Looking to start a second fleet

[kritikalfailure]

So now that my Crusade Era EA is mostly complete (barring Marathons and anything else I decide to add if Mongoose includes more ships), I'm considering starting a second fleet.

My question is, what will play completely differently (but still be viable) than my Armored Brick Armada. Right now I'm looking towards Minbari (stealthy but fragile) or possibly one of the LONAW fleets. And there's always Dilgar, I guess.

 

[Shadow Queen]

get the early fleet (EA) and then try dilgar in the end its up to you

 

[Triggy]

If you're looking for different then you have Vorlons and Shadows being hugely different in game and campaign style (and cheap to buy!), Minbari are nice now with a lot of skill required to keep the enemy at arms' length and as you say, the Dilgar are a pretty close-ranged fleet with a mixture of speed and slowness but some nice tricks up their sleeve and the League have four completely different styles all of their own.

At the end of the day, there are many possibilities and it comes down to how you want to play and what miniatures you like. Once you know that, we can help a little more on which fleet would suit you best.

 

[Shadow Queen]

now the battle crab is armageddon and 6 flights of fighters for free

 

[kritikalfailure]

Here are some thoughts:

Vorlons might be interesting, and would obviously be cost efficient. But Crusade EA is already top-heavy and Vorlons are even more so.

Centauri, eh, no. These guys look just a little too easy to win with.

The only reason I don't like Minbari is they don't seem to be effective at all priority levels. The lack of a viable patrol choice doesn't really bother me, but couple that with having perhaps the weakest Skirmish level ship, and I get a little nervous (since we play campaigns almost exclusively). However I love the models. Do they tend to do well in campaigns?

My backup plan is Drakh. Our local Drakh player has more or less decided to drop them because they are a bookkeeping nightmare in campaigns and the fleet is proving to be too expensive for his tastes. They obviously work well as a second fleet for a Crusade Era EA (i.e. if you have two fleets, they might as well be enemies), and the models aren't too bad.

 

[Calistan]

You could also make a White Star fleet. Earth is slow and steady, while the White Stars depend on speed.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Play lots of games with counters first, to get the feel of the races you want, and see if they suit you. The Centauri have a real problem in campaign- there's no worthwhile weapon upgrade on the refit table.
The Minbari have a hidden advantage; tactically, they're still limited by PL, but in terms of available ships, Battle and War are so much more cheaper with RR proportional to their tactical value that if you start winning, you are pretty easily able to buy in the ships that let you keep winning.

I for one intend to flat out ignore Matt Sprange's decision to allow Motherships to regenerate Raiders in the same way other races' carriers regenerate fighter flights. It seems on an order of absent- mindedness easily equal to the aft neutron laser debacle.

 

[kritikalfailure]

So would this be a good 10 point Battle Minbari fleet to start a campaign with?

1 Sharlin
1 Morshin
1 Tinashi
1 Veshatan
6 Tigara
6 Torotha

 

[Slightly Norse John]

That could work, it's fine down to the Tigara and Torotha. At that point I'd start exploiting the Armageddon point splits, which give you raid and two skirmish for a battle point, and use two points that way, Leshath, Teshlan (cover the specialties) and four Torotha. Three points left, I'd spend one on another Tinashi or assassin Shantavi, and the other two on four Raiders, probably three Tigara and another Teshlan or Leshath.
You probably do need a few Torotha around, but not many.

 

[kritikalfailure]

That could work, it's fine down to the Tigara and Torotha. At that point I'd start exploiting the Armageddon point splits, which give you raid and two skirmish for a battle point, and use two points that way, Leshath, Teshlan (cover the specialties) and four Torotha. Three points left, I'd spend one on another Tinashi or assassin Shantavi, and the other two on four Raiders, probably three Tigara and another Teshlan or Leshath.
You probably do need a few Torotha around, but not many.

We've houseruled the point split so that it can only apply to one FAP at a time (one in initial campaign list, one in each engagement). That seems to be the intention so you can add some flexibility, but not broken discounts (i.e. 2 battle = 2 raid and 3 skirmish, not 2 raid and 4 skirmish)

The Torotha are around simply to give me some Skirmish level options, and I'm fairly certain they will be squadroned when they show up. It's also useful for Jump Point Bombs (although I don't particularly like that tactic, I will use it in a pinch). I could drop 3 of them in order to pick up a Leshath and Teshlan, however. Or I could split that point in order to get either a Leshath/Teshlan and 2 Torothas.

 

[Triggy]

That list looks pretty good but it may be worth switching out a couple of the Tigaras (they may be just about the best Raid level ship going but variety is needed in a campaign) for a couple of other options to give you flexibility in low PL games. Particularly the Teshlan to give you some long range options in a Raid ship although the Ashinta is also a good choice as a tough, mid-ranged Raid ship.

Otherwise, the Minbari are a good fleet to take in a campaign and you can always apply a +2/3 modifier to your PL rolls to keep from too many small games.

 

[kritikalfailure]

That list looks pretty good but it may be worth switching out a couple of the Tigaras (they may be just about the best Raid level ship going but variety is needed in a campaign) for a couple of other options to give you flexibility in low PL games. Particularly the Teshlan to give you some long range options in a Raid ship although the Ashinta is also a good choice as a tough, mid-ranged Raid ship.

Otherwise, the Minbari are a good fleet to take in a campaign and you can always apply a +2/3 modifier to your PL rolls to keep from too many small games.

Since I don't have my rulebook sitting in front of me, what is the Teshlan a variant of (i.e. what model is used for it).

The Ashinata I like, but it seems to get outclassed by the Tigara and Teshlan.

 

[Triggy]

Teshlan is a Tigara variant, Ashinta is a Tinashi variant.

 

[kritikalfailure]

Teshlan is a Tigara variant, Ashinta is a Tinashi variant.

Excellent. My next question is, although the Tigara is considered one of the best Raid ships running, it doesn't seem to fit the general role of the Minbari fleet all that well. It seems that the general tactic for Minbari is to keep your enemy at mid to long range so your stealth can protect you (hopefully).

Given that half the Tigara's weapons are 8" range, getting them close is the only way to get the full bang for your buck out of these ships. I'm guessing people run them in squadrons of 2 to help survivability?

 

[emperorpenguin]

The Tigara does have a drawback with those short-range guns BUT with so much precise firepower you'll make a mess of opponents.

I find the best use of a Tigara is as an ambusher. Keep it in hyperspace and jump out into the vulnerable arc of the enemy, the lack of return firepower should help keep you safe.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

OK, odd about the points splits, but what the hey. The Teshlan trades the Tigara's 8" weapons for a light Neutron Laser, more traditionally Minbari- but one use I found for the Tigara was counterattack; deploy them on the table but hold them back, send them in against the ships that try to close on the Minbari line.
The Ashinta is a Tinashi without it's main gun. It's very nearly a Minbari Nova, but it lacks the raw firepower, although it is fairly survivable. They're nothing special, mediocre support ships. They'll help you not lose, but they won't help you win.

 

[Silvereye]

I'd definitely find a way to squeeze a Leshath into that fleet somewhere, Scouts can be very beneficial at times. Ashinta's I have found very useful as a sweeper, finishing off damaged ships and removing fighters. Generally tidying up after the fleet. It is sort of like a Minbari Nova, but not as good in dealing out the necessary damage to maul things outright. Only other thing to watch with the Veshatan is in an dated campaign as its out of service date is before the in service date of most other races. Replace it with another Morshin (for fighters and command) or a Tinashi if necessary.

Tigaras (and probably Torothas) make excellent hyperspace ambushers. Squadron them up and bring them in on a weak arc of your opponent, fighters (where available) set to escort.

 

[Vertexx69]

In a raid 5 game I like 4 tigaras and 2 torothas. start with a torotha out behind cover open a jump bomb in the middle of the enemy fleet with the other tor then send in the 4 tigaras squadroned, taking advantage of at least 3 of the weapon arcs to kill 4-6 ships outright.

 

[prelude_to_war]

The Ashinta is one of my favorite ships - underated but probably the most versatile.

I like Tigaras too but, as noted above, placement via AJP is key. All that P, AP, DD is nice but will get absorbed by interceptors. Could be worth trying with the new 'A' fighter rule. Take down interceptors with Nials, destroy with Tigaras, repeat.