Kafers in MGT

[EDG]

Facts:

Um, not as factual as you'd think actually.

1) 2300AD was a Cyberpunk game when I started playing it in 1991 - and a darn good one at that. I enjoyed this version and actually still play it.
GDW marketing was: 2300AD: The Cyberpunk game of a dark gritty future.

Not that I recall. There was a single Earth/Cyberpunk book for 2300AD, but that was it (which actually read more like an ancestor of Transhuman Space's "Fifth Wave"). 2300AD as a whole wasn't really "cyberpunk" at all though - it was just near-future hard SF.

2) 2320AD is an ATU for Traveller T20 and is the current edition in print.

Hah, that's a laugh. First, 2320AD, as a T20 game, is dead. It got absolutely no support from QLI, and the only reason it got "printed" at all in its half-formed PDF version is that I kicked Hunter in the butt hard enough to get something out there after Colin spend a lot of time wavering about whether or not to push him to do so (given that he had by that point got paid for the work, but 2320AD was just sitting in limbo for months without actually being released). Supposedly 2320AD was going to get a full colour hardcopy version, but that fell through when Hunter decided to ignore the artists working on it and they all gave up and left. And then Colin gave up and left too, so that's that.

I suppose it's good that at least a reasonably presentable version of it got released as a PDF at all - especially given the quality of the actual text that Colin wrote - but the handling of the game and of its contributors was 100% botched by QLI.

3) There is some rumours going around of a Traveller:2300 book for Mongoose Traveller. If this was done right it would be very cool - Cyberpunk or not.

From what I gather, the stuff in 2320AD is off-limits because it's owned by QLI (and they're sure as hell not going to do anything else with it, given that they have nobody willing to write anything for it for them), which is a shame as it's damn good stuff.

Apparently there may be something in the works regarding an MGT version of something set in the 2300AD universe, but right now it's not clear what that could be. I think Colin mentioned the possibility of a 2350AD setting?

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Ok I can "Confirm" that 2300 WAS NOT a "Cyberpunk" setting at all and barely mention that stuff. Now I own mostly all the books for that game, and there is only one book that metions that stuff at all.

So if Mongoose comes up with a new setting like 2350, that would be fine.

Penn

 

[Sturn]

Why does the timeline have to be advanced to 2320 AD or 2350 AD? I would be content with just a sourcebook for MGT of 2300 AD. The old stuff in a new system. How many new 2300 AD groups are going to be made of fans that already played through the old adventures such as the Kafer Wars? If a GM has an old group that already played through the Kafer Wars and wants to advance the timeline he could do so himself.

2300 AD, not 23XX AD please. If the timeline must be advanced, then please make it 2310 AD not 2350 AD.

PS: I do own every 2300 AD book incuding the Challenge articles and it was not a Cyberpunk setting. One sourcebook and two adventures for that sourcebook was all that could be called Cyberpunk. Even the "Earth/Cybertech" sourcebook was much more about Earth in 2300 AD and had only a sprinkling of cyberpunk options for 2300 AD. Most fans from what I heard didn't like the Cyberpunk stuff that came towards the end of 2300 AD's life cycle.

 

[MongooseMatt]

2300 AD, not 23XX AD please.

That's the plan!

The only change we have looked at making (beyond the system itself) is to alter the background so it becomes a true prequel for the OTU - but that is unlikely to happen, it seems.

 

[The Chef]

Well the background history to 2300 would have to change anyway as we now have a unified Germany, Soviet Russia no longer exists and a total nuclear exchange didn't take place.

personally if it did tie in with the OTU, great, if it doesn't then thats great as well as no doubt personally i'd change it all anyway!

Chef

 

[Sturn]

The only change we have looked at making (beyond the system itself) is to alter the background so it becomes a true prequel for the OTU - but that is unlikely to happen, it seems.

That would be near impossible without making it completely anew.

1. The maps. Earth discovered the Vilani at the first world they jump to in OTU. IN 2300 AD, Earth has several colony worlds before they even discover the Kafer, let alone the later Vilani.

2. The timeline. 2088 AD discover jump drive. 2097 AD meet Vilani. That leaves 9 years for a 2300 AD campaign of colonization and alien frontiers?

3. Technology levels not compatible. 2300 AD has plasma guns. So that's TL 12? But they don't have grav vehicles that are obtained at TL 9? Etc. Easier to make up some new TL charts specifically for a 2300 AD campaign book then attempt to adapt 2300 AD to Traveller TL's.

You could try to merge the timelines, but in my opinion you would have to alter one or the other (or both!) so much that you would alienate OTU fans, or 2300 AD fans, or both.

 

[Sturn]

Well the background history to 2300 would have to change anyway as we now have a unified Germany, Soviet Russia no longer exists and a total nuclear exchange didn't take place.

It's easy enough with just a few tweeks to the timeline, pushing back a few events, etc. Altering it to fit into the OTU timeline is completely another matter (see last post).

Did 2320 AD actually keep the original timeline? I don't recall for sure.

On a side note, Twilight 2000 has been re-published as Twilight 2013. T2013 tweeked the old timeline due to time catching up to and surpassing the original campaign start date. T2000 was originally the prequel to 2300 AD. T2013's new timeline couldn't be used in a new 2300 AD history of course since it's a completely different publisher (93 Games), but it would be nice if a new version of 2300 AD didn't conflict with the new version of Twilight 2000.

 

[EDG]

I'm not interested in 2300AD - I've got it already, I don't need it in another system. 23xxAD would be much more interesting to me, especially if it could somehow extrapolate as well as 2320AD did. I guess the problem is that Colin would have to reimagine what he already did for 2320AD which may be difficult to do.

I just wish that Marc would tear away all his licenses from QLI and give all the existing rights to 2320AD to Mongoose, and then they could actually do it justice.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I just wish that Marc would tear away all his licenses from QLI and give all the existing rights to 2320AD to Mongoose, and then they could actually do it justice.

I may be wrong, but I believe all that ends, literally, tomorrow. . .

 

[GJD]

I am interested in a MGT 2300AD, but not as an OTU prequel. That's what GT:IW is for IMHO.

Currently designing a skirmish campaign for Future War Conmmander set on Aurore Tanstaafl RAMROD teams vs Kafer mobs.... Yummy.

G.

 

[EDG]

I just wish that Marc would tear away all his licenses from QLI and give all the existing rights to 2320AD to Mongoose, and then they could actually do it justice.

I may be wrong, but I believe all that ends, literally, tomorrow. . .

Really? I thought they had their Traveller license til 2011? If what you say is true then that would be totally awesome.

 

[Colin]

I just wish that Marc would tear away all his licenses from QLI and give all the existing rights to 2320AD to Mongoose, and then they could actually do it justice.

I may be wrong, but I believe all that ends, literally, tomorrow. . .

That is fascinating...

 

[Colin]

Did 2320 AD actually keep the original timeline? I don't recall for sure.

Sort of. 2320 kinda glossed over the whole Twilight War thing, stating that it had occurred in the early 21st century, and leaving it at that.

I have toyed with the idea of making the Twilight War the fallout of a catastrophic asteroid impact. This explains why space technology is so advanced compared to other technologies.

 

[Colin]

Hah, that's a laugh. First, 2320AD, as a T20 game, is dead. It got absolutely no support from QLI, and the only reason it got "printed" at all in its half-formed PDF version is that I kicked Hunter in the butt hard enough to get something out there after Colin spend a lot of time wavering about whether or not to push him to do so (given that he had by that point got paid for the work, but 2320AD was just sitting in limbo for months without actually being released). Supposedly 2320AD was going to get a full colour hardcopy version, but that fell through when Hunter decided to ignore the artists working on it and they all gave up and left. And then Colin gave up and left too, so that's that.

Not entirely correct. I went to Marc on at least three occasions. Each time I did, QLI briefly rose from the dead. I even offered to buy 2320AD back, and got no response. We had some amazing stuff in the works, my colour maps and vehicles, some new equipment by Bryan Gibson, Laurent Esmiol's starships, Ted Lindsey's layout, guns, armour, and vehicles, Steff Worthington's logos, Jonathan Pearson's ROTONS and missiles, and likely some others whom I am forgetting. My apologies.

Apparently there may be something in the works regarding an MGT version of something set in the 2300AD universe, but right now it's not clear what that could be. I think Colin mentioned the possibility of a 2350AD setting?

Not me. Others suggested it. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but I think that it drifts too far from the source

My whole rationale for writing 2320, as opposed to 2300 for Traveller D20, was so that I could bring something new to the table in terms of the 2300AD Universe.

 

[Sturn]

Really? I thought they had their Traveller license til 2011? If what you say is true then that would be totally awesome.

I'm with what he said.

I think Colin mentioned the possibility of a 2350AD setting?

Not me. Others suggested it. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but I think that it drifts too far from the source

My whole rationale for writing 2320, as opposed to 2300 for Traveller D20, was so that I could bring something new to the table in terms of the 2300AD Universe.

I wouldn't want a 2350 AD either. I still want to see Kangaroo APCs, the Tanstaafl Free Legion, etc in existance. If you move it forward too far, it wouldn't make sense for some of these things to still be around. Twenty years, sure, fifty no. Yes you can find an obscure Third World country somewhere using a Sherman tank, but it would be a rarity considered an antique. Twenty years in retrospect is not too much I guess. M1 Tanks and M16 rifles are over 20 years old and still issued even if updated. If the "old" 2300 AD stuff is still included along with new stuff, a referee wanting to play out the 2302 AD Kafer War could still do so without having to create his own equipment lists.

 

[EDG]

Not entirely correct. I went to Marc on at least three occasions.

My bad, I just looked over the thread in question on CotI again and I was misremembering the sequence of events. What happened was that we were all sitting around waiting for Hunter (who was AWOL as usual), and I was complaining about how nothing was moving, and then that spurred you into emailing Marc and getting it moving again. Hunter miraculously showed up not long after, with not a word of explanation or apology, and a lot of unprofessionalism and bad attitude.

We had some amazing stuff in the works, my colour maps and vehicles, some new equipment by Bryan Gibson, Laurent Esmiol's starships, Ted Lindsey's layout, guns, armour, and vehicles, Steff Worthington's logos, Jonathan Pearson's ROTONS and missiles, and likely some others whom I am forgetting. My apologies.

All of which went up in smoke (at least for 2320AD) when Hunter ignored everyone. At least the creators of those works retained the rights to them though.

I really hope that what Matt said was true. It's high time that QLI lost its licenses. (heck, it lost several because of its inactivity anyway - Honor Harrington and Posleen spring to mind).

 

[The Chef]

a referee wanting to play out the 2302 AD Kafer War could still do so without having to create his own equipment lists.

Funny i'm doing that right now. Setting up a TL11 expanding human zone, just in one sector (like the collapsed impirium idea presented elsewhere (thanks Golan)). Just got the idea of a exploritory mission into a developing subsector suddenly running into a slightly advanced Vah (the real name of the ones whose name causes contraversy).

Putting in things like grav tech (didn't like hover anyway), and a more united earth organisation (not the balkanized societies of 2300, which fits in with my personal perspective of humanity's future)

well thats the idea so far

chef

 

[Gamerguy]

8)

What I said was GDW Marketed 2300AD as a Cyberpunk RPG in 1991.

Here is what I have in my hand right now - a catalog from GDW published in 1991 that has a page selling 2300AD RPG material.

It has a picture of a woman netrunner and she is part machine, part human and she is hacking into a mainframe.

The Title is "2300AD - the Cyberpunk RPG of a dark gritty future."

When I got this catalog - I bought 2300AD complete and played it this way. And had fun doing it.

I've heard that the Earth/Cybertech sourcebook sold very well.

I myself loved the following:

1) Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook - best information on what is Cyberpunk I've ever bought. Also contains a great Cyberpunk adventure.

2) Rotten To the Core - a great Cyberpunk adventure, lots of good information and well illustrated.

3) Deathwatch Program - another great Cyberpunk adventure I've played many times:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=109&affiliate_id=11763

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=422&it=1

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=60279

Anyway, I'm sure 2300AD is many games to many people, I did like Colin's 2320AD and though it was a bargin well worth buying. It was released half-baked, but it was released as a .pdf at a good price.
It is HUGE too - one of the biggest RPG books I've ever bought.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=25925&it=1

 

[EDG]

8)

What I said was GDW Marketed 2300AD as a Cyberpunk RPG in 1991.

Here is what I have in my hand right now - a catalog from GDW published in 1991 that has a page selling 2300AD RPG material.

Ah, right. That's because GDW decided to do a marketing switcheroo near the end of the game's run and shift the focus of 2300AD to cyberpunk instead of hard-SF. But it didn't have that focus before that point.

The 2300AD wiki page says this:

Finally, the authors added a Cyberpunk campaign to the game with the publication of the "Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook"[1] and two adventures for the same, "Deathwatch" and "Rotten to the Core" contemporaneous with the Cyberpunk fad of the 1990s. GDW catalogs advertized the game as "2300 AD - the Cyberpunk game of a Dark Gritty Future". The Earth/Cyberpunk Sourcebook states that Cyberpunk can be a fringe element in any society, it's members being "Cyberpunk" because they like it, similar to the Goths of today. References to such works as Neuromancer or Blade Runner inevitably appear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2300_AD

 

[Sturn]

What I said was GDW Marketed 2300AD as a Cyberpunk RPG in 1991...

The Title is "2300AD - the Cyberpunk RPG of a dark gritty future."....

I myself loved the following:

1) Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook - best information on what is Cyberpunk I've ever bought. Also contains a great Cyberpunk adventure.

2) Rotten To the Core - a great Cyberpunk adventure, lots of good information and well illustrated.

3) Deathwatch Program - another great Cyberpunk adventure I've played many times:

And here are the rest of the official books (not including the core books) that weren't cyberpunk:

Star Cruiser
Aurore Sourcebook
Colonial Atlas
Equipment Guide
Ground Vehicle Guide
Invasion
Kafer Sourcebook
Nyotekundu Sourcebook
Ships of the French Arm
Bayern
Beanstalk
Energy Curve
Kafer Dawn
Mission Arcturus
Ranger

2300AD went cyberpunk at the very end. The line came to an end right after it went cyberpunk.

Yes I agree it can be many games to different gamers. I did in fact use some of the cyberpunk stuff. But, I think it should still be considered a hard sci-fi military RPG, not a cyberpunk RPG since only 2.5 out of 18 sourcebooks had that slant.