melee damage and STR DM

[jasongee0656]

Folks,
I need some clarification on a rule, which I might have over looked. When it comes to melee/unarmed damage – do I add the STR DM to the weapons damage?

 

[rust]

As I understand it, depending on the weapon you use
either the STR or DEX modifier for the attack roll, and
the Effect of the attack roll as a modifier for the dama-
ge roll.

The damage would therefore be Weapon Damage + Ef-
fect of the Attack Roll.

 

[jasongee0656]

Ok understand...thanks.

 

[locarno24]

Adding the effect to the damage is standard whether in melee or not.

So if you've got a really good DEX, you'll be getting headshots all the time, hence your damage from gunshots will be a point or two higher than someone who doesn't really know what they're doing.

Higher Melee (Brawl) skill will therefore contribute to a better roll, hence a higher effect, hence more damage, as well.

 

[jasongee0656]

Adding the effect to the damage is standard whether in melee or not.

So if you've got a really good DEX, you'll be getting headshots all the time, hence your damage from gunshots will be a point or two higher than someone who doesn't really know what they're doing.

Higher Melee (Brawl) skill will therefore contribute to a better roll, hence a higher effect, hence more damage, as well.

Wow!!! I did not know the DM applied to range combat for damage was well...thanks for mentioning that.

 

[locarno24]

Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage.

Nowhere does it say 'when using a melee weapon'.

As I said; there's no 'location hit' roll as part of the standard attack - adding the level of success is the way Traveller models it - so anyone rolling effect 6+ on a shot is entitled to mutter 'headshottttt....." under their breath.

 

[jasongee0656]

Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage.

Nowhere does it say 'when using a melee weapon'.

As I said; there's no 'location hit' roll as part of the standard attack - adding the level of success is the way Traveller models it - so anyone rolling effect 6+ on a shot is entitled to mutter 'headshottttt....." under their breath.

I want to see if I understand - so you say add the success difference to the damage dealt? So for example: I need a 8+ and I roll a 11. I would add 3 points of damage due to my success?

Thank you.

 

[locarno24]

Yup.

Given that Traveller doesn't inherently give player characters a combat advantage; there's no healing bursts, fate points, legend, whatever - the only advantage they're likely to have over an opponent with similar-ish stats is a point or two of positive DM from skills or stats - for example, having Gun Combat(Slug Rifles)/2 [Professional Soldier] instead of Gun Combat(Slug Rifles)/0 [Thug with an Uzi].

The thing is, that with the way traveller works, a +2 DM is deceptively powerful:

Firstly, it's a massive deal in a 'fair' roll because going from needing an '8' to a '6' increases your chances of success by something like 70%. A 2d6 roll is a lot more biased than a d20.

Secondly, it only gets better in harder situations. When doing something very difficult (i.e. something normally needing a '10' or more) like shooting at someone in decent cover, a +2 DM triples your chances of success.

Thirdly, as noted, a better roll translates to increased damage thanks to 'add your effect', so not only are you going to hit more often, but you then get a bonus to the damage you do as well.

 

[jasongee0656]

The thing is, that with the way traveller works, a +2 DM is deceptively powerful:

Firstly, it's a massive deal in a 'fair' roll because going from needing an '8' to a '6' increases your chances of success by something like 70%. A 2d6 roll is a lot more biased than a d20.

I am getting you now. Thanks!!!

I have played AD&D for over 25+ years now starting with 1st edition, and really could not get into the D20 system (just didn't like it, lost the 80s feel for me). Due to the latter, I branched out and treated myself to the rule book; however, I am still thinking on a 100% scale with 5% increaments, but understand the 2d6 scale, so it will take a while to get converted over.

 

[rust]

Ah, I know that problem all too well.

My "home system" is BRP, which uses a d100, and each
time I play Traveller I have to remind myself that 1d100
and 2d6 are completely different worlds.

 

[locarno24]

Run both Traveller and Dark Heresy, so it's something I'm used to. The speed at which things get difficult with even fairly small modifiers is quite surprising, to the point that where one or two different bonuses stack, success becomes almost a given.

For example, in a ship engagement, someone with Gunner (Turrets)/1, DEX9+, an Accurate weapon mount and a sensor lock on the target pretty much cannot miss at the weapon's normal range - and all of the above is pretty much standard (maybe not the accurate weapon but it's far from impossible).

 

[jasongee0656]

From what I am understanding {+2} to a dice roll is a big deal. If a +2 is a big deal, is there a cap on the value that a GM should allow? Example: if a character has five items that grant a +1 bonus each, the total dice bonus would be +5, so is a +5 bonus really extrem since +2 is a big deal?

Thanks.

 

[rust]

Just take a look at the table on page 49 of the
Traveller core rules, a +5 modifier gives a suc-
cess chance of 97.2 % (with a normal action).

 

[locarno24]

From what I am understanding {+2} to a dice roll is a big deal. If a +2 is a big deal, is there a cap on the value that a GM should allow?

That depends on what 'it' is.

There's nothing wrong with an automatic success in something that is nigh-on impossible to fail.
The rules say you should make someone make a task check:

• when the characters are in danger.
• when the task is especially difficult or hazardous.
• when the characters are under the pressure of time.
• when success or failure is especially important or interesting.

If the player in question is trying to fire some sort of bullet-delivered homing beacon at a car, then if he's got a laser sight (+1), the car is large (+1), he's a trained marksman (+2), in good health with a high DEX (+1), and he's got plenty of time to aim (+1), then he is not going to miss.

This isn't a problem. Especially since making someone make a check for that (and failing) can derail the adventure.

Piloting checks are the same. Assuming a decent DEX (+1), piloting skill (+1), aerofins (+2) and a 'proper' starport (+2), you literally cannot screw up. But you shouldn't be asking them to make a landing roll every single time they arrive at a planet, anyway - only if they're being chased, or there's a storm, or the ship's damaged, or something like that. Otherwise, it's not interesting and it just leads to every thirtieth ship trying to land crashing, which is clearly nonsensical.

The two reservation I'd make are:

First:
Remember that skill 2/3 is professional. Good professional, and more than enough for most players. Skill 4 means world-reknowned level - the sort of competence reserved for snipers, noted professors, Olympic athletes and thousand-dollar-an-hour retainer lawyers.

It's not impossible for a traveller player to get that but it should always be a major focus of the character's history and personality, and other people will know about it*.

Second:
Remember that there's a limit to your ability to multitask. Getting a +1 from a gunsight is fine, but a normal character can't really benefit from expert software in an intelligent weapon, ballistic tracking lenses, and a gunsight together; they're all variations on a 'smart gunsight' and you can only look down one sight at once.

Don't allow people multiple stacked bonuses unless you can understand how someone can benefit from them all simultanously (for example, in the latter case, if the player is in something like battle dress with a tactical computer that can collate all this data and present it properly, fine).







* Including NPCs, not just the players. If you're Gun Combat (Slug Rifles)/4 someone will know who you are, even if your background is something along the lines of "I joined the Imperial Marine Corps, then was transferred to a special ops unit where NOTHING HAPPENED before retiring and joining the party."

 

[SSWarlock]

Ah, I know that problem all too well.

My "home system" is BRP, which uses a d100, and each
time I play Traveller I have to remind myself that 1d100
and 2d6 are completely different worlds.

Same here. I've been playing BRP/RQ for so many years I even went so far as to translate Traveller into a d100 system use RQIII as my template. Thanks to Mongoose, I'm back to the 2d6 system of Traveller. I never got into TravD20 because BRP's skill-based system has ruined me for level-based systems.

 

[SSWarlock]

Adding the effect to the damage is standard whether in melee or not.

So if you've got a really good DEX, you'll be getting headshots all the time, hence your damage from gunshots will be a point or two higher than someone who doesn't really know what they're doing.

Higher Melee (Brawl) skill will therefore contribute to a better roll, hence a higher effect, hence more damage, as well.

I also allow a player to decide which stat (STR or DEX) affects his Brawl skill to reflect the style of unarmed combat the character has knowledge of. The best style is one which allows a character to switch from one to the other at will..assuming his stats make it worth it, of course.

 

[jasongee0656]

I also allow a player to decide which stat (STR or DEX) affects his Brawl skill to reflect the style of unarmed combat the character has knowledge of.

This is a great idea, and it would simulate the different styles as you point out. I am thinking of Boxing = STR and Judo/Karate would be DEX. Something like Kick Boxing could go either way.

thanks for the idea.