League Of non aligned worlds

[Da Boss]

How about having ALL of these options:

AOL - similar to presently in P+P preview/test,

Dilgar war list - nick the one for the Dilgar war tourney and allow Early years EA as upto 1 FAP ally?

League- may have 1FAP of allies (+1 per ship in the fleet of the "Primary" race with the Command trait - to represent the beter laision ability) OR upto 1FAP of ISA allies.

Probably need a couple more Command ships but thats no bad thing..............

or just keep it as is :wink:

re wider allied fleets - again can be fun (I have the Army of Darkness and Army of Light rule in DR) but need to let everyone be able to do it or have a similar option else it could be come unbalanced.

for example we had a long discussion about allowing 2 players in a campaign to have a joint Minbari / Vorlon fleet so they could both use the ships they had bought and so one player could teach the other.

However (rightly I feel) we decided it was just too powerful a combination wiothout allowing others to do the same.................but then again........

a Series of campaign /Era allies rules would be quite an interesting addiiton to P+P however? for example:

Narn+Drazi Fleet of Retribution vs Centauri (I think that would be fairly fair?)

Psi Corps + Shadows vs ISA + Minbari (+EA?)

(representing Psi Corps finding "lost" shadow ships and activating them and the "Guardians of Light" going after them)

You could allow any and all races to have 1 FAP of Raiders allies?

anyway just fun ideas -

 

[Davesaint]

How about having ALL of these options:

AOL - similar to presently in P+P preview/test,

Dilgar war list - nick the one for the Dilgar war tourney and allow Early years EA as upto 1 FAP ally?

League- may have 1FAP of allies (+1 per ship in the fleet of the "Primary" race with the Command trait - to represent the beter laision ability) OR upto 1FAP of ISA allies.

Probably need a couple more Command ships but thats no bad thing..............

or just keep it as is :wink:

re wider allied fleets - again can be fun (I have the Army of Darkness and Army of Light rule in DR) but need to let everyone be able to do it or have a similar option else it could be come unbalanced.

for example we had a long discussion about allowing 2 players in a campaign to have a joint Minbari / Vorlon fleet so they could both use the ships they had bought and so one player could teach the other.

However (rightly I feel) we decided it was just too powerful a combination wiothout allowing others to do the same.................but then again........

a Series of campaign /Era allies rules would be quite an interesting addiiton to P+P however? for example:

Narn+Drazi Fleet of Retribution vs Centauri (I think that would be fairly fair?)

Psi Corps + Shadows vs ISA + Minbari (+EA?)

(representing Psi Corps finding "lost" shadow ships and activating them and the "Guardians of Light" going after them)

You could allow any and all races to have 1 FAP of Raiders allies?

anyway just fun ideas -

So I guess you couldn't have the Pak as your primary race since they don't have command.........

Seriously, this whole crusade against the league is just silly. They are no more powerful than any other of the major races.


Dave

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Seriously, this whole crusade against the league is just silly. They are no more powerful than any other of the major races.

I agree with you there. The league may have many options but so do some other races. They all have their powerful ships its just that some people decide to take what they please to counteract a weakness of their fleet. This i feel takes away from the flavour of some fleets.

 

[Da Boss]

So I guess you couldn't have the Pak as your primary race since they don't have command.........

Seriously, this whole crusade against the league is just silly. They are no more powerful than any other of the major races.

Dave

I did suggest they/ others get a command ship :wink: (a Pak style one) ..............also as I said I don't have strong feelings about nerfing them at the moment..........my last option was just keep as is.

I thnik the main perception of the problem stemmed from the Gaim really?

 

[H]

obviously it's highly dependant upon your league race too. The Brakiri for example have 2 good carriers, an average interceptor, but good bombers, a good antifighter ship, a great sniper, and mine support, as well as the brutal corumai. This means the barkiri can pretty much stand on their own and be competitive. conversely, the Drazi are pretty much one trick, and really benefit from allies.

 

[Silvereye]

What about if the game is 1 Armageddon or 2 War?

In a campaign you cannot roll 1 Arm and 2 War would only occur as a massive Blockade Run. These would likely be friendly or tournament games, so they can be organised however the players/organisers see fit. As an example, how about 1 Arm (or the 2 War) is split into 1 War (all one race) and 2 Battle (1 Battle each for 2 other league races).

Campaign wise, your initial fleet would have to meet the requirements. Should you wish to recruit a 'new' league race into your fleet, you'd have to buy at least a complete Battle* point to receive them as reinforcements. Scenario fleets could be made up of any parts of the roster as usual.
[*] Or whatever PL the campaign rosters were built from.

 

[Triggy]

I think he is just talking about 3 generations of fleets.
League - pretty much as it is now probably with the removal of ships after a certain date(representing the lack of crusade level technology at this time).
AOL - A specific listing of ships with a few Whitestars mixed in.
ISA - Now that the league is part of the ISA you can use league ships according to the ISA allies rules

I think it works actually, you can still have your league fleet (especially if you ignore ISD) but you won't have access to all the crusade era technology.

Its basically covering the evolution of the league fleet, and I doubt everyone will just take the later list otherwise everyone would already be playing ISA. Plus the regular League option would have a larger variety of ships then the ISA would (as the ISA is limited to one ally at a time, no such restriction for the League)

AOL may not get used a whole lot it depends on its final fleet list I suppose, its an interesting idea though.

This would be the approach I would take.

League with a couple of ships removed (ISD based) and/or initiative penalties for certain ship mixes.
AoL pretty much as the playtest rules state (without the Centauri but with the Drazi Warbird/Strikehawk/Sky Serpent).
ISA pretty much as they currently are (maybe with an initiative penalty for allies)

 

[Da Boss]

I like and previously suggested similar - hope it goes through

 

[JTL109]

So I guess you couldn't have the Pak as your primary race since they don't have command.........

Seriously, this whole crusade against the league is just silly. They are no more powerful than any other of the major races.


Dave

------
Even the best of the League fleets combined, is at best, a second to
third rate fleet. I have not seen anyone post the undeatable League
fleet list your, this challenge occured earlier in this thread.

 

[waterproofla]

If there are documented such instances outside of the Army of Light times, please let me know; here, I speak from ignorance.

Well, there's the time they blockaded B5 because they wanted to execute Jha'dur (Deathwalker).

Sorry, can't make the quote feature work.

 

[Target]

I like Ripple's suggestion of allowing combinations in a campaign. The Centauri might choose to fight for their own glory or ask the Shadows to do some dirty work for them; the Drakh might choose to do their own fighting or command their minions to do it; ditto the Shadows and the Drakh. You probably wouldn't get all three in one campaign, but you could take your choice of two out of the three for the whole campaign, then decide which of the two will fight the next battle.

Our version of the campaign, you can get command points which can then be used for all sort of useful things , like rerolls, jumping further into the enemy territory. Gettin Minbari to attack them losing control of the sector, Dilgar to plantery assault them & destroy installations they get +1 pt than normal or jumping a shadow ship into someone elses battle & generally stuffing both players.
We have sectors which has planets/asteriods that have a number. They total up to amount of insatllations/population on them. We can bulid Population , Farms (food to bulid pop), Mines (best on asteriods, big things need minerals), Industry (buliding ships) & command/naval bases. they best in enemy territory has the work way better- command points are hard to get. The priority of the battles creep up the more battles for that sector. Starts at patrol except in homeworlds which start higher.
We have lots of colour pins everywhere.
We have got in so not everyone has to be present for the campaign to continue. Thats very handy

 

[Da Boss]

If there are documented such instances outside of the Army of Light times, please let me know; here, I speak from ignorance.

Well, there's the time they blockaded B5 because they wanted to execute Jha'dur (Deathwalker).

Sorry, can't make the quote feature work.

IIRC they did not act as a league then - ships from various races arrived (Drazi, Ispha and Vree? ) and demanded they be turned over to them individually..........in fact B5 got them to waste time by arguing over who had the best claim...............

 

[waterproofla]

in fact B5 got them to waste time by arguing over who had the best claim...............

Ha! Yeah, I had forgotten about that.

Maybe new special action :lol:

INCITE SQUABLING- Relations among League members are famously contentious. Given the mutual suspicion, animosity, and outright racism present amoung the various factions, combining their ships and officers into a unified squadron and selecting a fleet commander is especially contentious, since each combinied squadron has to be approved and organized by an act of the League Council. When parlaimentary order dissolves into cries of "I will be dead before I trust the fate of my race in the hands of a Drazi!", "Never trust a Brakiri!", "We will not put our fighting men under a probing pervert of a Vree!", "an Abbai?! What will she do, TALK the Centauri to death?!", and "Well, I don't take orders from someone who smells as bad as you! What is that in your cilia, a dead cat?" sometimes the only solution is to draw lots to select a fleet commander, or have each captain take it in turns to be commander that day/week. This naturally does not lead to trust in the command structure, and clever opponents have been known to send messages inciting squabbling among a League squadron, questioning the motives and playing on the prides, fears, and prejudices of the members. This can lead to a command collapse as the squadron commander attempts to reassert his authority and get the squadron to work together again. This momentary indecision has been fatal to many a League fleet.

Any ship with a Command rating may upon a successful opposed crew quality check versus the League ship with the highest command rating (League player gets plus one for each additional Command ship he has) incite an argument among the League fleet. The League player automatically loses the initiative roll next turn.

 

[Cavalier1645]

I say keep the league, The Big 4 (Earth, Minbari, Centauri, Narn) need some minor races to conquer and intimidate.lol

 

[Ripple]

keep in mind folks... lots of real world allies squabble over air space use... basing rights... status of forces agreements... hardly evidence of a lack of cooperation.

Ripple

 

[Foxmeister]

keep in mind folks... lots of real world allies squabble over air space use... basing rights... status of forces agreements... hardly evidence of a lack of cooperation.

Careful! With all this talk of the real world, we'll be looking at a "Blue on Blue" special rule for the League!

Regards,

Dave

 

[JTL109]

I say keep the league, The Big 4 (Earth, Minbari, Centauri, Narn) need some minor races to conquer and intimidate.lol

----------
It is unfortunite to say, but too many times I get the feeling that
the crusade against the league is based on the desire to maintain
a series of fleet that are just easy wins for those that are into
the power fleets. Keeping the league down is just a way to
make certain that they will not have difficult games.

 

[katadder]

well i am against combined league these days and I play pure vree and abbai fleets and my opponents would not say these are easy games for them mainly as they have yet to beat either although its been close.

 

[Da Boss]

I am happy for the League to continue pretty much as is...............

although I would like to see an AOL list and a Dilgar war list as well.................

 

[Triggy]

The big plan is hopefully for a League fleet restricted to 2259 and before, AoL roughly as is in the playtest pack for 2259-2261 and ISA for 2262 onwards.

There is certainly no bias to make any fleet worse than any other (apart from possibly the Raiders fleet).

As for a Dilgar War era League fleet, I think this could well happen but would be part of a Dilgar War supplement rather than the P&P article.