Magic of Glorantha...Got Mine!!!

[Rurik]

Actually, this has got me thinking regarding the necessity of integrating cult runes. Perhaps a Yelmalion cannot integrate a fire rune (all attempts just fail). Hmm, must think on this.

 

[Voriof]

I thought God Learner meddling in Myths took repeated heroquesting to actually affect changes. It takes a concerted effort and a lot of quests done 'wrong' to actually change a myth throughout the worlds/planes.

As such one screwed up quest (Yelmalio killing ZZ by accident) is not going to really change anything, it will only result in a failed quest with unknown (and possibly bad) results for the heroquester.

Eventually, yes. But it certainly changes it for you on a rather immediate basis. It also affects how the, er, orthodox myths act for you. This also affects the sorts of magic available to you as well.

Jeff

 

[soltakss]

Sometimes, losing is the point of the myth or the staion in the heroquest. Sometimes, its not possible to continue without losing. If you win, you may not be able to succeed at your overall goal.

Orlanth could not have completed the Lightbringer's Quest if he had not failed in the King of Night's Hall, nor would they have been on the Quest if Chalana Arroy (or is it Erissa? ) had managed to heal the Dead God.

Similarly, Yelmalio would not have gained his "too tough to die while there is light" powers if he'd won at Hill of Gold.

Imagine doing a Christian HeroQuest re-enactment where you manage to avoid Crucifixion. Hooray, you survived! But, you missed the whole point of the sacrifice, atonement, resurrection etc, which is the heart of Christian belief.

The same applies to things like Yelmalio at the Hill of Gold. You might defeat the other questors but you are missing the point of the entire quest.

However, for those not particularly interested in becoming immortal, winning in the individual contests does have its own appeal. It makes you more powerful in many ways, but you miss out on the morality play and move further from Yelmalio's bosom.

 

[soltakss]

I thought God Learner meddling in Myths took repeated heroquesting to actually affect changes. It takes a concerted effort and a lot of quests done 'wrong' to actually change a myth throughout the worlds/planes.

To use the over-used Gloranthan answer: It depends.

Gbaji cursed the trolls and caused the Trollkin Curse with one HeroQuest act. No repeated quests, no experimental forays, just one devastating snicket. Of course, there were repeated quests later on as the trolls tried to undo the Curse, but the original act was a single quest.

In the Third Age, The Red Goddess was born on a single quest. She achieved her Goddess status on a single Quest. Sure, they were reinforced later on, but originated as single quests.

So, it is possible to do it once and have a great effect on the planes/mythologies. It's just hard.

As such one screwed up quest (Yelmalio killing ZZ by accident) is not going to really change anything, it will only result in a failed quest with unknown (and possibly bad) results for the heroquester.

Sure, such a powerful myth is difficult to dislodge, although it is possible.

The oft-quoted example of Mr Raccon shows how heroquesting can have knock-on effects by defeating minor godlings on heroquests.

God Learners using their sight and questing a few hundred times and beating ZZ every time might affect a change, but a solitary heroquester really only need worry about the ramifications on himself of blowing the quest.

If he is a solo initiate, perhaps. What if he is a High Priest of Yelmalio supported by thousands of worshippers? What if he has the support of several temples and the Golden Dragon Emperor? Would that make more of a difference? Of course it would. It would affect all those who supported him. He would be opposed by most of the Zorak Zorani in Glorantha, though.

I also imagine that the importance of the gods in question would matter. It is much easier to change the fate of a minor deity than say Orlanth or Yelm.

Yes. Changing a major deity such as Orlanth is very difficult. Changing him into a dragon, for instance, would encounter a lot of resistance.

 

[Rurik]

Yes. Changing a major deity such as Orlanth is very difficult. Changing him into a dragon, for instance, would encounter a lot of resistance.

Now that would be daft. Whoever would dream of ever doing something as silly as that?

So then it would be kind of fair to say that the relative power of the heroquester to the prominence of the deity/myth being messed with would directly relate the impact of the heroquesters actions on said myth.

Gbaji and the Red Goddess are pretty powerful individuals (as was Arkat), so that they can have major impact with one heroquest, while most 'normal' heroquestors can't blight a races offspring or become a god based on one heroquest.

As I recall the godlearners used a lot of repetition in the goddess switch (though I may be wrong), and they chose relatively minor deities. So that even with their God Learnery powers their 'big' acheivement was not as impressive as say Gbaji's.

 

[Rurik]

This also affects the sorts of magic available to you as well.

In what ways?

How would you take a stab at representing this in RQ rules terms?

 

[simonh]

I've yet to see a satisfactory writeup of the Hill of Gold Quest, but some of the ones I've seen do stray into interesting territory.

For me, the point of the quest is that Yelmalio voluntarily gives up all his best advantages, allows himself to be set up for an ambush, etc because he is duty bound to do so.

If I were running it, that's how I'd play it. You are asked by a superior to lend him you're only shield. You are honor bound to help the old man who helped you, so you chop his wood with you're sword untill it's blunt. The straps on your armour rot away when you swim the bog to retrieve the eggs for the little girl. The only honorable thing to do when asked to carry the old woman up the hill is to do so, thus exhausting himself, putting aside his weapons and making himself easy meat for an ambush. You volunteer to defend the most vulnerable place to attack. (I'm making all this up).

If you're character has advantages not mentioned in the 'official' myth, guess what? Further tests come up that require you to give them up, or which neutralize them, after all quests can be very difficult to precisely predict. I've played through part of the LBQ with Greg at a Con, and the apearance and order of the encounters can be very hard to identify, and unexpected events and encounters can intrude at any time. What's important is the meaning of the myth, not the specifics.

The point is that honourable behaviour can have it's costs. To 'win' would require retaining some advantages, but in which case the ultimate goal of the quest will elude you forever. True victory is to survive and do you're duty even in defeat.