brick. That’s what streamlining does, I’m not sure why you think a streamlined ship with M-1 is going to have more issues with wind and weather than a partially streamlined ship with M-1 but the CRB says the opposite of what your saying “ Partial streamlining allows a ship to skim gas giants and enter Atmosphere codes of 3 or less, acting in the same way as streamlined ships. In other atmospheres, the ship will be ponderous and unresponsive, reliant on its thrusters to keep it aloft. All Pilot checks will be made with DM-2.” You literally have the situation reversed! .

You do you but I’ll be honest the ideal of randomly creating situations that have no bearing on the story just so you can punish your players is very GM vs Players instead of building a story. Have fun don’t bother responding we obviously have very different styles when it comes to GMing

The difference is that sane people do not take bricks into an atmosphere. The argument above has very little to do with any points I have been making.
Yes, we have different styles. You create threads to show off your new atomic hammer and then argue (badly) when anyone partially disagrees with you to show you that not every problem is a nail.
Although, you may be able to stuff more than just that measly four tons of cargo in, since once people find out you are flying a 747 with a Sesna cockpit, you won't need as many medium staterooms. Turn them to cargo or split between cargo and low berths, because only desperate people will fly PlanetSide to PlanetSide on that thing.

 

[swordtart]

Essentially, tonnage isn't that relevant, compared to halving the cost of the bridge.

You keep saying this, am I missing something? How does taking the smaller bridge option halve the cost of the bridge?

 

[Condottiere]

It is possible to install a smaller bridge than a ship should normally have. This is usually done to save space or money.

A ship can have a bridge one size smaller than the Bridges table indicates, halving the cost of the bridge. For example, a 100-ton scout could be built with a six ton bridge.

 

[tytalan]

I don’t do gotcha moments in my game if the weather is dangerous I tell my players before they decide to land unless something else is a factor. I expect every starport class C and above is well aware of the weather and will advise or even forbid ships from landing in extreme weather. I also would expect any merchant to follow these warning as a matter of course. The ideal that a ship is going to magically encounter extreme weather without the port having advance notice is ludicrous. Even the afford mentioned microburst do not happen without certain weather conditions being in effect in this case an extreme thunderstorm.

 

[tytalan]

Here’s something to think about. A military bridge is normally quite a bit larger than a civilian bridge. My base thought was the small bridge option fits this fact.

 

[Arkathan]

I don’t do gotcha moments in my game if the weather is dangerous I tell my players before they decide to land unless something else is a factor. I expect every starport class C and above is well aware of the weather and will advise or even forbid ships from landing in extreme weather. I also would expect any merchant to follow these warning as a matter of course. The ideal that a ship is going to magically encounter extreme weather without the port having advance notice is ludicrous. Even the afford mentioned microburst do not happen without certain weather conditions being in effect in this case an extreme thunderstorm.

Random events are not gotcha moments. Transit is boring. A chance for mishaps ensures the players want skills in ship operations. They always have a chance to chain skill rolls to avoid issues. As of yet, they have not encountered a microburst, and they were warned of two approaching hurricane analogs the two times they encountered those, over the last five years. So do not conflate being a monster with pointing out that small bridges on atmospheric ships are not worth the extra four tons you get for them.

Microbursts are JUST ONE example, not the end all and be all of Small Bridges are only sometimes a good idea argument. Chicago has tall buildings with lined up alleys on Lake Michigan. When it is icy, and the wind momentarily turns JUST the wrong way as you cross an alley, the winds get funneled and amplified and can blow you right out into traffic. Little advanced warning, and if you have a small bridge, in a larger scale event, you have a -1 to receive the warning that the port may or may not be able to give you.

 

[tytalan]

Random events are not gotcha moments. Transit is boring. A chance for mishaps ensures the players want skills in ship operations. They always have a chance to chain skill rolls to avoid issues. As of yet, they have not encountered a microburst, and they were warned of two approaching hurricane analogs the two times they encountered those, over the last five years. So do not conflate being a monster with pointing out that small bridges on atmospheric ships are not worth the extra four tons you get for them.

If they don’t know the weather or other factors are there then it is by definition a gotcha moment. I guess your starports don’t do ground landing support. But you do you.

 

[tytalan]

I will give that there is one good reason for small traders to have a full size bridge and it’s not gotcha moments. Small merchants are more likely to travel to class D or lower Starports so they would need the extra equipment to compensate for the lack of ground support. That’s a legitimate reason to lower cargo and increase cost. I would expect most larger traders that don’t go to such places would have smaller bridges seeing how they would have full ground support for their landing so no magic bad weather.

 

[Arkathan]

If they don’t know the weather or other factors are there then it is by definition a gotcha moment. I guess your starports don’t do ground landing support. But you do you.

Again, you have a -1 on comms to hear that warning in time because you cheaped out on your bridge. You cannot count on someone else to hold your hand because you impaired yourself.

I will give that there is one good reason for small traders to have a full size bridge and it’s not gotcha moments. Small merchants are more likely to travel to class D or lower Starports so they would need the extra equipment to compensate for the lack of ground support. That’s a legitimate reason to lower cargo and increase cost. I would expect most larger traders that don’t go to such places would have smaller bridges seeing how they would have full ground support for their landing so no magic bad weather.

Exactly. But you cannot rule out random occurrences in the course of day to day traffic, EVEN when it ISN'T the player characters being affected. (And I just told you they haven't been swatted out of the sky and were warned of weather)
Stuff happens. Be prepared. Wait it out... or wear your brown pants.
Not every situation is a nail requiring an atomic hammer.

 

[tytalan]

You literally must really make your players roll to breath even. I’d hate to be at your table.
And your the one hitting your players with the atomic hammer of constant dice rolls over role playing. I’m done with you attacking people that have a different of opinion try learning to discuss things rationally instead of insulting and attacking.

I’m into role playing not roll playing.

 

[Arkathan]

Obviously you do not know what an atomic hammer is.

 

[swordtart]

It is possible to install a smaller bridge than a ship should normally have. This is usually done to save space or money.

A ship can have a bridge one size smaller than the Bridges table indicates, halving the cost of the bridge. For example, a 100-ton scout could be built with a six ton bridge.

Apologies, I must have read those paragraph three times and every time failed to see the obvious. It is not even as if it is subtly worded.

I can't even blame being tired. Sometimes I wonder if I need to reinstall my operating system. It's been running nearly 60 years.

Sorry.

 

[Condottiere]

We all miss stuff.

Suggest sticking to Windows/Ten.

 

[Perkanis83]

Again, you have a -1 on comms to hear that warning in time because you cheaped out on your bridge. You cannot count on someone else to hold your hand because you impaired yourself.

Exactly. But you cannot rule out random occurrences in the course of day to day traffic, EVEN when it ISN'T the player characters being affected. (And I just told you they haven't been swatted out of the sky and were warned of weather)
Stuff happens. Be prepared. Wait it out... or wear your brown pants.
Not every situation is a nail requiring an atomic hammer.

Man I must agree with tytalan here your table would drive me crazy with the amount of rolls you seem to force players to do and yes having them roll to hear a warning is a gotcha moment

 

[Arkathan]

Man I must agree with tytalan here your table would drive me crazy with the amount of rolls you seem to force players to do and yes having them roll to hear a warning is a gotcha moment

And yet we don't roll nearly as much as his hyperbole would indicate. NPC's are subject to the same game mechanics as players, and the negative DMs would discourage them as much as they should most players.
My players are not stupid, and tend to not do stupid things like flying a ship with a small bridge in an atmosphere - and therefore avoid such checks. And yes, when you are in a small bridge, you have a penalty to everything you do, and you are either trying to use the gimped comms and pilot at the same time or pilot and (poor) sensors at the same time. How often do you let players do two things at once without a roll?
Our typical system to system check is astrogation, engineering, pilot check. All done at the same time. First two for the jump, last one to refuel or make/lose time depending on refuel or attempting a rapid transit.

The most "gotcha" they've gone through is chasing a grav van. Opposed grav rolls to keep in sight/catch up. They failed a roll, so an accomplice popped out of an alley. Grav driver check to avoid and the effect used to see if the original bad guys increased their lead/got away.

 

[Perkanis83]

Eeeh tend to skip all three of those after the first session with new players as they slow down play so much better to just let any normal jump just happen same with getting fuel.

 

[Arkathan]

Eeeh tend to skip all three of those after the first session with new players as they slow down play so much better to just let any normal jump just happen same with getting fuel.

My players like rolling dice, are frequently chasing bounties, and I allow the effect of the jump roll to slightly affect the amount of time spent in jump. Really good rolls can shave a day off the transit time. This allowed them to beat a mark (in a slower ship) to a bottleneck and conduct an intercept. So they WANT to make rolls like that. And three players making one roll at the same time does not slow anything down.

 

[rinku]

Eh.

TLDR is that standard designs have standard bridges.

If you have a design where worse command and control isn't a big deal (especially if it's going from highport to highport), go for it.

 

[Arkathan]

Just for full disclosure,

Knarr Class

Leyland Buffalo

Designed both of those years ago as cheap traders. So while I like the small bridge, it isn't always the best idea.

 

[phavoc]

For planets that are more advanced, or have implemented safety rules, a lot of Traveller ships would not be allowed near settlements or even to enter atmosphere due to them being potential safety risks to the planet below. In the case of planets that have severe weather patterns you'd expect any port to waive off ships landing if the conditions were risky to ships, and especially, to the people and ground below.

Thoughtful and well-run safety organizations err on the side of caution - many Traveller ships, such as the debate on squeezing space and costs by implementing a bridge that should not really be present in a starship that lands near habitation, is something you see in games but would not expect to see in reality.

While the rules might offer it, common sense says that you would not / should not do it. Things that can fall from the sky (and have significant mass) are the natural enemies of the people and structures below them. It's a game so people will do as they will. It's just not something you should normally expect to see.