Distant and Very Long Range Sensor detail

[wintertraveller]

When ships detect an object that might be a ship in the distance, what detail is needed to identify the object and uncover if the object is likely to be a hostile ship or not?

The sensor detail table in the Core2022 book p160 seems like it might not be possible to even identify ships at those ranges. Am I reading this wrong?

This question came up for me from reading the other thread about torpedoes and how those weapons fill a long range niche. A look at HG2022, also put a spotlight on the distant-range attribute of the large particle bay. I'm wondering about the use of very long and distant range weapons with limited sensor ability to identify targets.

Also, is there a limit at what range a target can be target locked?

Any insight on these themes would be helpful. Thank you!

 

[Vormaerin]

Traveller's sensors are pretty short range and the rules for them are quite basic. (compare to like 2300, which puts a lot more effort into the subject).

The short version is that determining any meaningful detail at that range is pretty unlikely per HG rules. You'd normally send a probe drone or some other kind of scout out to get a closer look. You should be able to tell the difference between a ship and rock, because ships are going to be hot (even if Traveller ignores waste heat dispersal).

If it was a player character situation, I'd probably let them make a Formidable Sensors roll to get some additional info. But I suspect that fighting at that distance only happens when you have some kind of forward observer ship/probe relaying targeting data back. Or you are launching missiles that can lock on once they get close enough to do so.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Without Arrays or Extension Nets you get "Minimal" information from Active Radar and Thermal sensors at Distant range, i.e. a sensor blip and its rough temperature.

To ID ships would, I guess, require "Full" sensor information and Short range, or Medium with an Extension Net.

There is no range limit on "Sensor Lock", it seems to more of a 70's thing of pointing the radar dish directly instead of scanning.


Fighting at Distant range is a question of seeing a bunch of sensor blips that don't respond to hails, and basically shooting blind in that general direction. If you approach a friendly system in wartime, be sure to announce your identity.


In peacetime at least, all ships in Imperial space are supposed to send a transponder signal identifying the ship. If you don't, you are up to no good... So, normally you have the position and identity of all ships within, say, Very Distant range.


As a house rule, I apply the attack range DM to sensor tasks. Civilians will not see all that far...


P.S. Thank you, I had missed the Distant range on Large PA bays, that it quite interesting...

 

[Condottiere]

It's mostly to remind your opponent not to approach too closely.

Space stations might be less amused.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Sensors and electronic warfare are a subject that deserve their own book, or at least a JTAS article or two.

 

[collins355]

Sensors and electronic warfare are a subject that deserve their own book, or at least a JTAS article or two.

Yes, I always admired the work of Bruce MacIntosh and Merrick Burkhardt, who actually worked with sensors in real life, and posted on the TML back in the day.

Their proposed sensor rules in the TNE/T4 era were outstanding, and quite user-friendly. In Bruce's "Definitive Sensor Rules" you essentially had a Target Signature number, a Sensor sensitivity number, a range factor and a table of modifiers.
Sensor sensitivity number minus Range factor plus Target Signature plus/minus any applicable modifiers gave you an overall Signal strength that you then converted on a chart into a task difficulty for the roleplaying system.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I have a copy of those rules on pdf somewhere...

 

[Vormaerin]

I'd love to see a sensors rework in TAS.

 

[ottarrus]

Replying to the OP here.
Sensors can detect an object, but that object's properties and behavior determine whether it's a threat or not. For example:
- Your ship is somewhere between the 10 and 100 diameter limit on your way to the Jump point. Your ship is operating normal peacetime rules. Your transponder is on, your sensors are set to Passive.
- Your navigator [the default sensors operator, depending skill levels] detects a blip at the edge your sensors Passive range. This isn't unusual, your traveling in a shipping lane and other ships are to be expected. The ship is approaching you.
- Now you have to ask yourself questions, such as:
--- What is the blip's speed?
--- Is the blip radiating sensor, transponder or communications signals? If not, why not? If so, what kind?
- If said ship is barreling at you at 4G [a speed almost NO merchant traffic is gonna travel at], you might have a pirate but it's just as likely to be a naval customs patrol catching up to you.
- If it's just plodding along at 1G it probably is a merchant, but you don't know if it definitely is until you get some more information.

- There are two basic ways to get more information. You can be patient and eventually your Passive sensors will resolve more data as the ships close distance, or you can choose to radiate... you can ping his transponder, send a radio message, or turn on your Active sensors and *ping* him like a submarine.
- Either way, eventually you'll find out if the approaching vessel is your old friend Cap'n Shuubanim and his Type A trader 'Hero Sandwich' and you both spend a half hour trading gossip as you pass each other, or it's a customs SDB who has an issue with your paperwork, or if it's the Dread Corsair 'Barky' Barghlroughl.

 

[WHULorigan]

Yes, I always admired the work of Bruce MacIntosh and Merrick Burkhardt, who actually worked with sensors in real life, and posted on the TML back in the day.

Their proposed sensor rules in the TNE/T4 era were outstanding, and quite user-friendly. In Bruce's "Definitive Sensor Rules" you essentially had a Target Signature number, a Sensor sensitivity number, a range factor and a table of modifiers.
Sensor sensitivity number minus Range factor plus Target Signature plus/minus any applicable modifiers gave you an overall Signal strength that you then converted on a chart into a task difficulty for the roleplaying system.

I have a copy of those rules on pdf somewhere...

I have never seen those rules, as do not believe I was ever on the TML. Do you think that one of you can dredge them up and post them somewhere?

 

[Sigtrygg]

You can find them by searching online for Marc Miller's Traveller Definitive Sensor Rules.

When I checked the folder and hard drive where I thought they were it was empty - must have been saved to a different computer. But I did find them again by searching as per above.

 

[wintertraveller]

Thanks for all of the great posts here. These responses are immensely helpful.

 

[Micky]

You can find them by searching online for Marc Miller's Traveller Definitive Sensor Rules.

When I checked the folder and hard drive where I thought they were it was empty - must have been saved to a different computer. But I did find them again by searching as per above.

thanks for sharing that... and see some other real goodies on that site. Love the Realistic Income article and also printed that out for the Traveller supplemental rules binder as well! What really is a Credit and its buying power outside of listed adventuring gear and weapons/armor.

 

[wintertraveller]

Are Reconnaissance Probes from p87 of the Element Cruisers book (ECC eBook) launched from missile racks like other missiles?

or​

Do Reconnaissance Probes emerge from a ship like other Drones found in High Guard (HG2022 p54 - Probe Drones, Mining Drones, or Repair Drones)?

Thanks

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Are Reconnaissance Probes from p87 of the Element Cruisers book (ECC eBook) launched from missile racks like other missiles?

As far as I understand the recon drone is a missile with the warhead changed to a sensor package.

I would launch them from standard missile racks.

All warships should have a missile rack to launch drones and a sandcaster (chaff).

 

[wintertraveller]

As far as I understand the recon drone is a missile with the warhead changed to a sensor package.

I would launch them from standard missile racks.

All warships should have a missile rack to launch drones and a sandcaster (chaff).

AnotherDilbert, thanks for your response. That makes sense. Cheers

 

[Condottiere]

Presumably, if capacity is twelve per tonne.