Library Data VS skill

[Jak Nazryth]

The standard software library data is basically an all purpose "catch-all" software for any kind of info... but what about worlds, ships, places, etc... not in the Imperium?

For instance... In Dungeons and Dragons, and other similar games, if a player encounters a monster, he must roll against his "dungeoneering", or "Survival" skill in order to be able to get bits about what the monster can do. If the player rolls well enough on his skill, he can look in the book and read all there is to know.

In traveller, what would be the appropriate roll, say for instance... knowing the performance characteristics of an Aslan war ship? Or a Vargr pirate ship? Can the players simply say...
"I consult the library data and bring up the deck plans and specifications"
Does that simple piece of software cover all published ships by mongoose for instance?
What about world information? The deeper you go into "not-Imperium" space, does it matter? Can a player simply take the appropriate alien supplement book, then read about the sub-sector and world description no matter what system, as long as it's published by Mongoose, is it automatically covered by the "Library Data" software?
Or would someone have to roll on their computer skill, while using the software, to gain access to the information with a variety of difficulty modifiers depending on how common or uncommon the ship/planet/culture the players are trying to review? What about research skill?

 

[phavoc]

Library data can provide you potentially useful data, such as performance characteristics. But it can be a double-edged sword as well when the data turns out to be completely wrong (i.e. the persons entering the data just would not believe what the reality was and put their own version of what they believe it "should" be).

But skill is much different than knowledge. Skill lets you use the knowledge in a useful way. Having the knowledge doesn't mean much if you can't put it to good use.

Scan data might give you basic knowledge of the enemy ship, but your tactics may change if they are entirely missile armed instead of the expected missile/laser mix that the library system gives you. And sure, I'd let the players assume that the library data is correct, and then when they board the other ship they get a nasty dose of reality - corridors that aren't on their maps, traps, different locations, etc.

World information, such as stellar class, orbits, and the like will be roughly accurate. Of course things change over time, sometimes catastrophically too. And TL's aren't static, though the way Traveller is written they kind of appear to be that way. A volcano could erupt, causing widespread climatic change, an asteroid struck another one and the resulting debris caused a great deal of damage. Things like that will change the data all the time. And if the world is outside of Imperial space, it may have wild variations in its accuracy. Not every ship is going to bother or be willing to upload the latest data into the Imperial datanet.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Thanx.
very soon they will be fighting and possibly boarding ships.
I just want to know how much they can know about an Alsan raider simply by consulting the library data, let them look at the deck plans from the books, or make them use their skills to glean knowledge?
soon after that they my follow bread crumbs and try to find the "elusive" system of Theeve.... or they can simply look at the big fold-out map... :roll:
That's what I'm trying to figure out. In the stuff I've read the pirate world of Theeve is supposadly very hard to find... and nobody is completely certain of it's whereabouts... or the players can simply look in the Alsan book and the map.

 

[Easterner]

Deck plans of Aliens are not likely available unless ships are old. Characters would need be given verbal descriptions if on board an Alien. That would be likely library failing.

 

[SSWarlock]

Keep in mind there's a difference between a civilian ship-board library and a military ship-board library. A military version will be as up-to-date as possible with ship class default deckplan layouts and all known deckplan/performance/weaponry variations. Military databases will also have any details specific to individual ships that would allow identification of the specific ships from sensor data and may even contain profiles on individual ship officers.

A civilian database may be limited to the equivalent of an old "Jane's Ships", if that.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Many ship designs in Traveller are old, Alien and Human alike. They have been tinkered with over the years.

Just consider how many deck plans exist for the Scout, Free Trader and Far Trader. Regional variations, earlier or later models.

A Traveller computer has vast storage capacity but is going to be out of date by in some cases decades. The information on a new design or configuration of ship may spread more slowly that the ship itself and those annual Library upgrades just cannot keep up.

Unless its a totaly alien design from far beyond Human space it will have been seen and recorded. "However". The details will almost certainly be wrong.

An Aslan 400Dton raider, shape and performance match it to a Tergarn class raider, 4 turrets, no small craft etc etc. When the players find it is launching fighters and has three turrets and a bay weapon they are a bit supprised. It may be a local change or just a design variation from a few years back that hasn't made the library yet.

In terms of skill. Ships generaly make sense internaly. Comparing the old library deck plans with the actual position of turrets, airlocks and hatches should give an engineer a fair guess at the new layout. The turrets will have access ways and generaly to corridors, cargo hatches lead to the cargo bay. Airlocks must connect to corridors and the main arilock generaly connects to an open area with room for arrivals.

GIve your players rough deck plans, then let them look at the sensor data and work from there. Remember that there may well be no exact plans for Aslan ships, if its based on quess work or the memories of a few hostages the deck plans of that Aslan raider in the library may look like scrawled pencil drawings (because they were :lol: )

In terms of that hard to find world. Very few people know where it is. Thats why the location on the map is fake. It could be empty space, it could be a system used as a trap for those seeking the world. Having seen an Aslan chart that says "Here be the hidden world" doesn't mean you have to let people find it :twisted:

 

[locarno24]

'Library data' is a standard traveller phrase, but it shouldn't be misconstrued. Just because something is in a traveller book in that section, not everyone's ship library software will contain that information.

Using Secrets of the Ancients as an example, there is a library entry for the mesonic rifle. I can assure you that a type-S standard library will not include refence to this. I can assure you that the Imperial Marines Armourer's College library does not include reference to this because it simply doesn't exist outside Ancient facilities. Nor will disintegrator pistols, shimmersuits, or anything like that.

Library data is there for you, the GM. What elements of it are available to the players is for you to determine.

Keep in mind there's a difference between a civilian ship-board library and a military ship-board library. A military version will be as up-to-date as possible with ship class default deckplan layouts and all known deckplan/performance/weaponry variations. Military databases will also have any details specific to individual ships that would allow identification of the specific ships from sensor data and may even contain profiles on individual ship officers.

I'd go with a 'book' deckplan being available for common ships - but remember (for example) that the Hierate is hardly a homogenous political or industrial entity; an Imperial ship is likely to be built to a common design but every major clan probably builds its warships slightly differantly. Also, with ships lasting decades or even centuries, the odds of a remodelling (at least of the noncritical deck areas like staterooms and cargo holds) are quite high). By all means, let them pull up a deck-plan for an Aslan raider captured by the imperial navy ten years ago. If they rely purely on that plan rather than having any matching skills, or the sense to do a proper scan, send in drones, or whatever, then feel no hesitation in presenting them with a locked iris hatch where there shouldn't be one.

At the very least, I'd make you use computer skill to find useful information.

For any world that's visited openly (i.e. not Theev), I'd imagine it won't be hard to get hold of a set of Trade Codes. But that reduces the 'law level' to one digit. What it won't tell you is subtleties - like the fact that the law level is nearly twice that for biochem and implants, for example. Nor will law enforcement subtleties be included without someone with a relevant skill.

For example - there are some countries where if a police officer asks for help, you are automatically deputized by the fact of him doing that, and failing to assist is a criminal offence. Go back far enough, and you had 'hue and cry' laws in some countries where the same applies if someone yells 'stop! thief!' and you don't join the pursuit. Not knowing that could land you in a lot of hot water if you're on a world where that applies.


With regards to Theev on the map, yes, I'd leave it there. Someone can see where it is, and it's easier than trying to obliterate it from the map. The big difference? Theev is believed to be somewhere in that hex, based on the operational ranges and travel times of raiders known to operate from there.

That hex is a bloody parsec across, and I don't know if Theev's star is anything more substantial than a brown dwarf, or, worse, just a rogue jovian. If you were capable of doing 6G, going from side to side - assuming you wanted to stop at the other end - would take about a year and a half. Simply knowing Theev is inside that area is like knowing the name of a village that's 'somewhere in China'. If you can't plot a jump accurately enough to land with a position and vector that lets you reach orbit in a couple of weeks, you can't get there. I can assure you a place like Theev won't have big navigation beacons blaring off into space.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I recall role playing that at each and every port we would gather new library data; especially for the systems in the direction we are traveling. More local information is gathered after jumping, while traveling in from outside 100d. The amount of information that can be rapidly downloaded at a world with decent tech is enormous. Entire public libraries/databases. Utilizing "web crawling" techniques.

Now we pretty much assume that readily available public information is at the characters fingertips and sometimes roll for things that might need a little digging to find out.

Systems should know a bit about their neighbor. Even if these worlds are so low tech and insignificant that there is no communication between them, some prior traveler has probably passed through and at least spread a few rumors at the local trading post or watering hole.

Of course travelers may receive false info. Maybe a system doesn't want the few merchants who come through taking their business elsewhere and say their neighboring system is a bunch of religious zealots that don't allow any contact with offworlders.

I'd think any mass produced civilian design is readily available - even in "foreign waters".

Size and general energy signatures would be known for any military ship unless it's top secret and never been seen by the outside world. General performance, armament and more would be known for any military ship if it has ever been used in combat. On a good roll for information gathering, perhaps one of the ships was crippled and captured and full deck plans and detailed equipment specs are known.

As always, it's never a simple "It's this way every time" and the GM is free to do what they wish.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I know the blank sub-sector maps exist, but does anyone know of an entire blank sector map? Then I could print on large scale paper, filling out the larger systems they might have in their library date, and some systems that only have a couple of notes, maybe even a designation number as apposed to a name, keeping the "real" map for my eyes only.

 

[Rusty_Unycorn]

I know the blank sub-sector maps exist, but does anyone know of an entire blank sector map? Then I could print on large scale paper, filling out the larger systems they might have in their library date, and some systems that only have a couple of notes, maybe even a designation number as apposed to a name, keeping the "real" map for my eyes only.

Not that I know of. I found a blank domain map... My suggestion is that you make your map first and then make a player map that shows the systems that they know of.
Of course, they could pay the locals for a map, but who knows what they leave off of those...