Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
ParanoidGamer said:
Let's keep these things straight:
The game mechanics are "Traveller".
The Setting is the "Original Traveller Universe or OTU".
Canon only applies to the Setting, not to the Rules.
Let's just call it "Traveller", shall we?
- Thread starter EDG
- Start date
Let's keep these things straight:
The game mechanics are "Traveller".
The Setting is the "Original Traveller Universe or OTU".
Canon only applies to the Setting, not to the Rules.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Sturn said:
Agreed.
Otherwise, why not ? I'm of the opinion that MGT is pretty much a direct update of CT, which always was I meant when I said traveller anyhow.
I'm hoping two things though:
1. that we can just deal with it on that level, that of encouraging clarity , without making it a sign of allegance to the "old grognards are old farts and must be pushed aside" faction. Grognards are customers, too.
2. We don't develop a new correctness police in the community...I mean, we canonistas are bad enough......
far-trader
Mongoose
captainjack23 said:
Too right
A
Anonymous
Guest
As ive said before it makes sense for me, so I agree.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
far-trader said:captainjack23 said:
Too right
.....which part ? 8)
Yep, the idea is that basically where we don't need to specify that we're talking about the Mongoose edition, just call it "Traveller".
I think on say the SJG forum it's not so much of a problem, because you're probably going to be referring to the GT books by name there anyway (e.g. First In, Far Trader etc)
As for the canon thing, I'd love it if the new Spinward Marches was the new canon and everything else before it could be ignored, and I'd support that in a heartbeat. But unfortunately it's up to Marc to decide that, not us.
I think on say the SJG forum it's not so much of a problem, because you're probably going to be referring to the GT books by name there anyway (e.g. First In, Far Trader etc)
As for the canon thing, I'd love it if the new Spinward Marches was the new canon and everything else before it could be ignored, and I'd support that in a heartbeat. But unfortunately it's up to Marc to decide that, not us.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
I've been calling it simply 'Traveller' for ages now. If people want to talk about the history of the game, that's one thing, but for the most part they don't really. Most people just play the game they see in front of them, and for most Traveller players, currently, that game is the Mongoose publication.
far-trader
Mongoose
dafrca said:For myself, I would agree with both parts. :wink:captainjack23 said:far-trader said:Too right
.....which part ? 8)
Daniel
:lol: Yeah, both.
far-trader
Mongoose
TrippyHippy said:
Not saying it isn't so but I dislike blanket statements of fact without evidence.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Official surveys by the International DBO/Citrus Fruit Group, in Downtown LA, Californ-i-A, have provided conclusive and compelling statistical evidence, to a high degree of significance, that I am, ipso facto, the Word of God (at least on a pro rata basis). 8 out of 10 cats agree. The other two were shot.
far-trader
Mongoose
EDG said:
Which won't be the case on say CotI when talking about High Guard, Mercenary, etc...
...
I still think the idea adds confusion and little else*, but give it a whirl, maybe it'll catch on.
* maybe some continuity, which seems to be the idea of naming the RTT supplements for the same Traveller (sans Classic if you please
) supplements.
far-trader
Mongoose
TrippyHippy said:
Hey, can't argue with polling like that.
:lol:
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
EDG said:
Well, lack of evidence does not equal evidence of a lack - and, IIRC, you started with the premise that the Old guard were a trivial concern, so properly, you have the burden of proof...
But lets see what we can do, anyway......Round here, at least its split about 50/50 -buyers seem to be either old time traveller players (started with some version of CT) or new to the whole thing (discussion with the asst mngr of my FLGS plus other gamers I know who aren't regulars there) .
Interestingly, very few people started with T4 or MT; a few more with TNE. And quite a few had never played beyond CT. If there was a failure to expand the audience, I suspect it was with MGT and T4; and possibly TNE's gains were offset by losses. I think that MGT success thus far may be due to its hewing closely to CT; possibly the retro look, despite initial skepticism from some, also may have helped.
Plus, how many here are old traveller players who have bought it vs first time buyers ? A flawed sample on the MGT boards, I admit, but interesting.
far-trader
Mongoose
EDG said:Huh. I only actually just got the RTT reference... I just realised I'd been confusing it all this time with "Tikki Tikki Tembo"
Obviously true for you from your posts I'd say, and I don't think anybody will fault you for the optimism
I just like the alliteration and literary roots of Riki Tiki Travi
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
I agree, but for me they are intertwined... The core Traveller Rules are made for a Sci-Fi game based in the Official Traveller Universe and so in many ways if you discuss one you are also discussing the other.Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
If you're playing another genre with the Traveller OGL, then specify that (Fantasy Travelly, Spy Traveller, etc). If you are using the Rules for a diff setting, then specify (My ATU, My Traveller Campaign, etc). Plain and simple.
The internet's a poor sample of anything really - there's lots of gamers out there who don't care enough about a game to want to sign up for discussion boards about it.
And of course nobody actually has actually done a proper market survey of who buys what in Traveller - it could be mostly old guard, it could be mostly new folks, but nobody knows. We don't even know for sure how many people buy it to play it or buy it to collect it. But I've seen just as many people claim that the old fans are the most important market as people claiming that the new folks are, so there's "blanket statements of fact without evidence" flying around from all sides about the subject.
I can't really imagine that the 'old guard' can be that important though in terms of sales. I think most are probably happy with whatever system they've cobbled together over the years, and aren't really in the market for anything new (some might be though, but are they enough to be significant? I don't know). And sure, there's people who apparently have money to blow on everything Traveller related, but I don't think they're a significant percentage of the sales either. And I can't see how they'd be the ones most likely to get anyone else into the game either if all they do is collect books and talk about it on forums. All just opinion, of course.
I also think a lot of the 'old guard' still mistakenly give themselves too much credit for what happened to GDW after TNE. The ruckus they made over that wasn't what brought GDW down, it was a whole bunch of other market forces that did that (this is on record from Loren Wiseman and has been supported by David Nilsen, who were both at GDW at the time). So if the logic is that the 'old guard' brought down a company once before when they didn't like what they did and thus may be able to do it again here if they walk away from Mongoose, I don't think it'll actually work out how they expect at all.
And of course nobody actually has actually done a proper market survey of who buys what in Traveller - it could be mostly old guard, it could be mostly new folks, but nobody knows. We don't even know for sure how many people buy it to play it or buy it to collect it. But I've seen just as many people claim that the old fans are the most important market as people claiming that the new folks are, so there's "blanket statements of fact without evidence" flying around from all sides about the subject.
I can't really imagine that the 'old guard' can be that important though in terms of sales. I think most are probably happy with whatever system they've cobbled together over the years, and aren't really in the market for anything new (some might be though, but are they enough to be significant? I don't know). And sure, there's people who apparently have money to blow on everything Traveller related, but I don't think they're a significant percentage of the sales either. And I can't see how they'd be the ones most likely to get anyone else into the game either if all they do is collect books and talk about it on forums. All just opinion, of course.
I also think a lot of the 'old guard' still mistakenly give themselves too much credit for what happened to GDW after TNE. The ruckus they made over that wasn't what brought GDW down, it was a whole bunch of other market forces that did that (this is on record from Loren Wiseman and has been supported by David Nilsen, who were both at GDW at the time). So if the logic is that the 'old guard' brought down a company once before when they didn't like what they did and thus may be able to do it again here if they walk away from Mongoose, I don't think it'll actually work out how they expect at all.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
EDG said:
That lot didn't bring down GDW, but they did nearly destroy the online community around Traveller. The timely arrival of the World Wide Web ultimately allowed the community to route around the damage (as the internet is known to do) as it were, but there are reasons the TNE fans keep largely to themselves online, even now.
MGT is not my "little red book", though that seems to be the way the wind is blowing in this thread. The idea of foregoing a simple act of clarification is strange to this old technical writer.
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
I'm in.
The current version has already, I'm sure, outsold all previous edition core books (with the only possible exceptions being CT and GT, and I'm doubtful of GT) and the rate at which it sold had to have beaten everyone thus far by miles. With it being OGL, its going to have plenty of support. And considering that this is the first version of Traveller I've ever owned, I'm happy to refer to Mongoose's version as "Traveller".
The current version has already, I'm sure, outsold all previous edition core books (with the only possible exceptions being CT and GT, and I'm doubtful of GT) and the rate at which it sold had to have beaten everyone thus far by miles. With it being OGL, its going to have plenty of support. And considering that this is the first version of Traveller I've ever owned, I'm happy to refer to Mongoose's version as "Traveller".
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