Marathon Cruiser, Over The Top?

[Locutus9956]

Actually I think people often overlook heavy missiles, sure flash have range but have you seen what an Apollo full of heavy missiles can do to a ship.... (and its speed 8 with 12" range then which is more than you might think, CAF or scout and against a target without interceptors thats probably going to be 6 or 7 precise triple damage hits (or are hvy missiles only double damage, I can never remember...)

 

[Voronesh]

I have seen what the Apollo hvy missle barrage can do.

12 damage and 12 crew, no crits.

No they guy cant roll. He did it twice. Both a Sharlin and a Octurion were able to laugh their asses off at the incabable Apollo weapons crew.

No i think Hvy missles are a very dangerous weapon for any missle ship. Hermes can be used en masse, and can use terrain for the approach. 2AD of SAP,TD,P will make anyone careful.

The Crusade era fleet is really lacking compared to the Minbari in the boresight departement. Its hard to get any good ini sink, except retrofitted trader ships and outdated troop ships :S A Crusade era cutter would be very good.

 

[Karhedron]

I am quite partial to heavy missiles on the Warlock. The Warlock is quite a good brawler and also has the ability to AJP close to its victim (erm, target ). I prefer to use the Apollo in the classic fleet support role. At the end of the day, it can fire its entire weapons load from 30" away while most ships will only be able to respond with part of theirs at best.

If your opponent tries to send something hunting for the Apollo that is even better. You have got him reacting to your plan rather than implementing his own.

 

[Destroid]

Yep, Heavies on the Warlock and Flash on the Apollos are the way to go for my 0.02.

As for the Marathon I wouldn't call it overpowered. It has very much the feel of a logical successor to the Hyperion - fast and maneuverable, big boresight laser and decent secondaries. This being offset by it being only slightly more survivable than an SFOS Omega it doesn't make it overpowered to me. That and it still isn't as nasty as a Tertius...

 

[Locutus9956]

Yup I tend to agree, though occasionally an Apollo tooled up with heavies can really lay down some hurt, especially on maps with lots of asteroids and so on...

 

[Skipper]

As the Narn player described by the original post, we were looking at the Marathon compared to its local competion. None of us play Cetnauri so that was not part of the original equation. Its not the Bore sight that makes the Marathon nasty, its the secondary weapons. 15" TL or 12" Beam weapons all around. I'd call that pretty significant secondaries. The Marathon can roll into the middle and dish out a lot of hurt all round. And with 4 interceptors, its going to avoid a lot of the return fire. I'd say it sits pretty good with secondary weapons.

Every ship has a weakness, I'm not sure what the Marathon's is. They carry a nice fighter complement, good closing speed with 2 turns for lining the bore sight up (Front and Aft), nasty (versitile secondaries), flight computer, AJP, and long range turret antifighter weapons. hull 6.

I know a lot of people consider the damage and crew scores low, but they are higher that the Tinashi, close to the primus (flight computer almost evens the crew out), damage is not significantly lower than the G'Quan, and easily matches the Var'Nik (Who lacks the rear arc, nice secondaries, and special traits), Outguns the Avioki significantly all round, matches the storm falcon pretty close damage wise and even out shoots the front arc of it due to its slow-loading trait and range,.........shall I go on.


Granted, the lack of lower level support seems to make up for this a bit, but the Patrol choice Hermes can rock your world from afar with those long ranged missiles as well as playing initiative sinks. It may not be the best battle choice, but its pretty darned close.

Someone here compared it to the G'Varhn. Yes it does not stack up to the G'varhn, but the G'Varhn is a war level choice and should be compared to two Marathons. I have no doubt which is the best choice in that scenario.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and as most opinions go it is biased and not worth a heck of a lot. I'm not trying to rile anyone up, just trying to get my point across.


Good gaming,

Fair Wind and Following Seas

Skipper

,

 

[E Nicely]

^Marathon weakness: low Crew and Damage. And the boresight weaponry.

 

[Voronesh]

Well sure the secondaries ARE long ranged. But 6 Tl shots? The Omega puts out 10ad at 12". The G'Quan has alot more dice, 16ad (Weak and tl mostly cancel each other out, though hull6 is in a world of hurt) and all round, yes it has weaker secondaries.

And saying the Marathon isnt too far behind the G'Quan in damage is severeyl skewed. 40 vs 55. Interceptors help, but its a huge difference. More than 1/3 extra.

And Speed 12 is great, but be careful about being too fast. You tend to overtake enemy ships when you get to close, and then you actually need to turn 180° or contend yourself with the weaker aft beam.

 

[Silvereye]

But even having the aft beam weapon keeps your options available. I'd call it a bonus rather then a disadvantage.

 

[Voronesh]

Yes, I have had 2 Hyps overshoot a target and be reduced from all the front firepower to the aft one. Nearly half. ANd not pretty, since the enemy has just forced you to react instead of act. (Yes my famed speed 2 oct.....)

And simply because you let your own weapon (speed should be mostly beneficial) be turned against you (or rather it will always turn against you, without anyones help, since you cant stop closing and fire the main beam at the same time).

 

[katadder]

with 2 turns its generally not too bad, and if you can come about on one of them too its quite useful as you behind the enemy and most enemy battle level ships or above are not that manouverable.

 

[Locutus9956]

Ok so its got range on its secondaries but big whoop. Its a BATTLE level ship. If you compare it to NARNS then yes of course youre going to outrange them but I shouldnt have to point out that compared to most other fleets its hardly got amazing secondary range (and the firepower isnt all that impressive with those secondaries either).

For that matter a CHRONOS FRIGATE has more TL firepower (and 2 certainly do) the Marathons teeth are very definitively the beams.

Its all well and good to look at the Marathon only compared to the fleets others at your local group play but thats the nature of the PL system, someone will always have a best pick at a given pl but by and large I think it balances out overall quite well now.

With the Narn as an example, yes Id bet on a Marthon in a straight fight against a G'Quan ANY day of the week.

But I'd bet on a Ka'Toc in a fight against an assault Hyperion any day of the week too.

Now try this one (using raid level game as an example here so the points may vary at different levels but thats the way it goes): 4 Ka'Tocs vs a Marathon. Not so clear cut now is it?

Or try the other way around 1 G'Quan vs 4 Assault Hyperions again could go either way tbh (personally Id favour the small swarmy sides in both the above examples but its by no means guarenteed)

Now it IS getting harder to balance out the game with the PL system due to the sheer variety of ships now and perhaps points might well be the way to go in future but for now at least its still fairly well balanced on a fleet level. Except for the Saggitarius of course (till next S&P at least) :lol:

 

[katadder]

i'd put my money on the g'quan versus 4 assault hyperions