Hi all, I am interested in running an adventure dealing with a planetary invasion. Do you have suggestions which adventures or source books give background or rules for it? Also what would you recommend for descriptions or settings for high TL surroundings? Any adventures or source material for this? Thanks!
Looking for advice: Planet invasion and high TL adventure/source books
- Thread starter Thisdan
- Start date
G'Naakbusters
Emperor Mongoose
If you're interested in older editions, I'm pretty sure the MegaTraveller core books outline planetary invasion campaigns. I can't be more specific off the top of my head, but I'd start there. The background for MegaTraveller was a big war, and I definitely recall there being some example military actions against key High Population worlds described, in varying levels of detail. Anyone able to be more specific? (The military angle on the setting isn't really my point of interest).
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
This is a constant subject of discussion here on the board. In fact, I was wondering some of the same things in 2300AD milieu.
The bare-bones basics of a planetary invasion go something like this:
- 1. Defeat enemy fleet forces.
- 2. Search out, engage and destroy any enemy stay-behind forces
- 3. Identify and neutralize any on-planet defense batteries
- 4. Select an LZ
- 5. Land assault forces.
Like I said, 'bare bones'. The details in all of this will make or break your invasion.
In Traveller, the most discussed planetary invasion is Operation Prodigal Son, the Imperial invasion of Terra at the end of the Solomani Rim War. That can be gamed out in GDW's 'Invasion Earth' wargame. Another, more personal, look at a planetary invasion is in the 2300AD milieu title 'Operation Overlord'.
An earlier edition that also talks about invasions is 'GURPS Traveller Ground Forces'.
The bare-bones basics of a planetary invasion go something like this:
- 1. Defeat enemy fleet forces.
- 2. Search out, engage and destroy any enemy stay-behind forces
- 3. Identify and neutralize any on-planet defense batteries
- 4. Select an LZ
- 5. Land assault forces.
Like I said, 'bare bones'. The details in all of this will make or break your invasion.
In Traveller, the most discussed planetary invasion is Operation Prodigal Son, the Imperial invasion of Terra at the end of the Solomani Rim War. That can be gamed out in GDW's 'Invasion Earth' wargame. Another, more personal, look at a planetary invasion is in the 2300AD milieu title 'Operation Overlord'.
An earlier edition that also talks about invasions is 'GURPS Traveller Ground Forces'.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That would appear to be exceptional.
Since it was by being the Homeworld of Humanity, by extension sanctified, the Imperium couldn't glass it, and the Confederation would fight for every square inch of it, probably a lot more ground forces than mentioned were defending it, and were used to invade it.
Since it was by being the Homeworld of Humanity, by extension sanctified, the Imperium couldn't glass it, and the Confederation would fight for every square inch of it, probably a lot more ground forces than mentioned were defending it, and were used to invade it.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The military is highly likely under represented in Traveller, probably by intent.
There's no basis to compare interstellar navies, but we do understand ground combat a lot better.
The Imperium decided they were satisfied with taking Terra, but it's implied that they had catastrophic losses taking it; the Confederation probably knew, that in the long run, they didn't have the industrial capacity to replace their (naval) losses, though, in the short run, recalling the frontier units, they probably could stalemate, if not Ardennes, the Imperium Navy.
There's no basis to compare interstellar navies, but we do understand ground combat a lot better.
The Imperium decided they were satisfied with taking Terra, but it's implied that they had catastrophic losses taking it; the Confederation probably knew, that in the long run, they didn't have the industrial capacity to replace their (naval) losses, though, in the short run, recalling the frontier units, they probably could stalemate, if not Ardennes, the Imperium Navy.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
What's this obsession with nuking human-viable worlds? Yes, I absolutely grant you that invading a world is more difficult and costly, but I absolutely fail to understand this urge some folks have to utterly wreck a world purely for convenience's sake.
I should also point out that, just like WWII, the Solomani Rim War was an ideological struggle between Solomani Party and the Imperium. In Emperor Gavin's estimation, the Imperial Armed Forces were liberating Imperial worlds from the racist Solomani yoke, not conquering them. Scouring the target world would have been an admission of failure on the part of the IN, so they had to do it the hard way. However the Imperium thought in the long term. They kept peacekeeping garrisons and Civil Action battalions on the ground until partisan and terrorist activity was reduced to levels that law enforcement could control.
This attitude of 'if I can't have it, eat a nuke' is only appropriate in limited cases NOT as a simple solution to a complicated problem.
I should also point out that, just like WWII, the Solomani Rim War was an ideological struggle between Solomani Party and the Imperium. In Emperor Gavin's estimation, the Imperial Armed Forces were liberating Imperial worlds from the racist Solomani yoke, not conquering them. Scouring the target world would have been an admission of failure on the part of the IN, so they had to do it the hard way. However the Imperium thought in the long term. They kept peacekeeping garrisons and Civil Action battalions on the ground until partisan and terrorist activity was reduced to levels that law enforcement could control.
This attitude of 'if I can't have it, eat a nuke' is only appropriate in limited cases NOT as a simple solution to a complicated problem.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Human history.
The smart thing to do are sieges and starving out the defenders.
Occasionally, trebucheting some dead cows over the wall.
The smart thing to do are sieges and starving out the defenders.
Occasionally, trebucheting some dead cows over the wall.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
It was the Vilani solution to all First Imperium problems.
And the Third did a pretty good job of continuing the tradition on Ilelish.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
And the Ziru Sirka caused many worlds to rebel against them because of their 'nuke it first' policy. Very convenient for the Ishimkarun in the short term, but lousy policy in the long term.
As for the Ilelish Revolt, it happened 500 years before the Solomani Rim War. And, just like in the Rim, the Imperium had to spend better than 100 years pacifying and reintegrating a significant number of the 'treasure worlds' [the high-pop, high-tech worlds the Imperium really values] after the revolt was officially put down.
You do have a point, however. The similarities between the Ilelish Revolt and the Rim War are eerie. It seems to me that the Imperium learned something for the earlier campaign.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Exactly how do you plan on starving the mother world of human race into submission? Dropping bacteriological or chemical agents on to farmland ON EARTH would be political suicide even for an Emperor.
And we could feed everyone on Earth right now, 8 trillion people at TL 8, the only thing stopping us is politics and profiteering. So feeding 10 trillion on the evolutionary native biosphere at TL 14 would be child's play.
In almost all cases, you win in orbit, you win.
Why bother occupying a world? They're not going anywhere. Destroy their ability to make orbit, possibly FROM orbit, and patrol it safely. No need to send down troops or engage anything below the atmosphere, aside from blowing up aerospace assets.
World occupied.
Why bother occupying a world? They're not going anywhere. Destroy their ability to make orbit, possibly FROM orbit, and patrol it safely. No need to send down troops or engage anything below the atmosphere, aside from blowing up aerospace assets.
World occupied.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Though that said, if the world you're investing is high tech enough it may have deep crust meson cannon you'll need to do something about.
That's fair, although sort of falls under "ability to make orbit". Perhaps reword that to be "ability to affect anything in orbit"? You'd need to root out every laser battery, missile silo and so forth. Those are the worlds you need to invade, although once those assets are dealt with you can withdraw.
Planets like Earth are the exception. But maybe the campaign focus world IS such an exception?
Planets like Earth are the exception. But maybe the campaign focus world IS such an exception?
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
I disagree with that to a certain extent.
The mainworld is the whole point of the campaign... without it, you're just killing each other for rocks. And military history is absolutely full of campaigns where both sides lost because neither could fulfill their strategic goals. For just one example, the American Continental Army defeated the only super power on Earth just by staying in existence. Washington spent 5 solid years moving his army around to AVOID confronting the British save only at the place and time of his choosing, and he was VERY selective where and when he chose to fight. And every single one of his engagements, especially the big victories [Trenton, Monmouth, Saratoga, etc.], served to raise the legitimacy of his army and his cause.
And it is germane to note that the Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong did the exact same thing 200 years later...
In a Traveller sense, yes, winning the space battle is HUGE part of winning the world. But the enemy can still defeat you, even though you control orbital space, by denying you all the resources on that main world and by defeating your political purpose by just not getting conquered.
Sure. It's only *most* of the time that blockade will do the job. Sometimes you need to land, although to be frank the logistics of trying to occupy and pacify a major planet are extremely daunting.
Your example is a bit flawed, though. Britain in the late 18th century wasn't really a superpower, just a major colonial one like France and Spain. The seeds were there, but they only had major colonies in the Americas and parts of India.
And it took a French fleet to deal with the British one.
Your example is a bit flawed, though. Britain in the late 18th century wasn't really a superpower, just a major colonial one like France and Spain. The seeds were there, but they only had major colonies in the Americas and parts of India.
And it took a French fleet to deal with the British one.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It pretty much depends on exactly what you plan on doing with the besieged planet, or ...
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Maybe the Mainworld isn't important. Maybe the rest of the system has all of the resources that you need. Just deny them the ability to build/launch ships, and enjoy the rest of your day. Once these have been destroyed, lay the minefield and call it a day.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
1. Mines /drones /whatever can and will be subverted if left unattended. If you have to have naval assets to tend the mines, why bother with mines at all?
2. Sure, FeNi rocks are nice to have, but at the end of the day the real treasure in a high-tech high-pop world is the educated workforce and the factories. If you don't kill them, that is.
3. You might kill the factories but you didn't kill the knowledge base. The survivors know how to build space technologies. And it's a lot of work but not that hard a concept to build factories underground and use geothermal taps to power them.
Last thing: von Clauswitz' adage 'Warfare is politics by other means' applies here. A complete victory for your forces is to not only take a high-tech high-pop world from your enemy but to win over that population and have them start fueling YOUR forces instead. Anything less is only a marginal victory. Another adage, 'A conventional army loses if it does not win. A guerilla /resistance army wins if it does not lose.' - - Henry Kissinger
Similar threads
