Looking for advice: Planet invasion and high TL adventure/source books

[Condottiere]

We have evolving and multipolar ideologies.

Sort of implied that the core Vilani appear to have only one, by the time they encounter the Terrans.

 

[Sigtrygg]

All Vargr are like this...
all Aslan are like this...
all Vilani are like this
all Solomani are like this...

I think this is lazy.

 

[MasterGwydion]

All Vargr are like this...
all Aslan are like this...
all Vilani are like this
all Solomani are like this...

I think this lazy.

I agree. There is no evidence that humans are even capable of having a monoculture like the Vilani supposedly had.

 

[Thisdan]

Cannot see if anyone has already mentioned, but The Fall of Tinath adventure, with technologically advanced minor races, might provide what you are looking for:

Mongoose 2nd: The Fall of Tinath - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Thanks, I will take a look!

 

[Thisdan]

What is the nature of the adventure?
Are the adventurers with the invasion? Are they defending against it? Or are they travellers caught in the middle of a war?

Classic Traveller

• The Traveller Adventure. Part of the campaign has the PC's caught in the middle of a war between two powers on a balkanized world, and then a mercenary attack.
• Double Aventure 6 Night of Conquest. The PC's are caught in an invasion of one planetary nation by another.

MegaTraveller

• Knightfall, scenario 2 Prisoners, pg. 24. This full page sidebar describes a planetary assault from orbit.
• Hard Times. This supplement offers a good overview the effects of war on planets and subsectors.

As for rules, I'd suggest these Traveller board games:

• Imperium
• Fifth Frontier War
• Invasion Earth

I am planning to get them involved in a spinoff of the 5th frontier war. I want to have them arrive at a planet to retrieve some important artefacts while a Zhodani planetary invasion is going on. Thanks for the advice, I will take a look at them!

 

[actionman]

I am planning to get them involved in a spinoff of the 5th frontier war. I want to have them arrive at a planet to retrieve some important artefacts while a Zhodani planetary invasion is going on. Thanks for the advice, I will take a look at them!

I suggest you include the reaction of the civilian population to the invasion. Panic, crowds of people rushing everywhere, people trying to get supplies or get to friends and family, military forces mobilizing, transportation networks jammed as people try to get away from the warzones and target areas. Communications overloaded or down. Vital systems captured or down. Police or security trying to maintain order, prevent looting, and support defense. Civil defense crews trying to get through to damaged facilities and systems. Spacers trying to get back to their ships. Civilian ships desperately trying to lift, some falling back to ground in flames. The fireball and the shockwave when the starport LHyd storage goes up. A character wakes up because a random stranger is desperately pulling him out of the rubble. Refugees and civilian ships fanning out into isolated areas.

 

[actionman]

(Cloning and creche training can pound out 18-year-olds every 18 months with 4 0-level skills ready to begin their careers.)

But how many will die in character generation?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Fit them with a wafer jack and just download the skills you need them to have, no need for a career.

 

[MasterGwydion]

But how many will die in character generation?

They can be replaced in 18 months if they die. lol

 

[MasterGwydion]

I suggest you include the reaction of the civilian population to the invasion. Panic, crowds of people rushing everywhere, people trying to get supplies or get to friends and family, military forces mobilizing, transportation networks jammed as people try to get away from the warzones and target areas. Communications overloaded or down. Vital systems captured or down. Police or security trying to maintain order, prevent looting, and support defense. Civil defense crews trying to get through to damaged facilities and systems. Spacers trying to get back to their ships. Civilian ships desperately trying to lift, some falling back to ground in flames. The fireball and the shockwave when the starport LHyd storage goes up. A character wakes up because a random stranger is desperately pulling him out of the rubble. Refugees, civilian ships, and civilian ships fanning out into isolated areas.

What idiots actually put their fuel storage above ground? I have seen rules for putting the tanks below ground, but none specifically mentioning the rules for putting them above ground. I would have to assume that above ground tanks would cost 50,000Cr/ton while below ground tanks only cost 5,000Cr/ton

 

[actionman]

What is the whole point of the war if you're just gonna destroy anything worth fight the war over?

• Denying the system and world's starport repair, refueling, refit, and R&R facilities to the enemy. Starports are also a staging area for enemy action.
• Denying war industry to the enemy, since enemy starships could simply land under grav right at the factories that produce parts, stores, etc.
• Prevent the enemy from using those worlds' industrial and economic output for years to come. Harm the enemy's economy by the cost. Deny the resources of those worlds to the enemies.
• Create a devastated zone between the you and the enemy so that the enemy has no reason to defend those worlds, and therefore withdraws fleets back to his nearest valuable worlds and away from your border.
  Make it not worth it to the enemy to settle in those star systems, since they always get devastated every war.
• Friendly forces may not be able to garrison a world, because of depletion or pressing need elsewhere.
• IMO there isn't much of a sense of brotherhood or the milk of human kindness in Traveller, even between the different races of Humaniti. Even when people aren't hating each other, it seems like they don't care about each other. Edit: I'm talking about how races in general don't feel kinship with each other. I'm not talking about individuals. I should've been more specific.

There might not be much of an ecosystem to destroy. I looked at some Spinward Marches data by subsector, worlds with atmosphere types 5, 6, and 8 are in the minority (thin, standard, dense).

It's the same with population. Worlds with populations above 10 million are in the minority.

Also, we shouldn't underestimate a population's ability to rebuild, especially at high TLs. On worlds with low populations (several million or less) and a hostile/barren environment, the situation could be very bad, like a die off or an abandoned world. If the conquering power moves in, rebuilding and repopulating could happen within 10 years or less. Besides, from what I looked at for all of the Spindward Marches, there aren't many worlds that are worth all that much.

In the case of the Vilani, an empire roughly on par with the 3I in size and breadth, I believe they felt that making an example by glassing a world here or there would make the others fall into line.

The Third Imperium's policy:

It's the homeworld of a minor race, but that didn't matter. They raised their hand against the Iridium Throne and they died. Ilelish is still a devastated world 700 years later. As if the Imperial authorities care about ecosystems, or unique alien cultures, or sophont life, or anything besides wealth and power.

 

[actionman]

What idiots actually put their fuel storage above ground? I have seen rules for putting the tanks below ground, but none specifically mentioning the rules for putting them above ground. I would have to assume that above ground tanks would cost 50,000Cr/ton while below ground tanks only cost 5,000Cr/ton

People who put their fuel storage below ground and get it blown up anyway by bunker buster munitions or meson strikes. At a commercial starport, underground fuel storage is probably not hardened. It's probably not that deep and built to protect the fuel from ship crashes, fires, and so on, not military attack by a TL14-15 war fleet.

There are also many rl examples of fuel storage above ground, but rl isn't all that great of a measuring stick for Traveller discussions.

 

[MasterGwydion]

People who put their fuel storage below ground and get it blown up anyway by bunker buster munitions or meson strikes. At a commercial starport, underground fuel storage is probably not hardened. It's probably not that deep and built to protect the fuel from ship crashes, fires, and so on, not military attack by a TL14-15 war fleet.

There are also many rl examples of fuel storage above ground, but rl isn't all that great of a measuring stick for Traveller discussions.

Outside of the Third Imperium, perhaps. Inside the Third Imperium, no. Starports are all governed by the same Authority, the SPA. If they have refined fuel, it's underground in hardened bunkers. Starports are prime military targets, it usually has the most space for landing your troops.

 

[Condottiere]

Submarine tankers.

 

[actionman]

Starports are all governed by the same Authority, the SPA. If they have refined fuel, it's underground in hardened bunkers.

What is the source for the hardened bunkers? I looked through GT Starports, and there were only a few comments:

• ... but most downports bury the tankage on a remote corner of their site (preferably in rock), then pump the fuel to individual berths through a system of underground pipes... pg. 72
• Downport fuel processors generally are placed underground, close to the fuel depot. pg. 73
• Aboveground tanks, suitable for small ports and temporary installations, cost MCr0.05less per module. pg 73

In any case, bunker busters and meson strikes. Something else, I never stated in my post that the LHyd storage was above ground.

With grav vehicles, troops can be landed wherever there's a flat space, if they have to be unloaded from a ship at all. Depending on how the invasion forces are equipped, troops will probably leave their troopships in grav APCs and dismount wherever when they need to conduct dismounted operations. It might even be a good idea to land somewhere besides the starport, since it will have been heavily bombarded and possibly trapped or have target reference points for defending forces, in the expectation that the invading forces will concentrate there.

 

[MasterGwydion]

What is the source for the hardened bunkers? I looked through GT Starports, and there were only a few comments:

• ... but most downports bury the tankage on a remote corner of their site (preferably in rock), then pump the fuel to individual berths through a system of underground pipes... pg. 72
• Downport fuel processors generally are placed underground, close to the fuel depot. pg. 73
• Aboveground tanks, suitable for small ports and temporary installations, cost MCr0.05less per module. pg 73

In any case, bunker busters and meson strikes. Something else, I never stated in my post that the LHyd storage was above ground.

With grav vehicles, troops can be landed wherever there's a flat space, if they have to be unloaded from a ship at all. Depending on how the invasion forces are equipped, troops will probably leave their troopships in grav APCs and dismount wherever when they need to conduct dismounted operations. It might even be a good idea to land somewhere besides the starport, since it will have been heavily bombarded and possibly trapped or have target reference points for defending forces, in the expectation that the invading forces will concentrate there.

Perhaps I was incorrect. Now that I am looking, I cannot find that damn reference! Now I feel like an idiot. I am usually good at remembering where to look.

 

[actionman]

Perhaps I was incorrect. Now that I am looking, I cannot find that damn reference! Now I feel like an idiot. I am usually good at remembering where to look.

It was probably in one of those obscure Traveller books, like a third party book or something. It happens. Edit: Besides, GT is GT, I don't consider it particularly canon. I won't argue, but I simply cannot accept a lot of the things GT writers added.

 

[collins355]

I am planning to get them involved in a spinoff of the 5th frontier war. I want to have them arrive at a planet to retrieve some important artefacts while a Zhodani planetary invasion is going on. Thanks for the advice, I will take a look at them!

The original JTAS had an adventure titled "Soft Bunk" or what to do when the Zhodani attack that was just this.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It was probably in one of those obscure Traveller books, like a third party book or something. It happens. Edit: Besides, GT is GT, I don't consider it particularly canon. I won't argue, but I simply cannot accept a lot of the things GT writers added.

No worries. I have kept looking, but have still come up dry. Oh well. I will just assume I am in error, until/unless I find that damn reference again.

 

[rinku]

I mean, do you even need rules here? Rules are for PCs, really.

Unless you have a group of players who are funding construction of a base, just say that the fuel is above ground or below ground, and assign an armour value if required. Up to and including "your ship's lasers can't penetrate, but a missile might. Make a roll if you want to try."