Melee attacks and pistols

[arcador]

Currently, if we follow the rules shooting someone with a pistol, who is attacking you in melee, will have +1 to hit due the range (under 25% of max range).

Shouldn't there be some sort of minor penalty at shooting while someone is trying to hit you? In the previous version there was a table with each weapon having a penalty, and the pistol having the smallest one.

Here, the simplification on range is more than welcome, yet in this particular case (melee and pistol) it might seem it's easier to shoot someone with the handgun, melee range, than to hit him with melee.

(this is minor issue - won't change much and could easily go with house rules)

edit - typos

 

[AndrewW]

Currently, if we follow the rules shooting someone with a piston, who is attacking you in melee, will have +1 to hit due the range (under 25% of max range).

A piston would be a makeshift melee weapon and would only have a range if you are throwing it...

 

[-Daniel-]

Currently, if we follow the rules shooting someone with a piston, who is attacking you in melee, will have +1 to hit due the range (under 25% of max range).

Shouldn't there be some sort of minor penalty at shooting while someone is trying to hit you? In the previous version there was a table with each weapon having a penalty, and the pistol having the smallest one.

I assume you mean Pistol. Until someone grapples with the pistol using Traveller, I do not think they should have a negative DM added.

"Melee" attacks happen at 2 meters or less. So the way I see it, if you are 2 meters away from me and closing, and I have a pistol, I should get a +1 to hit you. You would be hard to miss at that range. Now once you grapple me, then I could see a negative DM to hit you as you are now right in my face.

So maybe what makes sense is removing the +1 quarter range bonus once grappled.

 

[Belisknar]

Currently, if we follow the rules shooting someone with a piston, who is attacking you in melee, will have +1 to hit due the range (under 25% of max range).

A piston would be a makeshift melee weapon and would only have a range if you are throwing it...

I'm pretty sure he meant pistol...

I think arcador is talking about using the pistol as a ranged weapon at that range under the short range rule from page 73.

Short Range: If a target lies within one quarter of a weapon’s Range score, the attacker will gain DM+1 to all attack rolls made with it as he will be within the weapon’s Short Range

Under this, only certain pistols will qualify for the +1 modifier under the close combat rules but some still will.

Note arcador it's weapons 'Range Score' not it's 'Maximum Range' that is a very important distinction.

Melee Attacks
When a Traveller is within 2 metres of an enemy, they are said to be locked in close combat. At this very short range, certain rules apply.
•Melee attacks may be made (see page 71).
•Neither the Traveller nor his enemy may attack any other target other than those they are in close combat with.

•Only single-handed ranged weapons, such as pistols, may make ranged attacks against a target in close combat.

•Larger weapons, such as rifles, may only be used as clubs (see page 116).
•If one combatant moves while locked in close combat, his enemy may make an immediate (and ‘free’) attack with DM+2 to the attack roll.

So a pistols such as an autopistol or Revolver (range 10m) would have a bonus to hit when in close combat where as snub/body pistols (range 5m) would not be guaranteed the same bonus (at that point it's up to the referee how close characters are unless you are battlemapping it and measuring it down.)

 

[arcador]

Yes, you got this correctly.

What it seems to be a minor concern for me is that, let's say 2 characters are engaged in melee. Both have Dex DM+1 and skill of 1 for the appropriate weapon. For the sake of this example, let's assume the weapon has at least 10m range, i.e. the 2m will be in the short range.

The melee guy will have net attack bonus to 2, the pistol will have bonus 3.

Of course the melee guy has advantages as having locked his enemy, who can't attack other targets and if attempt to run will receive an attack (of opportunity).

To have better impression imagine this situation from the point of view of a player:

Jack has 2 melee skill in blades, and 1 Dex DM. In heated combat he manges to sneak on his enemy and stabs him with a combat knife. The enemy, while injured, and still alive, shots at Jack with his gun, with additional +1 bonus for short range.

Now, stepping aside from the resolution, - imagine the player: he just took a risky move, taking time to move close to his armed enemy, managed to do all this successfully, even score an attack, but his enemy still has some sort of advantage in the consequential attack. Again, the bonus is very minor, yet it might discourage some players to engage in melee, outside of grapple. It is primarily psychological rather than mechanical effect.

---

All this said, the situation is better than v1. There, someone could attack you with melee and you could, in return, uzi-rapid-fire him with 6 or 8 dice pool attack.

 

[-Daniel-]

arcador, I understand your concern, but I still believe that the player who "took a risky move" should not expect that the combat then would be equal. If they did, then they do not understand the concept of a risky move.

Also you have added an additional element to your "Jack" example. If he did in fact sneak up on the pistol carrying NPC, why isn't that being played out as a , then he should also receive the Initiative bonus and on top of that, I would say maybe even a Boon as well to raise the odds of a higher effect.

Bottom line for me, you move in close to attack someone with a pistol out and ready, you should be risking being on the bad end of that first round of combat.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

At close enough range, a melee fighter should be able to parry an attempt to be shot with a pistol, as the gun wielder attempts to bring the gun to a firing position...

 

[arcador]

This is a good suggestion! I will house-rule it in our games

 

[Condottiere]

The technical term is gun-fu.

 

[FallingPhoenix]

At close enough range, a melee fighter should be able to parry an attempt to be shot with a pistol, as the gun wielder attempts to bring the gun to a firing position...

A note saying this in the book might be really good. The pistol wielder still gets his +1 for close range, but the knife wielder can roll to parry...representing his superhuman reflexes allowing him to knock the bullet aside just as it leaves the barrel...er, I mean, knock the gun aside just as the pistol wielder fires so that the gun misses.