Marathon Cruiser, Over The Top?

[kritikalfailure]

The two people I play ACTA with seem to think the Marathon is the best Battle ship in the game, and they think that it's too good for its priority level.

Basically they think a TD Boresighted Beam shouldn't be mounted on a ship with 2 45 degree turns.

My thoughts are as follows:
Yes, it's scary, but given the Crusade Fleet's lack of viable initiative sinks, especially at the skirmish level, it's damn tough to line up a boresighted weapon anyway (especially given the fact that my two main opponents are Narn and Drakh, both of whom have great ships at the Skirmish level).

Secondly, I think the EA fleet list, especially the Crusade era, is one of the toughest fleets to play in a campaign. Lower level engagements play right into the hands of most everyone else (especially Narn and Centauri, damn Ka'Tocs and Darkners). Unless you load up on Hermes (which are basically one battle sinks, they don't live very long), you'll never bring your boresighted weapons to bear.

What do you all think about it?

 

[H]

It is a solid ship, but like any ship it can have it's weaknesses. It also has ships that are as good in certain respects. The forward firepower speed and maneuvreability of the Var'Nic is comparable, although the varnic has a poorer all round fire, the Primus has a 25" forward 6 dice beam, so it can CAF, Minbari have steath and precise, so it's not overpowered, it's just different, it should be a good solid ship choice though

 

[Triggy]

Agree on both of your points with the addition that it isn't as tough as many Battle level ships and doesn't provide as many fighters as many as well.

It is an inflexible ship with potent weaponry whilst being fairly solid. A good knife fighter and OK in a brawl but it's not a jack of all trades and good enemy tactics can corner it on occasion.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

It's absurdly fast for a battle choice. It's faster and more agile than some raid choices and can match some skirmish choices for speed and turns. Totally over the top.

 

[H]

It's absurdly fast for a battle choice. It's faster and more agile than some raid choices and can match some skirmish choices for speed and turns. Totally over the top.

why is it over the top? is the Whitestar over the top being more than twice as fast as Narn raid ships? it's just a ship, like any other, it can die like any other, pump it full of primus battle laser and it will still die!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Does earth have any other ships with a speed that high? Only their small ships are anything like as fast as the Marathon, yet it's a battle choice with almost twice the speed of the Omega, EA's other battle choice.

A battle choice for the Centauri at that speed might be possible with their superior drive technology, but the 8" Primus is at the high end of the speed bracket for battle choices. Why should the Marathon get speed 12"?

 

[Alexb83]

As I've said in another thread, it does seem overblown, for much the same reasons mentioned above. But then perhaps it makes up for the not-so-greatness of the War and Armageddon choices in the EA Crusade list.

And although the fluff indicates that all the ships malfunction on a regular basis, there's nothing in the rules to support it. Might be good if you had to roll for your crew quality every turn, or to see if the ships' AI started arguing with the security officer for example...

 

[H]

the primus is what, a 100 years old, 50 years old? the Marathon is built with modern technology from the EA, Minbari, Vorlon, Narn, Shadow, other league races. Look at the G'Vrahn, a warship with decent speed and 2 45 degree turns, is that broken?
it's just a leap forward in technology using ancient tech, it's still restricted by Boresight, and hasn't thankfully got self repair, GEG, or other modern stuff on.

It also has, I believe only 40 damage, which is less than many older battleships

 

[Voronesh]

The Marathon is perfectly ok.

It doesnt fit in with the rest of the fleet. Hard to support. Crusade era has nothing to go with it. But that is a balancing factor too.

If this thing is supposed to be over the top, pare it up with a primus. Same AD damage, less crits and less damage potential overall. Well there is the usual forwardarced versus boresight.
Secondary batteries are about the same. Feels good i guess.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Only 40 Damage? Primus only has 45. Yet the Marathon is half again as fast as the Primus and twice as agile. It also has a triple damage beam to the Primus' double damage. On no, it's boresighted! With your two 45 degree turns you won't have much problem getting something in your sights. As long as you move in the right order you'll have your pick of most targets to your front. Won't be able to use CAF orders, but that's why the Great Maker gave EA the best scout in the game...

 

[H]

Only 40 Damage? Primus only has 45. Yet the Marathon is half again as fast as the Primus and twice as agile. It also has a triple damage beam to the Primus' double damage. On no, it's boresighted! With your two 45 degree turns you won't have much problem getting something in your sights. As long as you move in the right order you'll have your pick of most targets to your front. Won't be able to use CAF orders, but that's why the Great Maker gave EA the best scout in the game...

ok, yes you are right, whatever you say, I give in, Centauri are bollocks and deserve a huge upgrade, any ship that might offer a different and unique challenge is clearly overpowered, and hell, only 6AD on that primus beam, give it ten.
You know what, Maybe this is the way to go, it's much more satisfying than trying to remain calm and rational. I spit in the eye of my post about trying to get along, I can only read so many times how Centauri are weak and underpowered, and if a ship gets something new and interesting it's clearly broken, screw it all, what a load of whiney feckers.

 

[Invictus]

I think it´s balanced.

Man.Ok it´s faster than most other ships,especially the Omega.But look the Marathon is a new build ship (in 2266) with much more technology than the Omega (especially Alien technology).

And being so fast is balanced by it´s low Crew and Damage Quality.

And there is another weakness -as listed somewhere in this Topic before:

It has only 2 fighter bases.Less than most other ships at this PL.

 

[Pauly_D]

personally i think the TD weapon is great but it is really difficult to get to get against faster opponents, in my last battle i only got the Aft Boresight off in the entire battle, there just arent enough initiative sinks to get a boresight with it as Hyperions/Hermes have hull 5/4 respectively so they get killed too quick, but if you are playing at Battle or War pl level then you get plenty of chances to use it and it is so much more effective then

 

[Target]

Boresight is a huge disavantage compared fwd arc weapon. With fwd arc weapons you can at any time and still pick your target, boresight can only shoot what your opponent lets you shoot.

 

[Pauly_D]

yeah all you need to hope for is that you dont have to face anyone with speed 10 or above (especially if they have beams)

 

[kritikalfailure]

personally i think the TD weapon is great but it is really difficult to get to get against faster opponents, in my last battle i only got the Aft Boresight off in the entire battle, there just arent enough initiative sinks to get a boresight with it as Hyperions/Hermes have hull 5/4 respectively so they get killed too quick, but if you are playing at Battle or War pl level then you get plenty of chances to use it and it is so much more effective then

The first (and only time thus far) that I've used it was in a Recon Run against Vree. The Vree player (who is also our Narn player) knew I was itching to try it out, so naturally took tons of those little Vree scout thingies, a Z'Takk, and two of the Battle level saucers. My force consisted of four Chronos and a Marathon.

Needless to say the only thing I got the beam locked on before I opened a jump point and got the hell out of dodge was a one of the Scout Saucers. I failed my stealth roll and never got to shoot.

Much frustration, but I'm sure it will do better in an even point engagement.

Our group, or at least me, is in general agreement that having stronger low-level ships is preferrable to a fleet list full of stronger high level ships (especially in the case of a Boresighted based Beam fleet). Hence it's no surprise that Narn tend to do much better than Crusade EA.

We're toying around with the idea of a "maximum activation" house rule, whereby the maximum number of ship activations is equal to the points level of the scenario plus one. If you want to load up on low level ships, go ahead, but they will have to be squadroned.

This might help my fleet out (I was ready to quit the campaign after the first 2 battles I fought), along with making the game less paper-rock-scissors.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Eh, I don't know if it's overpowered, but I do know that 2/45 degree turns on a 12" movement is less of an advantage then you might think. It does help you at long range line up those initial boresites, but when you get into knife-fight range it takes you -way- too long to come about and get back into those primary firing arcs. I think anyone that plays drazi can attest to that.

Personally I'd be much more scared if this ship had a 6 or 8 inch movement, and 2 turns then the 12"

 

[Locutus9956]

as has been pointed out several times, high speed doesnt make a ship more maneuverable but in fact give it a BIGGER turning circle.... high speed can be great if a ship is short ranged or has turret arcs etc but the marathon is a boresigth moster, so the speed isnt really an issue.

And Im afraid I have to take Hiffano's side on this one, if theres one thing that gets my goat on these forums its the endless whining there ARE a few ships that could use a change but its nowhere near as bad as people make out. The Centauri list for example I think is fine as it is. Completely, sure not every ship is perfect but SO WHAT!?!?! I honestly dont think some poeple would be happy unless their fleet list was made of ships such that you could pick any combination of ships and still be just as effective against every opponent. And tactics? Who needs em, your ships should be able to just blow all their enemies to pieces without worrying about silly stuff like that.

ps. I exempt from the above rant any and all whining/ranting about the Saggitarius which is quite blatantly the beardiest, cheesiest, most munchkiney ship since the munchkin class cruiser uss beardy-maccheesebeard.....

 

[Greg Smith]

...which is quite blatantly the beardiest, cheesiest, most munchkiney ship since the munchkin class cruiser uss beardy-maccheesebeard.....

LMAO :lol: :lol:

 

[E Nicely]

Agree on both of your points with the addition that it isn't as tough as many Battle level ships and doesn't provide as many fighters as many as well.

It is an inflexible ship with potent weaponry whilst being fairly solid. A good knife fighter and OK in a brawl but it's not a jack of all trades and good enemy tactics can corner it on occasion.

I agree.