For me personally, I like what is being discussed. Although heading the direction towards more accuracy, we all must know that we are at the same time laying pavement towards that "road to madness" that ends with a "too" detailed set of rules, so we should be careful or we will lose the simplicity that is the intent of VaS. But then again, DM has a point to be made about Japanese heavy cruiser compartmentalisation... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Long lance torpedoes. . .
- Thread starter Soulmage
- Start date
Soulmage
Mongoose
I don't think its a problem. Nobody has to play with these alternate rules after all. So long as they don't get included in the core rules they will be fine.
For instance, I liked the searchlight rule and we are using it.
Starshells, variable torpedo belt damage. . . too much detail that I'm not really interested in.
For instance, I liked the searchlight rule and we are using it.
Starshells, variable torpedo belt damage. . . too much detail that I'm not really interested in.
Der Kommandant
Mongoose
after seeing all of the house rules and changes everyone is adding i'm starting to feel like im playing starfleet battles again. :shock:
let me dig out my 3 ring binder and 7 pages of notes per ship to keep track of everything.
let me dig out my 3 ring binder and 7 pages of notes per ship to keep track of everything.
Soulmage said:
I think the torpedo belt idea has merit, but like I said you have to be very careful of the "slippery slope" when balancing accuracy and ease of play. What you said has merit too, and that ease of play is its own reward. Was the searchlight rule that you mentioned included in VaS and was it stated as an optional rule? Just don't forget that searchlights (like line-of-sight!) work both ways, lol. Did they put that in there? It's very similar to active radar and sonar. Go "active" and you are giving your location away as you look for targets to find. That is why star shells and floatplanes were deployed sometimes, as they were detached from the main ship and didn't self-illuminate as much. This too had its problems, as in the Battle of Savo Island the USS Chicago fired 44 star shells with only six functioning. :roll:
Der Kommandant said:after seeing all of the house rules and changes everyone is adding i'm starting to feel like im playing starfleet battles again. :shock:
let me dig out my 3 ring binder and 7 pages of notes per ship to keep track of everything.
A better example of "slippery slope" rules couldn't be offered over that, lol. :lol: Exactly! :shock:
I'm keeping track (or at least trying to keep track) of various "house rules". When I get time I'm going to stick them on my naval wargaming website. One thing I will be trying very hard to do is to ensure that the level of complexity of the "plug-ins" matches that of the original rules. I am VERY conscious of the "Star Fleet Battles" phenomenon.
Fortunately I think a lot of realism can be built in with minimal complexity through things like the "trait" system.
Fortunately I think a lot of realism can be built in with minimal complexity through things like the "trait" system.
Soulmage said:
Here you go, heh. http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/naval.html
Although I haven't picked them up yet, David has some rules for small vessel actions :wink: .
Wulfram
Mongoose
Greetings all, just so you know who I am...........
I am the one who picked up the 35 dice to DAMAGE the South Dakota. Originally I picked up 15 dice to HIT the South Dakota. 7 Hits x 5 DD.
7 LONG LANCE (Type 93, 24" torpedos).
I did damage with about 10 dice (about 4 - 6's) and felt pretty good, until the bulge came into play. He made me re-roll the 10 hits, it dropped to four hit and only one six, which he shrugged off through damage control.
Just as an overview of the actual events, We lost ONE DD before it launched it torpedos and Takao got off one volley, the Sendai and Jintsu also got in a torpedo launch. In the end, a rough estimate of 20 long lances struck home and about 5 21" (from the light cruisers). We did sink a DD with 21" from the Sentai.
Fitz and I talked tonight about the old GW re-roll for 7,8, and 9s and think it will be a house rule, but something HAS to be done of Torpedo Bulges. They make BBs immune to torpedos.
Also, to remind Fitz, we did not cripple the Dakota until the SECOND volley from the Kirishima struck home. (US ignored her for most of the game). The torpedos just dropped her down so Kirishima's guns could damage her
Oh and as a final........... what the??? When we finally had the Dakota cripples the ONLY critical she still had was the SPECIAL RULE from the game about her radar going out if she rolls double 1's. Funny thing that!
So, my first opinion of the game was a little........... disappointing. I will give Fitz at least one more shot at VAS and we shall see.
Oh, one more little side bar, it only took 10 American torpedos and 20 bombs to sink the Yamato and the American aerial torpedos have a noticably smaller warhead than the Longlance. Good thing torpedo bulges did not work like this in real life, or the Yamato would still be beached on Okinawa.
-W
I am the one who picked up the 35 dice to DAMAGE the South Dakota. Originally I picked up 15 dice to HIT the South Dakota. 7 Hits x 5 DD.
7 LONG LANCE (Type 93, 24" torpedos).
I did damage with about 10 dice (about 4 - 6's) and felt pretty good, until the bulge came into play. He made me re-roll the 10 hits, it dropped to four hit and only one six, which he shrugged off through damage control.
Just as an overview of the actual events, We lost ONE DD before it launched it torpedos and Takao got off one volley, the Sendai and Jintsu also got in a torpedo launch. In the end, a rough estimate of 20 long lances struck home and about 5 21" (from the light cruisers). We did sink a DD with 21" from the Sentai.
Fitz and I talked tonight about the old GW re-roll for 7,8, and 9s and think it will be a house rule, but something HAS to be done of Torpedo Bulges. They make BBs immune to torpedos.
Also, to remind Fitz, we did not cripple the Dakota until the SECOND volley from the Kirishima struck home. (US ignored her for most of the game). The torpedos just dropped her down so Kirishima's guns could damage her
Oh and as a final........... what the??? When we finally had the Dakota cripples the ONLY critical she still had was the SPECIAL RULE from the game about her radar going out if she rolls double 1's. Funny thing that!
So, my first opinion of the game was a little........... disappointing. I will give Fitz at least one more shot at VAS and we shall see.
Oh, one more little side bar, it only took 10 American torpedos and 20 bombs to sink the Yamato and the American aerial torpedos have a noticably smaller warhead than the Longlance. Good thing torpedo bulges did not work like this in real life, or the Yamato would still be beached on Okinawa.
-W
