Level 20 builds

[Clovenhoof]

Hey guys,

damn, I had written a rather long post, and when I wanted to submit it, the board claimed I was not logged in and everything was lost. :evil:

Anyway, I wanted to ask you what kidn of character build you'd like to play up to level 20 and keep playing even then. I'm just thinking, several classes get their single best ability only around max level, and it would be a shame not to put that to good use.

So, single- or multiclassed, share your builds and what you like about them. =)
I'm going to re-type my first sample build later on, right now my brain is still in a weird echo mode and it feels like I'm repeating myself.

 

[Spectator]

No Brainer...
Am ass whooping scholar level 20, Hyborian background for the bonus feats.

 

[Scorpion13]

Sorceror, level 20, Acheronian.

Oh, the sweet, sweet mayhem...

 

[Clovenhoof]

Bah, treacherous magic users.

Starting out with a Barbarian (Cimmerian of course), I used to consider it a no-brainer to take him all the way to Brb20. Now I'm not so sure anymore. The Barb's high-level benefits are nice at first glance, but upon closer inspection, some lose their shine pretty quickly.

So my latest idea was to go for Brb15/Nmd5, taking the levels pretty much in that order.

You'd lose:
- Unconquerable (a pity, but should be manageable)
- Wheel of Death (but who needs an extra attack when you have Great Cleave?)
- Versatility IV (not really worth waiting for it, as crits are still too unreliable)
- 2 points of DR (okay, that's a real pity)

But you'd gain:
- Skill Focus: Survival (a minor boon, but a boon)
- Favoured Terrain, and the +10 Movement bonus that comes with it
- Toughness: +10HP
- Nomad Charge +1 (also a minor boon)
- a Bonus Feat (always good to have)
- Mounted Mobility (and the reason why I want those 5 Nomad levels)

And with the Variant Rule in HFiercest, you might swap Bite Sword for Fleet Mount, a great feat as far as I can tell (although you will only benefit from it much later in your career)

The idea of this build is to make him a great leader of men, so he can gather a company of riders around him and conquer the earth with them (and not need to dismount to fight).

Over the course of the career, I think the following feats should be fine:
Eyes of the Cat, Sleep Mastery, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave; Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Leadership.
(Edit: I just realized Improved Initiative is missing there. That should definitely find its way in somehow)

And if you don't want Spirited Charge, you actually don't need Ride By Attack either, as Mounted Mobility is even better (Double Move and Full Attack without AoOs)

 

[librarycharlie]

1st level noble, nineteenth level soldier.

Use the starting cash from noble to buy some sweet armor.
Use spawn of dagoth hill, and every soldier feat and bonus feat to add the "Hard" feat, which gives you +1DR for each time you take it.

Final DR 20+

GM: "He crits you with a huge axe for 26."
Player: "Yawn, I take one again."

/would never actually play this


Something I might consider:
20th level Borderer specializing in "Hide"
You can "hide in plain sight" in the environment of your choosing. Select "Melee Combat" as your terrain.

 

[Clovenhoof]

1st level noble, nineteenth level soldier.

Use the starting cash from noble to buy some sweet armor.

*snip*

Hey Charlie, we're talking playable builds here, not twinks. ^^ I for one would never ever allow a SoDH player character. And if I remember the template correctly, it's not meant for PCs at all.
Anyway.

Select "Melee Combat" as your terrain.

Can you actually do that? Is that a 2nd Ed rule? I thought you could only pick a terrain type (like Forest etc) or a region (like "Bossonia" or whatever).

 

[Style]

It's nice that in Conan you can discuss a level 20 build without having to factor in magic items. I remember the epic D&D game I played in. Creating the PCs took about 30 to 45 minutes. Selecting magic items took hours. And they made you go back and reconsider the work you'd already done creating your character.

Sorry for the interruption, continue.

 

[Scorpion13]

I would imagine that even without magic items, it might still take a long time. I love Conan, and the system itself is great, but trying to manage all those skill points is taxing on my brain.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Indeed, not having to bother about items really saves you a headache. BTW I always stunk at that in D&D, never really knew what to take.

As for the skill points, well, you'll need a bit of planning. My intention for this thread is not to write up ready-made characters, but to plan a build that you actually play all the way through. So you'd level up 19 times over the course of a campaign and distribute your skill points on the fly.

However, you need to keep in mind what skills you're gonna need at which levels, for example as Feat or Spell prereqs.
In the case of my Barb-Nomad, he's going to need Ride very late in his career, so he can leave the skill rather low for a long time and then dump everything into Ride on high levels to max it out.

If you want to write up a ready-made build for level 20 however, it is going to get a bit annoying because you have to keep the Int boosts in mind, know which class you'd take at which level, and distribute the points with the respective maxima in mind (i.e. ranks for class skills, though with high Int you can pretty much ignore this due to the bonus skill rule).

 

[Style]

If you want to write up a ready-made build for level 20 however, it is going to get a bit annoying because you have to keep the Int boosts in mind, know which class you'd take at which level, and distribute the points with the respective maxima in mind (i.e. ranks for class skills, though with high Int you can pretty much ignore this due to the bonus skill rule).

There are spreadsheets (like heroforge) that take everything into account, including things like what level you had that int bump, what level you picked up those skill ranks, and make the process much easier.

 

[Krushnak]

I run conan so havent gotten a chance to play it yet but theres two characters i'd like to play.

Nordheimir barbarian/pirate going for something like 5-6 levels in pirate and the rest in barbarian, focusing on dual wielding and carry spares in my mouth.

Zingaran noble/soldier 4 levels of soldier for wpn spec arming sword and the rest in noble with zingaran fencing, intricate swordplay and all that.

I love Conan, and the system itself is great, but trying to manage all those skill points is taxing on my brain.

when i make high lvl characters for conan as npcs or as my characters in other d20 games i find it best to work through it one level at a time and if you have any idea of what you want to take it goes pretty quickly.

 

[Majestic7]

I have a feeling that I will never have a chance to play Conan, only to GM it... however, if I had a chance to play, two character concepts might be interesting depending on the campaign.

First, a gentleman archaeologist and a tomb robber. He would only sell the portion of the loot he'd absolutely have to and keep all the old stuff he could. I'd imagine a Hyborian Scholar/Thief, something like 12 levels of Scholar and eight Thief. Perhaps few levels of Noble too and only six at Thief depending on the exact nature of the character. No sorcery at all, unless the campaign turned in to a direction where the characters personality would turn towards interest in magic. No idea about feats, but he would be a stealthy, crafty type with maxed out knowledge skills in History and Religion. Perhaps a Nemedian skeptic who likes to find interesting ruins of old temples, steal their valuables and keep them as a reminder of the silly old beliefs.

Second, for a more action-orientated campaign, a Darfar cannibal. Either pure Barbarian or maximum of five Scholar levels for little mystical dabbling - mainly thinking about Shamanic Ecstasy and little Nature magic here. Spirit-Eater feats from S&P together with Power Attack, a big blunt weapon and Skill Focus (Cooking). Perhaps Improved Grapple on the side. Sharpened teeth, wild eyes and a delusion that by eating hearts of a ten thousand enemies slain in battle one can become immortal. Yum yum!

I have to say that creating high-level characters is rather boring - playing those characters to the high levels and taking feats, levels and other stuff based on what you've been through instead of just aiming for some spesific effect and goal is much more fun.

 

[Clovenhoof]

@Krushnak: 6 levels Pirate sounds good. +2d6 Sneak Attack and better bonus and saves progression.

@Majestic:
I like that Indiana Jones idea. ^^ I'd suggest to at least take Counterspells, you never know what kind of magical safeguards those ancient places might hold.

 

[Style]

@Majestic:
I like that Indiana Jones idea. ^^ I'd suggest to at least take Counterspells, you never know what kind of magical safeguards those ancient places might hold.

My first thought was professor from Miskatonic University, but you're right, that does sound a little more like Indiana.

 

[Ichabod]

Highly campaign dependent. With this crew, I think my preference would be:

Thief/Scholar/Barbarian - 12/4/4, INT 18 at first level

Choose skill mastery twice for special abilities. Take first sorcery style in something with a good defensive blast and then take prestidigitation. Barbarian is just better than Pirate for Fearless and because Endurance is hugely useful with our group, nevermind the better BAB and the lack of need for more SA given the Thief base.

Probably start with 4 levels of thief to ramp up to 3d8 SA as quickly as possible, then one level of Barbarian for the saves, 2w and 2h fighting, then one level of scholar for the trickeration, then either B to get to the second attack and Uncanny Dodge or back to T to get up to skill mastery sooner. Of course, delaying Uncanny Dodge is painful, but whatever.

I actually can't get that excited by say a 4/16 T/S as I don't particularly like magic using characters. I'm much more into special abilities, but other than skill mastery, the T ones just don't float my boat. 4/16 T/B would be the combat way to go, but I don't particularly like combat characters either. Some sort of 4/4/4/4/4 character would be more my style if there were other classes that were worth playing. I did build a Wastrel NPC (H's Fallen) as that seemed not too wasteful, though the particular build was ludicrous as I way overloaded the character with combat options to where it was paralyzing to figure out which combat tactics to use. More than 12 T levels is not necessary given that you should nuke anything you SA by T9 and there's nothing unique besides special abilities at higher levels.

While I wouldn't want to play a Hyborian, under the RAW, I would just to not get screwed out of feats since so few races favor T. Also, would play a Hyborian to take K: Zingaran Fencing School with Adaptability for the flexibility in where to pile ranks each level.

Of course, I'd much rather play up to about 12th level and then reboot then ever slog through to 20th.

 

[Majestic7]

@Majestic:
I like that Indiana Jones idea. ^^ I'd suggest to at least take Counterspells, you never know what kind of magical safeguards those ancient places might hold.

My first thought was professor from Miskatonic University, but you're right, that does sound a little more like Indiana.

Indiana Jones would be more like a Scholar/Borderer/Thief/Tempter (for that Whip proficiency, hehe) with Leadership for ever-changing cohort sidekicks.

 

[librarycharlie]

1st level noble, nineteenth level soldier.

Use the starting cash from noble to buy some sweet armor.

*snip*

Hey Charlie, we're talking playable builds here, not twinks. ^^ I for one would never ever allow a SoDH player character. And if I remember the template correctly, it's not meant for PCs at all.
Anyway.

Like I said, I'd never play it. Some of the players in my own campaign however... One of them has a dodge of ~40 when on a ship. True story. No magic items or major feat-breaking involved. Just high dex, class bonuses, etc.

Select "Melee Combat" as your terrain.

Can you actually do that? Is that a 2nd Ed rule? I thought you could only pick a terrain type (like Forest etc) or a region (like "Bossonia" or whatever).

Only if your GM is a goofball can you take it. There is an argument, however, if you're a third level soldier with a "formation" style, that you might connect your training in the two fields and use the style (light infantry, for example) as a "terrain" when surrounded by the proper allies.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Like I said, I'd never play it. Some of the players in my own campaign however... One of them has a dodge of ~40 when on a ship.

At what level? I could imagine getting to that value around level 16: Base 10 + Class 12 + Seamanship 4 + Dodge 1 + Dex 8 + Combat Expertise 5 = 40, resulting in a rather poor attack bonus however.
A Soldier can get to the same Parry Defense simply by using a Shield which replaces the Seamanship bonus.

Only if your GM is a goofball can you take it.

Lol okay, I see. That's a No then.
I'm not sure about the Borderer-Soldier Mix, I guess applying a formation as Favoured Terrain might be allowed, but I don't see much relevance for the game. Formations seem useful only for NPCs, as a player group is unlikely to all take Sdr3 just to enable the Borderer to Hide in Plain Sight (which is what the whole idea was about).
Maybe with the Leadership feat, but then I still don't quite see the benefit of hiding among a bunch of lowlevel followers.

 

[Krushnak]

formations seem useful only for NPCs, as a player group is unlikely to all take Sdr3

not in 2nd ed, soldiers now get the officer class ability that allows them to share their formation with a number of extras equal to 1 +int mod. and theres an extra formation that gives a bonus to fort and will which would always be handy.

 

[Valgrim Bragisson]

1. Hyborian Noble 9/Scholar 11

2. Barbarian 12/Soldiar 5/Borderer 3

3. Thief 20