Laboratory vs Scientific Toolkits

[cometyo]

Hi,

Does anyone have any insight into the practical relationship between a Scientific Toolkit and a Laboratory, particularly how they would impact outcomes in a game?

High Guard refers to the scientific toolkits in its description of a laboratory, suggesting that they overlap somehow, but that's it. The stated cost of equipping a lab is way more expensive than the given cost of a kit, so it's not about equipping the lab. Rules for scientific toolkits don't refer to labs at all.

Scientific toolkits provide DMs for scientific tasks, but labs do not. It looks to me that toolkits and labs were designed under different, implied assumptions.

These are my interpretations:

• Scientific toolkits are kind of like "portable labs" used in the field for sample collection and on-the-spot-analysis that helps characters solve immediate problems or helps them draw an incremental conclusion that gets them further along in their adventure. Hence the given DMs.
• Laboratories provide the same benefit as scientific toolkits, but they also represent the more formal, abstract, hand-wavy work that isn't really gamed out but is necessary for characters to do the work that leads to big-picture conclusions that impact the overall campaign, or to put all the info together in way that is useful to their patron, or to publish their work and thereby raise their profile (and their fees). Labs would also allow characters to create small batches of a novel chemical, or construct one-off research equipment, or do other things not possible in the field. But those are all expository outcomes and a bit unsatisfying.

What are some other ideas as to what a laboratory really does?

 

[Limpin Legin]

Toolkits - means of measuring things, extracting data etc, either experimentally or routinely.
Laboratories - provide a controlled environment where the fruits of an experiment may be clearly observed. May include other researcher aids such as documenting, journaling, reporting and presenting.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Ideally, Laboratories should be specialized, just like Toolkits. A Physics Lab is way different than an Autopsy Lab. The cost can be the same for all of them, just treat them all as specialized for one field of study. Then give the shipboard labs the same bonus as the toolkit.

 

[cometyo]

Thanks for the response. So one way to look at it would be characters using toolkits in the field would be limited to collecting data and drawing uncertain (and potentially dangerous) conclusions without a lab. And a lab is just a very expensive room if it doesn't have people in the field using toolkits to collect data?

What's an example of a satisfying, high-stakes task that could be rolled in a lab? Maybe something like: "We need something that will take down that 100-tonne predator that's invulnerable to our weapons and has been picking off members of our survey team one by one. I used the lab to roll an uncertain, Formidable task to synthesize a version of that toxin we collected planetside from a flesh-eating invertebrate. It will either disintegrate the monster from the inside or will trigger an enormous burst of murderous aggression from it; I'm not sure which. Who wants to put it in a dart gun and give it a go?"

 

[cometyo]

Ideally, Laboratories should be specialized, just like Toolkits. A Physics Lab is way different than an Autopsy Lab. The cost can be the same for all of them, just treat them all as specialized for one field of study. Then give the shipboard labs the same bonus as the toolkit.

 

[cometyo]

I guess I'm looking at it as "the adventurous, Indiana-Jones characters are having fun overcoming physical dangers to collect data with their toolkits while the scientists in the lab are doing... what... that would be fun to play out."

 

[Anstett]

From High Guard pg 61

LABORATORY
Space allocated to laboratories can be used for research and experimentation, effectively turning the ship into a space-going science vessel.
Every four tons dedicated to laboratories space allows one scientist to perform research on board the ship. The cost for research equipment varies depending on the nature of research undertaken but is generally about MCr1 for every four tons. Refer to the Traveller Core Rulebook for scientific toolkits available.

One of the key ships in our game is the Pioneer Lab Ship, built for SCIENCE (the player always capitalizes it). A standard type L ship with 80 tons committed to research. I have ruled that the sections of the extended lab {the MCr1} is 20 different sections that can be dedicated per research type (biology, astrogation, etc). Each of those scientists has a portable kit they can take out of the lab when they are off doing the hands dirty portion of research.

examples:

• Eleni Kagaragu (Fomat) (Lead) #2
• Veronica Sherris #3 - specialist in Sophonts Culture, part time navigator (refered to by Mikhel as Nika)
• Jörn Diedrichsen #4 - specialist in molecular engineering, part time advocate
• Harold Hernandez #5 - food scientist, part time?? refuses to be a Steward
  • Five published treatises, at least two on spice control, as of 1104-364 three unpublished works in progress
• Eduardo Costa Hernández Scientist #6 - specialist in psychology, part time Astrogator
• Kilee Hörgenshon #7 - specialist in molecular engineering, part time engineer/mechanic

 

[cometyo]

From High Guard pg 61

LABORATORY
Space allocated to laboratories can be used for research and experimentation, effectively turning the ship into a space-going science vessel.
Every four tons dedicated to laboratories space allows one scientist to perform research on board the ship. The cost for research equipment varies depending on the nature of research undertaken but is generally about MCr1 for every four tons. Refer to the Traveller Core Rulebook for scientific toolkits available.

One of the key ships in our game is the Pioneer Lab Ship, built for SCIENCE (the player always capitalizes it). A standard type L ship with 80 tons committed to research. I have ruled that the sections of the extended lab {the MCr1} is 20 different sections that can be dedicated per research type (biology, astrogation, etc). Each of those scientists has a portable kit they can take out of the lab when they are off doing the hands dirty portion of research.

examples:

• Eleni Kagaragu (Fomat) (Lead) #2
• Veronica Sherris #3 - specialist in Sophonts Culture, part time navigator (refered to by Mikhel as Nika)
• Jörn Diedrichsen #4 - specialist in molecular engineering, part time advocate
• Harold Hernandez #5 - food scientist, part time?? refuses to be a Steward
  • Five published treatises, at least two on spice control, as of 1104-364 three unpublished works in progress
• Eduardo Costa Hernández Scientist #6 - specialist in psychology, part time Astrogator
• Kilee Hörgenshon #7 - specialist in molecular engineering, part time engineer/mechanic

That makes sense.

 

[cometyo]

So as I'm reviewing everyone's replies and circling around the question I posed, would it be fair say that a lab simply enables a scientist to do science tasks beyond data collection -- "No lab = no science" similarly to "no turret = no gunnery"? And what happens in the lab can be as specific or as hand-wavy as you want, but it does not automatically add any DMs aside from something similar to the toolkits?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Science - observation, measurement, pattern recognition, data logging/cataloging, hypothesis, experiment to test hypothesis, working hypotheses may lead to a law or theory (until someone comes along and disproves your work)

A lab allows for experimentation in controlled conditions, you can, after all, conduct experiments in the field...

a toolkit allows for the observation, measurement and data logging/cataloging --- testing kits, measuring devices, observation devices, collecting vessels, recording devices, data loggers...

 

[Saladman]

So as I'm reviewing everyone's replies and circling around the question I posed, would it be fair say that a lab simply enables a scientist to do science tasks beyond data collection -- "No lab = no science" similarly to "no turret = no gunnery"? And what happens in the lab can be as specific or as hand-wavy as you want, but it does not automatically add any DMs aside from something similar to the toolkits?

This is about what I do also.

 

[rinku]

Since the High Guard entry on ship Laboratories refers you to the toolkit section, I would suggest both are usually used together. That is, a toolkit on its own will allow gathering field data with a +1 to tasks; a Lab on its own allows research work. Both together allow research work with a +1 to tasks. Some of the actual tools in a toolkit may not be used in a lab, but the databases and samples collected by using it would be.

Given the low cost of the toolkits, it would also be fair to Ship's Locker them to the Labs. That is, any MCr1 per 4 ton lab will have several MCr0.001 to MCr0.004 toolkits of the appropriate type for use.