M2 Bradley stats

[Mr Evil]

thing is their re loas of shadows so keeping track of all of them would be madness in big games so thats why they probably didnt bother and only let them fire one perturn, if they fire one of ad you dont kill it soon, then big bad you.

the tungusta will be in more limited numbers so keeping record of its missiles would be simpler.

 

[Pietia]

One thing that might be relevant - if the Bradley stats are for the same period as the rest of BF:Evo units, it should be rearmed a little bit. The US Army plans to replace TOWs with CKEM when it becomes available - on Bradleys too...

 

[Gibbs]

Good point Pietia...if the shadows have ckem then the bradleys would have them too...

But a bradley with a 3D6+1 gun and a D10+3 missile launcher :shock: :?:
That's not friendly at all.

 

[Shadow4ce]

Good point Pietia...if the shadows have ckem then the bradleys would have them too...

But a bradley with a 3D6+1 gun and a D10+3 missile launcher :shock: :?:
That's not friendly at all.

Who said War was friendly? :wink:

 

[Gibbs]

Who said War was friendly? :wink:

:lol:

Another good point.

Blanaced would have been a better choice of wording. The Bradley, with ckem missiles can now sit behind a wall and instant kill a challenger 2 and then stow its launcher :shock:

...therefore no reprecussions to it and can move...unless the pop-up launcher is removed....

 

[shmitty]

But a bradley with a 3D6+1 gun and a D10+3 missile launcher :shock: :?:
That's not friendly at all.

Don't forget the MG too!

I really doubt the Bushmaster will be 3d6+1 though. I can't see the Bradleys gun, which fire Depleted Uranium rounds, being weaker than the PLA 25mm, which is 2d6+2. I would gove it those same stats, but with 1 better armor piercing than the PLA gun for the better rounds.

 

[Gibbs]

Don't forget the MG too!
I really doubt the Bushmaster will be 3d6+1 though. I can't see the Bradleys gun, which fire Depleted Uranium rounds, being weaker than the PLA 25mm, which is 2d6+2. I would gove it those same stats, but with 1 better armor piercing than the PLA gun for the better rounds.

That's true... with 3D6+1 you're basically making it a faster firing 50cal. DU rounds and 40mm should probably go to 2d6+2 (that way it can actually engage and destroy lightly armoured targets with its main gun as it has reportedly done)

So....

But a Bradley with a 3D6 MG, a 2D6+2 bushmaster and a D10+3 missile launcher :shock: :?:
That's not friendly at all.

It that better shmitty?

 

[Hiromoon]

Well, I'd argue you'd do more damage with the Bushmaster 25 mm than the PLA's 25mm with the 3d6+1...

 

[Gibbs]

Well, I'd argue you'd do more damage with the Bushmaster 25 mm than the PLA's 25mm with the 3d6+1...

That's not entirely true...you'd get more shooting in certainly but your max score wouldn't be enough to take on light tanks such as apcs etc...(There are even unsubstantiated reports that the bushmaster has been able to take out T-72s at close range). With 3d6+1 you get more shots but you don't get the ability to damage APCs which I think a 25mm DU round can actually do. The Bushmaster should be able to at least have a chance to equal the hit score of light armour which it simply can't do without the +2...it also means that very lightly armoured targets (shadows, technicals and those PLA buggies) are going to be less likely to survive having a DU round put into them (which is pretty hard for these sort of vehicles to protect against and pretty hard to survive anyway).

Those are my thoughts anyway and I'm happy to be challenged on the stats for kill/hit scores as I don't have them in front of me although I think the warrior is 8/10, shadow 7/8, bradley 8/12 (as was the abrams), 8/13 for challenger 2 and can't remember the technicals and IFV and buggy.

 

[Hiromoon]

Well, remember, when it comes to gameplay reality takes a backseat to balance.

Besides, these aren't my stats, so you're going to have to convince Paladin and the other chap.

Also, how common is the M919 25mm APFSDS round for the Bradley? As opposed to the M791 Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot with Tracer (APDS-T) round?

 

[Anpu42]

I am an old Twilite: 2000 player.
They had a Variant with Helfire Missiles.
Also one of my PC's Replaced the Twin TOW Launcher with a Pair of M202 "Flash"* Launchers for Urban Combat.

*M202 Flash=the Quad 66mm LAW Launcher [from the Movie: Commando]

=0o0=

 

[sassgt]

With first hand knowledge and by inspecting T-72's up close (I couldn't fit inside) they SUCK!!! It's a P.O.S! A 25mm w/ DU ammo should be able to kill one no problem. DPICM destroyed them wholesale, no questions asked.

 

[Hiromoon]

One thing that might be relevant - if the Bradley stats are for the same period as the rest of BF:Evo units, it should be rearmed a little bit. The US Army plans to replace TOWs with CKEM when it becomes available - on Bradleys too...

Actually, CKEM is a follow on to LOSAT, not TOW.



Some more information for the TOW-ER

Wireless TOW (ER)
A fifth generation of the TOW family, TOW-ER also known as TOW AERO provides significant operational advantages above the latest TOW-2B version. Among the improvements are improved aerodynamic profile and elimination of guidance wires, enabling target engagements beyond 4.5 km. The aerodynamic improvements maintain higher velocity throughout the flight which enables the missile to cover the longer distance at almost the same time (21 seconds) as it required to fly to its previous max. range of 3.75 km. The wire guidance system is replaced by a radio command link. The new guidance system is immune to IR countermeasures which could be used by enemy tanks. Both upgrades can be performed on the TOW-2B missile and offer savings of 20-40% compared to new acquisitions. The US Army is testing the modified missile and has funded procurement of the wireless TOW 2B version through fiscal years 2007 - 2009.

And

TOW missiles are undergoing improvements that will maintain them in service through 2025.

 

[Pietia]

CKEM is a follow on LOSAT technology - but it is supposed to be smaller (40-50KG). Several articles I read on the LOSAT and it derivatives mentioned the intent to replace TOWs on all combat vehicles with them.

 

[Hiromoon]

I don't know about smaller... the LOSAT set up takes up a good portion of the roof of a Humvee lenghtwise.

 

[Pietia]

The Compact Kinetic Energy Missile (CKEM) is 60 inches long, weighs less than 100 pounds

Straight from the Lockheed-Martin website:
http://www.missilesandfirecontrol.com/our_products/antiarmor/CKEM/product-CKEM.html

 

[Hiromoon]

That's the missile itself, not the launch system.

LOSAT:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/losat/index.html#losat2

See how much space that sucker takes up?

 

[Gibbs]

From the discussion so far:
1. There is a newer version of the TOW which is being phased in now.
2. CKEMs are still in the devlopmen stages yet it is thought that they will replace the current missile systems including the TOW (although they are LOSAT development).
3. We have assumed so far that by 2015 CKEM will be available.

Is this correct?

Well, remember, when it comes to gameplay reality takes a backseat to balance.

Besides, these aren't my stats, so you're going to have to convince Paladin and the other chap.

Also, how common is the M919 25mm APFSDS round for the Bradley? As opposed to the M791 Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot with Tracer (APDS-T) round?

I would think that giving the Bradley a stat of 2D6+2 was failry well balanced gameplay wise. The gun is still not a powerful as a 40mm bu its more powerful than a 50cal and is on par with the PLA's 25mm.

In answer to you question on ammo Hiro, I have no idea but there have been a lot of assumptions about the different technologies that will be available then. Also one thing we can say for sure is that every new ammunition that is developped will have better penertrating abilities than its forerunners (at least you would hope so).

You are right though, it is the others that need convincing. So, should the Bradley's main gun be 2D6+2 or 3D+1 and should the Bradley have CKEMs or TOW?

I've stated what I think let me know what you're thinking.

 

[Jellicoe]

In answer to you question on ammo Hiro, I have no idea but there have been a lot of assumptions about the different technologies that will be available then. Also one thing we can say for sure is that every new ammunition that is developped will have better penertrating abilities than its forerunners (at least you would hope so).

There is only so much you can get out of a particular type of ammunication. Even 10 years a 25mm round is not going to be substanitally better. Otherwise why the need to upgun the Warrior from 30 to 40mm if all that you needed was better ammo? For the type of game BFevo is I don't think that sub MBT guns damage would be radically different between nations. Using the Chinese 25mm stats seems right, +1 if you wish. We know that the M2/M3 25mm can penetrate an Abrams under very special conditions, not the norm!!

The M2/M3 is not the main tank killer in the US Army inventory, and will never be - that's what the M1 and heilcopters are for. I think we have during the course of this discussion identified that the TOW is very much an ancilliary system for the vehicle. It is unlikely that the Bradely in would be redesigned to accomadate a completely new missile system. There is a huge TOW inventory which would be wasted. And it will in some form be replaced by FCS vehicles.

 

[Pietia]

Hiromoon, you're confusing the Compact Kinetic Energy Missile (CKEM) with Kinetic Energy Missile, which is the "missile component" of LOSAT. The LOSAT project itself has been finished in 2004 and the missile not selected for production. However, the CKEM is a spiral development of the KEM - you probably noticed the "Compact" in the name, which is the important word here. KEM was 113 inches long (twice as much as CKEM is going to be, and - surprise - roughly as much as the length of the HMMWV rooftop) and weighed 174 pounds (almost twice as much as CKEM) - so it required a huge launcher. CKEM will be only a little bit larger than TOW missile, so it will probably require a launcher only a little bit bigger than TOW. (BTW - if you bothered to read the entire text under the link you provided, you'd know most of that already).